LCR meter, advice needed

littlewoodboats
littlewoodboats Posts: 823
in Electronics
Could someone suggest what a hobbiest should look for when buying their first LCR meter?

I have two projects I want to do. The first will be to recreate from scratch new crossovers for a butchered pair of 3.1TL's. Second will be the full rebuild of my Yamaha CA 1000.

I would prefer a bench type as I have a dedicated spot where I do my soldering and battery pack welding. If I can get something with full multi meter functions in one unit it would make life easier. Thanks for any advice.
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Comments

  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,804
    edited February 2017
    So, I cannot help vis-a-vis LCR meters; I do have one, but it was a legacy from my father. It is what it is.

    I do have two comments that (ahem) I think are worth sharing.

    1. If (if!) you ever expect to be doing rehab work on equipment using high voltage power supplies (ahem, vacuum tube amplifiers ahem) it is worth seeking out a rehabbed vintage capacitor tester (e.g., a Heathkit, EICO, etc.). These can test HV capacitors under more realistic conditions (high voltage) than the modern meters and can even be used to reform capacitors.

    2. Get an ESR meter, too. Again, for rehab work, the 'culprit' is often high ESR in aging capacitors.

    FWIW -- While I could see value in an LCR meter to determine, e.g., the inductance of an unknown coil, I otherwise see them as somewhat superfluous.

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  • littlewoodboats
    littlewoodboats Posts: 823
    Thanks for the input. Is there an all in one solution available that does not cost what I paid for my truck? I am not opposed to buying a used piece but that can be hit or miss for condition and accuracy.

    I would like to be able to take on the odd rehab project here and there but still have much to learn.
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  • rpf65
    rpf65 Posts: 2,127
    If your looking for a good multimeter, which should work for the vast majority of projects, I would recommend the Fluke 179.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,804
    edited February 2017
    rpf65 wrote: »
    If your looking for a good multimeter, which should work for the vast majority of projects, I would recommend the Fluke 179.

    That looks like a fine meter (still hard to beat Fluke, AFAIK). True RMS is a big plus -- but it doesn't measure inductance.
    http://en-us.fluke.com/products/digital-multimeters/fluke-179-digital-multimeter.html#techspecs

    An inducto-meter (Henryometer?) would be a handy thing to have.
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  • littlewoodboats
    littlewoodboats Posts: 823
    edited February 2017
    rpf65 wrote: »
    If your looking for a good multimeter, which should work for the vast majority of projects, I would recommend the Fluke 179.

    I have multimeters. I have my dads AW Sperry 160 that I dearly love using. A tech buddy helped me go through it and calibrate.

    I also have a Fluke imitator DMM branded Goldstar I bought 20 years ago from Altex for portable that coveres every basic function including diodes.

    If anyone asks if I have a meter they can borrow I have a basic Craftsman DMM the wife got for 2 bucks at a yard sale.

    An ESR meter with Henryometer capabilities would foot the bill. The reason for wanting an all in one if possible is to reduce clutter and make life easy. Plugging in over batteries is a plus as well.

    As a young squidlett I made rate as an Interior Communications Electrician (ICE team) so have good meter skills up to my paygrade.
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  • agfrost
    agfrost Posts: 2,428
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    An inducto-meter (Henryometer?) would be a handy thing to have.

    I usually just eyeball it:

    1 Henry:
    waymoxqcqo9a.png


    2 Henries:
    xw7kiky3ed7s.png


    1 millihenry:
    v0e0wlqs1fq1.png

    Jay
    SDA 2BTL * Musical Fidelity A5cr amp * Oppo BDP-93 * Modded Adcom GDA-600 DAC * Rythmik F8 (x2)
    Micro Seiki DQ-50 * Hagerman Cornet 2 Phono * A hodgepodge of cabling * Belkin PF60
    Preamp rotation: Krell KSL (SCompRacer recapped) * Manley Shrimp * PS Audio 5.0
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  • littlewoodboats
    littlewoodboats Posts: 823
    So how many of your henries does it take to equal the bass inductor in a 3.1tl?

