LSi25 or LSi9 with subwoofer

jazznsoccer

Ok - want to hear it

For primary music use would you go with a pair of LSi25 towers or LSi9's on stand with a separate 404 sub?

My room is 23 wide, 17 deep with a 9 foot flat ceiling. One of the short wall (17 Ft) has a centered 11 foot wide arched opening into the 13 x 17 game room. The other short wall has a pair of french doors in the middle.

One long wall has a fireplace in the corner, then the AV furniture then a pair of 30" bookcases. Opposite are 3 recliner loveseats where we kick back for watching movies or listening to music. The loveseats si out about 2 feet from the wall.

We listen to jazz and classical mostly with some blues and good old rock. I am mostly concerned with music capability. Home theater will be rounded out with the LSiC amd LSiFXs or LSi9s. To take full benefit of DVD A or SACD would you recommend LSi9s or the LSiFXs?

I have a budget of about $6500, so expect to spend about $4000 on speakers, and $2000 for receiver, DVD player, and cables.

I am looking at the Onkyo TX-NR901 as it seems to have enough power to run the LSi set-up. But after looking at the postings will also look into Rotel and Sunfire. NAD was interesting but have picked up some postings about poor reliabilty.

Any great ideas for DVD players with DVD-Audio & SACD capability?

PolkWannabie

If you are going to use a separate sub than 15's over 9's but not 25's as they already have built in subs. Also I'd look at SVS or HSU subs as they are a vast improvement over what Polk offers.

With that kind of budget and wanting to drive 4 ohm speakers I'd give some serious considertation to preamp & amp instead of a receiver or using the 901 as a preamp only and adding a separate amp although you could probably go a step or two down the line if you are going to use the receiver as a tuner and preamp only.

As far as surrounds go, I'd choose the LSiFX's if you are going to put them on the sides or near back or MAYBE the 9's if they're going farther back.

For a player you might want to look into a Denon 2200 or 2900 or if you have a thing for Onks then they also make a good universal.

Dr. Spec

LSi15 plus great sub is also my recommendation. Agree with Rotel or Sunfire too on the amp side.

disneyjoe7

For any 2 channel music listening I would buy the onkyo 901 as the pre. This maybe considered overkill, but I do think you will like the "Pure Audio" mode for 2 channel listening. Just a note also this mode kills the LFE output on this AVR. At least I think so, it does on the older bother of this AVR the 898.

jmierzur

For my room (15 x 13), I have:

Polk - LSi9, LSiC, LSiFx, future purchase of LSi7 for rear
SVS - PC-Ultra (2 subs)
Rotel - RB-980BX (current model is RB-1070), RMB-1075 amps

The system is used 95% of the time for music, with the remaining watching the occasional movie. Classical, jazz and rock is predominately played on the system.

I decided to go with the 9's for the main speakers, as I will always use dedicated subs within my system. With the money I saved getting the 9's instead of the 15's or 25's, I was able to purchase better subs than otherwise possible. This kept me within the budget I set at the beginning of the quest. The SVS PCUs are recent additions that have replaced older subs.

The above will keep me very happy while I start to address other areas of concern within my system.

Dr. Spec

The SVS PCUs are recent additions that have replaced older subs.

Do you like them for music? I think the TV-12 has a sound all its own.

jmierzur

Originally posted by Dr. Spec
Do you like them for music? I think the TV-12 has a sound all its own.

Prior speakers were RT20p with built in subs. Two years ago, I upgraded to the LSi series and made my initial purchase of two subs. I can't say that I was overly impressed with the selection. I settled for two Definitive Technology ProSub 80 units as I was not going to spend any more money on something that I did not particularly care for.

I heard about SVS and started to look at their products. Having been bitten by the upgrade bug this fall (should take more care while enjoying the outdoors), I revisited the local audio stores. Once again I was not overly impressed with the selection; same stuff, same sound. I started toying with the idea of purchasing the 20-39 PC-Plus. I also started conditioning the wife for the purchase.

Then came the announcement in the SVS news; the sub waiting to be made is being finally being released: the PC-Ultra. This was too much of a coincidence. I made a pre-order for the units and patiently waited for the shipping notice. Yes, I was patient as I have pre-purchased other items, sometimes years before required.

Once I received the PCUs, I re-visited the local audio stores. The only other unit I would consider would be the Velodyne DD series (dealer had a DD-10 in one room). I also noted that the price for the DD-10 was equivalent to the two PCUs just delivered (Canada).

I have listened mostly to two-channel music and two movies (Finding Nemo and Toy Story) to date. All I can say is that these subs provide very clean output. Local stores do not have any comparable subs in-store for evaluation against the PCU.

With the PCUs in the system, the mid-range is silky smooth and the bass is virtually flat down to 20Hz (with very little help from the PEQ). Everything now sounds natural and realistic. I will not bother to create any addition phrases describing the sonic characteristics of these units; better quotes can be found on-line.

Several issues I had with my system/room were caused by the previous subs. The most notable were a slightly muddy mid range and an annoying bass peak in the 60Hz (if I remember correctly) region. I could not get rid of these problems and thought they were attributed to my system/room. With the PCUs, these problems are no longer present. Three tube traps are currently in the room. The additional tube traps I was about to construct this spring are now placed on hold.

