New toy just crossed the US border! Marantz SA-7S1

treitz3

It has been some time since I made any advances with my sources. The last one was the final (for now) acquisition of a Jolida JD-9 MKII to complete my vinyl rig and get it back up and running after a 5 year hiatus.

The Jolida JD-100 CDP has been one of 40 or so CDP's that I have had throughout my lifetime. It was the only one that stayed in my rig and made it past the two year mark. It's actually been my main source for I'm guessing 7 years now. Even sold an brand new Rega Apollo to aquire the Jolida. It's just a tried and true CDP that never misses a beat and is a great performer. I thank F1nut for his suggestion to get the Jolida CDP. It has served me well over the years in the main rig. While it needs no introduction to this forum, for those that do not know what it looks like, here is a photo;



I have only had 2 SACD players. Both of them being the once famous around these parts Denon DVD-2910. Both of them ended up being expensive door stops. The first one quit playing altogether and the second one plays whenever it feels like it. Grrrr. The 2910 plays SACD's very well but I overwhelmingly preferred RB on the Jolida. I had both the black and silver versions as seen below;



So, as time marched on and the rest of my rig improved, the sources remained the same. Albeit with the loss of reliable SACD and the recent completion of the vinyl rig. I feel at this point in my rig's audio journey that the source has become the weak link in the system. Yeah, I'll improve the vinyl rig over the next decade or 4 but the digital side? Yeah, something has to improve and it has to be now. No more waiting.

I didn't feel like getting two dedicated players and I'm not made of money so I made the decision to look at a unit that could do SACD and CD, both of them exceedingly well. Not just one or the other. I miss listening to my SACD collection at a whim.

Soooo.....

I just so happened to check out the 'Gon last week. Looked at some options I had considered over the years and found a Reference Series Marantz SA-7S1. I read just about every review available online over the course of 3 days and while I normally do not buy any gear for my rig without hearing it first? The extreme lack of negative comments along with a plethora of positive commentary across the board made me pull the trigger. Here's what she looks like;



I'll be honest. While I have had many a CDP, I have never had one of this caliber. Heard them in my travels but never one like this in my own rig. The Jolida was my reference. I am hoping that the reviews and discussions with current owners of this player are accurate. If so, I should be in for a treat. While I had been eying the Esoterics, my wallet started laughing at my thoughts and this was, IMO, a decent choice.

She just crossed the Canadian border through customs and I had to deal with the bonds, POA and all that "stuff" but she's finally in the US and headed my way! Should be here by next Friday.

Looking forward to listening to some of my cherished SACD's again....as well as a completely new presentation for RB. Should be interesting. All I can say is that I hope and pray that I made a wise decision.

Just out of curiosity, has anybody on this forum heard one or own one? if so, I would appreciate any observations you may have to share....even if it is negative.

Tom

Mike Reeter

Tom, While I've not had ears on your model Marantz, I would imagine it will take something of its caliber to knock over the JD-100.

I still have my Jolida in the mix, It's the only piece that has survived the past ten years, everything else has been replaced at least once.

I'm sure you are excited!

treitz3

Mike Reeter wrote: »

Tom, While I've not had ears on your model Marantz, I would imagine it will take something of its caliber to knock over the JD-100.

Agreed and yes, I am excited. With reservations but still excited.

I love the tenth row sound of the Jolida so much, it will be yet another piece of gear I am assembling for my first secondary rig.

Tom

tratliff

Tom -

I have not spent any time with the SA-7s1 but recently purchased a SA-14s1 from DSkip. I have been really impressed with the performance of the player on both CD, SACD and USB Dac. A great upgrade from my Oppo.

I had also considered the SA-10 and Esoteric 05. I really wanted one but could not fit it in the budget at this point.

I am really happy with the purchase and this has allowed me to start focusing on other items within the system that I would of had to delay if a purchase of the SA-10 or Esoteric were made.