    Does a full function multi purpose bench meter even exist?
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  • littlewoodboats
    littlewoodboats Posts: 823
    Why does the multi meter have to be digital? B) I think one of the reasons I like using dads old Sperry is most people have no idea what it is telling them.

    I do understand what you are saying in the DMM does provide function the Sperry does not.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,804
    A DMM is (usually) more precise than a VTVM, not necessarily more acccurate, though.

    accuracy-vs-precision.jpg

    Lots of readable digits on a DMM, but how right the answer is might be another matter entirely.

    The nice thing about a VTVM (or a good VOM,for that matter) is it allows one to see trends if something is changing with time. It's also easier to see a "pulse" event on a VTVM or VOM than a normal digital display (depending, of course, on the meter ballistics).

    I like to use a VTVM (there are a couple of 'em here, including my father's), but I'll confess that I usually use a DMM -- because it's handier.
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  • littlewoodboats
    littlewoodboats Posts: 823
    edited February 2017
    @yep2 I get that and agree. In all honesty I am getting old and prefer the need for user input. One of the reasons for buying the Goldstar over the Fluke (73 something if I remember correctly) was the Goldstar did not auto range and still had a dial for function and range.

    Call me a geezer but I like what I like.
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  • littlewoodboats
    littlewoodboats Posts: 823
    edited February 2017
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    A DMM is (usually) more precise than a VTVM, not necessarily more acccurate, though.

    accuracy-vs-precision.jpg

    Lots of readable digits on a DMM, but how right the answer is might be another matter entirely.

    The nice thing about a VTVM (or a good VOM,for that matter) is it allows one to see trends if something is changing with time. It's also easier to see a "pulse" event on a VTVM or VOM than a normal digital display (depending, of course, on the meter ballistics).

    I like to use a VTVM (there are a couple of 'em here, including my father's), but I'll confess that I usually use a DMM -- because it's handier.

    You tell em doc! I use the digital for anything not on my bench out of ease of use.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,804
    edited February 2017
    autoranging digital's even better for folks lazy as me ;)

    (although the DMM I usually use, an old Radio Shack, has manual range-setting, which I actually somewhat prefer so that I can choose my own degree of resolution for the readout)

    This is the one I usually use for routine stuff (checking for DC on direct coupled ss amplifiers, continuity, stuff like that). The one on the top right, "new for 88" :)

    125.jpg
    source (of course): www.radioshackcatalogs.com (1988)
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  • littlewoodboats
    littlewoodboats Posts: 823
    edited February 2017
    Yep2 wrote: »
    Fast peak min-max?
    DMM all the way...
    It is 2017 you know?

    Whippersnapper! :D

    Just kidding I do appreciate your input.

    D*mn doc! I had that same meter for years. I dig the old add pages
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,804
    speaking of autoranging -- it'd be really cool to have one of these in working condition.

    286.jpg
    source: www.alliedcatalogs.com (1961)
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  • pkquat
    pkquat Posts: 748
    B+K Precision 879B with ESR has been recommended. One place I worked at sent their previous model out for calibration checks ever 2 years, it never needed any adjustment.

    http://www.bkprecision.com/products/component-testers/879B-40000-count-dual-display-handheld-lcr-meter-with-esr.html
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  • stevep
    stevep Posts: 335
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    This is the one I usually use for routine stuff (checking for DC on direct coupled ss amplifiers, continuity, stuff like that). The one on the top right, "new for 88" :)

    LOL, not my favorite in the house but it's been hard to kill.

    esomv0n76dne.jpg
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,804
    Haven't managed to kill mine yet (a few decades into the mission) :)
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  • littlewoodboats
    littlewoodboats Posts: 823
    I had one of those once upon a time. Have no clue where it might be now.

    The B&K shown above should suit my needs and is in my budget. Thanks again for the input.
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  • gmcman
    gmcman Posts: 1,806
    stevep wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    This is the one I usually use for routine stuff (checking for DC on direct coupled ss amplifiers, continuity, stuff like that). The one on the top right, "new for 88" :)

    LOL, not my favorite in the house but it's been hard to kill.

    esomv0n76dne.jpg

    Ha....that was my first DMM and I still have it.
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