I think you will enjoy your new player. Congrats.

erniejade

Beautiful player!. I haven't heard one but I did have the jolida for a ling time and it took a lot to surpass the jolida redbook vs a lot of other players sacd. For myself, it took a tube sacd to make the playing field more even.

I have to admit I like the looks of that Marantz better then the Jolida!

treitz3

tratliff wrote: »

I have not spent any time with the SA-7s1 but recently purchased a SA-14s1 from DSkip.

First off, thanks for the congrat's. Secondly, I was eying the one you bought like a hawk.......almost pulled the trigger but. S happened.

Congrat's to you as well sir!

I had considered the Oppo (whatever, even upgraded) but.....eh, the sound from a very older model didn't really grab any attention from me. Only negative thoughts when directly compared to the Jolida on the same system.

While I can't say for a fact that Oppo has improved considerably since then, especially when moving up on models and upgrade packages offered, I just had a severe reservation toward them based upon my initial observations. The empirical evidence should have swayed me toward their newest, latest and greatest but honestly, it's all fluff to me.

The fluff is what had me taking so long for a decision on which route to take with my new source. I haven't bought anything sight un"heard"/"seen" for my system in so long, I was apprehensive to pull the trigger on anything.

This player, for some reason, gets more positive praise on almost all aspects than any other SACD/CD combo player I had researched. Yeah, it may not be a Burmester or an Esoteric but at my price point? It worked and it was something that I could try now, not 5 or 10 years from now.

What struck me was the lack of negative commentary. The main thing that folks reviewing or pointed out is that the mis-bass was a little lean. Hmmm, this got me to thinking....

Many times when the mid-bass is "considered" lean (I have found out through my travels), it's because it's not filled with overponderance. It's not overwhelming. It doesn't mask the other frequencies that (as a whole) make up the sound stage. It may not be what they are used to hearing but it is more.....shall I say, accurate in its portrayal of the reproductive effort.

I learned this with the Transparent Reference IC's I outfitted the rig with. What I thought was a room issue, turned out to be a cable issue. The Transparent's eliminated the excess mid-bass, which in turn provided me with exceptional detail elsewhere because the music wasn't being masked by the mid-bass.

People get used to their Cerwin Vega mega-bass and that's what they prefer. Not me.

So the one thing that was touched on negatively with this player is something I am actually looking forward too. Folks touch on this Marantz being 10th row. Oh, dear lawd, I do hope they are right. I got rid of the Rega Apollo because I was sitting in the first row and the singers were "in my face".

Yeah, that lost all of the "depth" I worked so hard to achieve.....so it had to move on.

Tom

lightman1

You've been usung those transparent IC for ten years. It's about time to move up.
Stop saying so many words, Tom.

lightman1

You shoulda got an SA-11??? Transport

treitz3

erniejade wrote: »

Beautiful player!. I haven't heard one but I did have the jolida for a ling time and it took a lot to surpass the jolida redbook vs a lot of other players sacd. For myself, it took a tube sacd to make the playing field more even.

This was a MAJOR factor for me. The Marantz is tube free. Yeah, it's got shielding, footers, clocks and a DAC that for most? Is to die for.

For me? Ah 5h!t son!

NO TUBES!

I took a major gamble with this unit. It wasn't cheap and shipping for this beast @ 60 pounds across the Canuck border wasn't cheap for either party either but.....

With risk comes a possible reward.

Hopefully for me, it will be sonically.

Tom

treitz3

Shut up Russ.

Tom

F1nut

You're not going to miss tubes with a Marantz.

treitz3

I have no reason to doubt you on that Jesse. It is a little reassuring that you relayed that to me. I really like the 12AX7Ei Gold pins and losing the tubes was a major concern of mine.

Anyhoo...I figured that while I was waiting on the Marantz to arrive, I would go ahead and update those who are interested with where my rig is currently at. The following is in a dedicated stereo room with over 700 CD's and 800 LP's, many of which are audiophile grade tracks/selections.

PS - Richard Grey 400Pro Power Supply to -

CDP - Jolida JD100 CDP with 2ea. 12AX7Ei Gold Pins, tube dampers (Soon to be the Marantz Reference Series SA-7S1), Rick's Sorbothane risers, Nerve Audio PC and Transparent Reference IC's to -

TT - Music Hall MMF-5 w/ Goldring 1012Gx cart, Joe's "The Clamp", isolation footing, the 25th Anniversary Edition Nitty Gritty DS Record Cleaning Machine in Jatoba finish and optional smoked acrylic cover. The "Shark" steam cleaner for additional cleaning effectiveness and superior LP playback performance. Jolida JD9 MarkII tubed phono pre w/ Tung Sol Gold-Pin 12AX7 Tubes, Analysis Plus Power Oval 10 PC and Transparent Reference IC's to -

PRE - Dodd Audio MLP tubed pre-amplifier with custom wood remote and 4ea. 12AX7Ei Gold-Pins, isolation footings w/ custom cord to separate PS and pre. and from RG 400Pro to PS w/ Transparent Reference IC's to -

AMP - Musical Fidelity AC3r Dual Mono SS amplifier w/ PS Audio Prelude PC, AudioQuest CV-8's that have the 72v battery pack upgrade to -

CROSSOVER - As mentioned, the crosssovers have been removed from the cabinets. A custom cabinet enclosure was manufactured to hold three levels of crossover components. 1st level, the original crossovers that came with the speakers. 2nd level, the tweeter network with all VR3 Abott series upgrades (his top tier line). 3rd level, bass and mid-bass network. This is actually two crossover networks in one enclosure so we can very rapidly change from the original crossovers that came with the speakers to the upgraded crossovers. Custom aircraft aluminum chassis, powder coated black and spiked w/ custom cord to speakers and NL4 connections to -

SPEAKERS - Tyler Acoustics Lynbrook Signature Series one piece towers in Ribbon Mahogany, spiked and on 1-1/4" hardwood plinths. The speakers have been completely disassembled and rebuilt/finished from the ground up, resealed, damping material added, crossovers removed from the cabinet. Also, upgraded wiring, back plate and NL4 connector that connects back to the crossover networks.

SUBS - Stereo set of Tyler Acoustic custom subs, each with 500w plate amps, spiked, Target stands that are also spiked w/ AQ King Cobra IC's and MIT "Y" splitter cables coming from the MF AC3r.

Well, that is my system as of right now. I left out the BSG QOL because it isn't currently hooked up. I will be installing 3 or 4 dedicated 20 amp lines within the year and will address improving incoming power flow/purity after they are installed. For now, the incoming seems clean and the Richard Grey Pro 400 helps with demanding transients.

I will also be losing the 2 Tyler Acoustic subs that I got from Trey (Sid the Kid) and getting within the next couple of months a pair of Rythmik Audio F25 Servo subs to put on the Target stands. These will each have a pair of 15' subs in a sealed cabinet with an 800w servo plate amp and will address my gripes with the Tyler subs. I miss the old VMPS Larger. That was a great sub! Low, accurate, musical, impactful, quick, and very detailed. The servo subs should easily top the VMPS so my bottom end will be back up to my own personal par.

After that, I will be on the hunt for a Musical Fidelity (the model number escapes me right now) 750w amplifier, dual mono with separate power supply chassis. I almost pulled the trigger on one 5 months ago but "..it" happened and was not able to go through with the transaction. They pop up only about once a year on the 'Gon, so I will just have to wait for one of them in mint condition to show up.

At that point, I think I'll be done with the exception of the vinyl rig improvements here and there and minor tweaking of PC's. As it sounds right now, I don't need to do a thing but tighten up the lowest of registers a wee bit. Most folks who come in have no issues with it but I did get spoiled by the VMPS Larger and after you heard something that precise, it's hard to go back to something slower with less "umph", so to speak. There is not much I regret letting go over the years but the VMPS was one of them.

Tom

HzTweaker

treitz3 wrote: »

CROSSOVER - As mentioned, the crosssovers have been removed from the cabinets. A custom cabinet enclosure was manufactured to hold three levels of crossover components. 1st level, the original crossovers that came with the speakers. 2nd level, the tweeter network with all VR3 Abott series upgrades (his top tier line). 3rd level, bass and mid-bass network. This is actually two crossover networks in one enclosure so we can very rapidly change from the original crossovers that came with the speakers to the upgraded crossovers. Custom aircraft aluminum chassis, powder coated black and spiked w/ custom cord to speakers and NL4 connections to -


Tom

I'd like to see a photo of the crossovers.^^

mikeyb128

A photo of your setup would be awesome too. I love seeing other members systems.

pitdogg2

Nice piece Tom. Just go ahead send it to me I'll break it in for you

BlueFox

Gorgeous piece of kit (love that word). I love the color. I could live with a rack full of gear that color. Hope it lives up to its appearance. Good luck.

treitz3

HzTweaker wrote:

I'd like to see a photo of the crossovers.

They were originally gonna be placed into these boxes. We quickly discovered they could not fit. It was simply impossible. At that point, we knew we had to go custom.



The below shot is a teaser of just the upgraded mid-lower network of the Tyler's...



This is just one shelf of the three. COMPLETELY different from the stock network Ty provided originally with the speakers.


The above is a stock photo of the speakers.

Here is a picture of the speakers years ago, refinished and brought back home...


This was many, many moons ago and before the speakers were sent to Trey to begin the 3 year journey/transformation.

More later......

Tom

mikeyb128

Wow... very nice!

treitz3

The picture below is the entire original crossover that came with the speaker, enclosed within the original speaker cabinet. This was removed and placed on the bottom level of the current crossover enclosure outside of the speaker.

The following picture was taken after the crossover was removed from the speaker cabinet and was being placed on the Delrin plate, while being rewired prior to going into the new crossover enclosure.

tonyb

sweet Tom.....you put some coin into those. New subs, chasing a MF big boy amp....nice man. No wonder you've never left the country, your afraid someone might steal your sheet while your gone.

treitz3

Thanks for the kind words gentlemen. A lot of planning, thought and as Tony had mentioned, coin. At this point, every penny spent has been worth it. All of the patience and time to get to where I am at now was worth it and I honestly could live with this system as-is for the rest of my life.

The gripes I have have now with my rig are minuscule, nit-picky type things that even I don't really care about....but this is still my hobby and I do feel that there is still room for more improvement. Also new toys and tinkering are always fun!

Here are some more pics of the crossovers during their construction...

Original crossovers on the lower tray


Upgraded tweeter network on 2nd tray


Upgraded mid and bass network on top tray


As you can see, all 3 trays pull out of the enclosure via ball bearing drawer slides


Here's a pic of the completed internal wiring (sorry for the weird camera angle)


Now for reference, this is how big these crossover enclosures are. What looks to be a subwoofer enclosure is actually the crossover enclosure. They are 21"x21"x2' in width with the feet off to the side included on width. The spikes had not been added yet and this is not it's permanent location. The photo was taken for size reference only.



The estimated weight of the crossover enclosures is currently around 80 or so pounds each, They were designed to have either 1/2" wood panels to match the speakers or 1/2" Granite slabs on the sides of the two crossover enclosures. This would add more weight to the enclosures and the theory is that the added weight would improve unwanted vibrations from affecting the components of the crossovers.

Tom

txcoastal1

Nice Tom, I like the direction you are heading into.

Have you had much communication with Enrico(Rhythmic audio) about integrating the subs?

Will you possibly be using the miniDSP DDCR-88A ?

--Cheers
Ron

mikeyb128

Impressive work here. I love it! Too bad all that gorgeous work is hidden in a box. A true work of art.

treitz3

Good morning Ron. I haven't talked to Enrico about anything yet. I ran across a very ugly servo sub at this year's Carverfest. It was a dual 15" that had minimal adjustments (IE. power, slope and volume) and we had it hooked up to a bi-amped pair of Apogee Centaurus speakers. I sat back and dialed it in with a buddy of mine doing the legwork/adjustments. We had it dialed in within 5 minutes and left it alone for the rest of the week. It was simply well blended with extremely easy set up.

The #1 comment on that rig from the folks that strolled in was how well the sub blended to the room and to the mains. I say that not because I did the set up, I say it because the Servo sub we used performed so well. It was just one ugly arse sub that did a fantastic job! I was immediately very impressed with this sub, something that rarely ever happens. I forget what brand it was, all I know is that it was ugly. The Rythmik's aren't a...shall I say...beautiful sub but they sure do look better than the ugly we had at last years event.

I am honestly expecting the Rythmik's to be the same. If not, they have a plethora of adjustments. If I read their website correctly, I think this is the plate amp that will come with the F25.



If I can not dial them in, then I have a Velodyne SMS-1 down in Atlanta that I can reintroduce into the rig to help out but I'm trying to avoid going that route as it's additional componentry added into the chain. I like to KISS. If push comes to shove, I will reintroduce the SMS-1 and if that doesn't work? I'll entertain the thought of another DSP.

It all depends on how they blend with the rig when they get here.

Tom

tonyb

How did you like those Apogee's ? Was one of my favorite ribbon speakers back when, liked them better than Maggies. With the right subwoofers, they can sound darn good.

Irrenhaus

treitz3 wrote: »

Good morning Ron. I haven't talked to Enrico about anything yet. I ran across a very ugly servo sub at this year's Carverfest. It was a dual 15" that had minimal adjustments (IE. power, slope and volume) and we had it hooked up to a bi-amped pair of Apogee Centaurus speakers. I sat back and dialed it in with a buddy of mine doing the legwork/adjustments. We had it dialed in within 5 minutes and left it alone for the rest of the week. It was simply well blended with extremely easy set up.

The #1 comment on that rig from the folks that strolled in was how well the sub blended to the room and to the mains. I say that not because I did the set up, I say it because the Servo sub we used performed so well. It was just one ugly arse sub that did a fantastic job! I was immediately very impressed with this sub, something that rarely ever happens. I forget what brand it was, all I know is that it was ugly. The Rythmik's aren't a...shall I say...beautiful sub but they sure do look better than the ugly we had at last years event.

I am honestly expecting the Rythmik's to be the same. If not, they have a plethora of adjustments. If I read their website correctly, I think this is the plate amp that will come with the F25.



If I can not dial them in, then I have a Velodyne SMS-1 down in Atlanta that I can reintroduce into the rig to help out but I'm trying to avoid going that route as it's additional componentry added into the chain. I like to KISS. If push comes to shove, I will reintroduce the SMS-1 and if that doesn't work? I'll entertain the thought of another DSP.

It all depends on how they blend with the rig when they get here.

Tom

Hi there, I have the F25 on my ring and that is the plate of the amplifier. I used for movies and music. I have to say I am very happy with how well it performs (is not pretty). The combination last night for music was a Tube Pre, Parasound amp and Marantz SA8005.

switching between Klipsch Heresy and Linn Keilidh.

Cheers

treitz3

The Apogees were overall one of the best sounding speakers I have heard for presentation. I heard them down at Jerry's place a couple of years ago and was not impressed at all. We had them hooked up to a small custom tube amp that Bob Carver designed and we built at a Carverfest a couple of years back. They sounded like they needed more "umph" to get them up and going.

Fast forward to the same speakers that was part of the main rig featured system in our cabin. This time we had it bi-amped to a Sunfire 600x2 and a TFM-55, switches set to low on the Apogees, if memory serves me correctly. We had my vinyl rig, Jerry's Jolida JD-100, the ugly arse servo sub and an Audible Illusions pre-amp.

Complete game changer on this rig. They came to life and sounded like I hadn't heard them sound before. They were located in an acoustical nightmare, which most systems are at CF. At least we are all on the same level of bad acoustics. Anyhoo, they were in the living room area of the cabin with log walls, a 30 ft ceiling, stone fireplace to one side and open on the other until you got to the stairs which led up to the loft that started about 15' in front of the system.

Armed with that information, here are my observations.

Overall, one of the best sounding presentations I have heard out of a speaker. Definitely the 2nd best ribbon speaker I have ever heard. The top spot goes to an older model of the Genesis Prime1 (the big boys within the Genesis lineup). They threw a sound stage that was to die for, much better than an MBL and the sizes of the singers/instruments were appropriate, not exaggerated, bloated or incoherent. It was just right. Everything was were it was supposed to be and the sound extended beyond the fireplace as if it wasn't there at all.

The top end was a little relaxed on the uppermost extensions, like most ribbon speakers tend to do but this ribbon was IMO special. There were no "tsst, tsst, tsst" moments, plenty of natural roll off with chimes, cymbals, etc and a very natural reproductive effort. The mid-range was impressive, to say the least. Many speakers would never be able to achieve the fluid midrange these presented, regardless of the gear upstream.

When it comes to the mid bass, mid bass punch and lower frequencies? This is where the speaker fell short all by itself. It was, shall we say, slow and un-impactful in those areas. Yes, they seemed to blend decently to the ribbons but this area is where my biggest gripe came from. They could hit a Tom-hat (not on a busy or heavy passage) and it would be barely noticeable. Very little impact and I found this to be disappointing and most definitely a deficiency that these speakers had.

When we engaged the sub, the system as a whole took on a very, very nice sounding system. Accepting what the limitations of the speakers were, I simply disregarded what it lacked in the mid-bass department. I'm not saying that it was horrible, it just wasn't up to par with where I felt it should be for a speaker of it's caliber.

We were there for more than a week and although there were 25 or more systems set up at the event, I only made it out to hear less than half of them. I honestly did not want to leave that system. Jerry, Niki and I played album after album, switched to digital and the next thing you know, 5 hours had passed.

Zero listening fatigue.

I was a little shocked when I came home to my system that, at the time, did not have the crossover upgrade yet. Man, did it ever sound so small compared to the Apogees. The crossovers corrected this issue but I'll be honest, there are some aspects of the sound stage presentation that my speakers will never be able to do. There are some aspects of the presentation that the Apogees will never be able to do. I guess it comes down to a choice of which one somebody would prefer.

To sum my observations up? The apogee Centaurus' are a very good speaker that if I had the coin for, would be a top contender for a secondary rig (with an appropriate sub of course).

Tom

tonyb

Your observations pretty much mirror mine, and most others too. Most ribbons in that style can't do bass very well, and I'm not talking Carver Amazings, that's a different animal altogether. A pair of subs is needed imho with speakers like those Apogees....but yeah, they certainly threw a presentation that sticks in your brain. If I recall, they dipped below 2 ohms too and were not an easy load for light of foot amps.

Anyway, sorry for the slight derail, just wanted to get your .02 on the Apogees. Rock on with your bad self.

treitz3

While the Carver Amazings did better on the mids and bass? They do not hold a candle to the Apogees IMO. The ribbon Mr. Carver used ruined that speaker IME. FYI, Bob Carver's favorite speaker (admitted by him at the event as well as documented prior too) is the one we had featured at the event. As soon as he heard it, he immediately scrambled back to his cabin to tweak his current ALS speakers to mimic the sound that emanated from the Apogees.

Jerry's system was widely accepted as "best in show", although we do not hold competitions like that at CF.

Tom

mikeyb128

Any news on this? Looking forward to your thoughts on this as compared to your tubed disc player.

treitz3

It's somewhere in Charlotte on a Fed-Ex truck. Scheduled for delivery today.

Tom