For those interested, I do not know the lower extent of the PCUs 'in room' response as the set-up discs I used only goes to 20Hz. I have burned a disc with 10 – 100Hz tones in one Hz increments. Once the PCUs have more hours on them, I will invest more than the 10 minutes it took to initially set them up to determine what they are really capable of.

The PCUs are keepers and are highly recommended.

Edit

Jazznsoccer - Sorry I hi-jacked your thread with this long winded post regarding the PCU.

pjdami

My opinion here only, but with a $6,500 budget I would do the LSi 15s, LSi C, LSi f/x, SVS 25 - 31 PC+, Rotel RSX-1055 (newer model is now out I think) and the Denon DVD 2200 or 2900. This should leave you a few hundred dollars for some nice interconnects / wire that you can get on the used market like Audiogon.

jazznsoccer

Thanks all!

Demo'd LSi15 vs 25s. Think I'll go with the 15s and subs for convenience and little better music sonics.

I will demo the Rotel 1095 this weekend. A little pricey but great reviews all around so worth a look (and if as reviewed) worth the stretch.

The Denon 2900 has tested out well. But would like to hear opinions abouot DVI vs Component connection.

Now to figure out the pre/pro...

pjdami

I will demo the Rotel 1095 this weekend.

Very cool. See if you can demo that amp with the new RSP 1098. Many RSP 1066 owners have upgraded to the newer RSP 1098 and say its a step up in sound quality. It also retails for $3,000 though.

There is also a dedicated Rotel forum over at HT Guide if you're interested in asking more questions / research on Rotel gear.

http://www.htguide.com/CFBoards/index.cfm?fuseaction=Threads.listings&Forum=25&CFB=1

PolkWannabie

1098 ? 1068 ?

pjdami

RSP-1098.

http://www.rotel.com/products/specs/rsp1098.htm

Steve@3dai

9s w/ sub, but that's just me.

Recievers can run a full LSi setup, I'm living proof

Oh, and pre-amp and amp combos require interconnects, which are just more places to get noise into your system. Of course, I really don't want to get into that right now.

Oh, and *cough* Arcam *cough*

jazznsoccer

Ok - now just who was it that put me on this slippery slope?

The Rotel 1095 demo'd very well. Gave rich full sound and plenty of power. Very clean at my listening levels with plenty more reserve that I'll rarely use.

The 1098 pre/pro is one way cool piece! Upconverts everything to component so I only need the one set of cables to the monitor. (Also available on the Onk 901). But at $3000 list certainly pushes over the budget. But I want it to be reachable.

Of course, there's an add on cost for a phono input and no tuner. But radio reception is pretty lousy in my neck of the woods so a tuner is rarely used. I did think the Onkyo Nettune feature was pretty interesting - being able to stream internet radio or music from the PC to the receiver but some of the net feed is kinda low quality so I'm wondering if the sound quality will work. Anyone out there try this?

The front panel screen is great for set ups and displaying audio info w/o having to fire up the big screen.

The problem is now the sales guy says let's just demo the B&W 804 speakers. Pretty nice.

Now I'll have to do a side by side with the Polk LSi 15s. Maybe not fair since the 15s list for ~$1700 compared to $3500 for the 804s. Is that my wallet screaming?

Then of course I have to go read reviews on the 804s. Mostly good comments across the board, but a few guys comment that for an extra $1500 the 803s are so much better than the 804s that they just had to go for it.

OK, you guessed it . Off to read the 803 reviews. Mostly good comments across the board, but a few guys comment that for an extra $3000 the 802s blow away the 803s. And the 802s are used at the Skywalker ranch. Well of course they are! They look just like R2D2 so it HAD to be... All joking aside they are one fabulous looking piece of art

Then the talk of needing a good 500 wpc amp.....

What a challenge. I wish I could start with the basic gear in my room and add an "upgrade" at a time until I got to the knee in the price curve. You know - that magical spot where one transitions from getting much better performance for an extra $1000 to just a liitle teeney bit more for the extra k buck..

Arrgh!!

I think the talk of needing to bi-wire brought me back to earth. Can't imagine this makes perceptible difference except to the poor abused wallet. (I'm SURE I'll catch flak for that!! But see
http://www.audioholics.com/FAQs/000524_biamping_biwiring.php ).

Right now, I'm trying to figure out the sweet spot knee for speakers. At this point, I think the 15s are pretty close. I'll have to do some side by side listening - but that will be tough to arrange.

At least the Denon 2900 held up pretty good through all my research.

I'm beginning to think the audiophile thing is a quest not a destination. Anyway, I just want my room built so I can enjoy a very good audio/HT system at a reasonble investment (notice how it's gone from a budget to an investment ) without getting fleeced for some .05% improvement for another few thousand bucks....

Ceruleance

Well I'm going to jump in and give you my opinion.

First of all, I think you should budget to have a 7.1 system, especially in a fairly large room like you have I think it makes a huge difference in making a convincing soundfield.

Now others may disagree with me but for HT your front 3 speakers are doing most of the work and the rest is just fill. As long as your back 4 speakers are tonally matched you shouldn't have a problem. This creates a dilemna for someone who wants to use their system for HT and Music. For music you may think it may be worth it to upgrade to the B&W 802's, but for HT a speaker of that quality is really wasted, and you would have to buy 5 other speakers for a matching system. So if you really like the B&W's, buy a stereo pair and then buy a full Polk HT (all 7 speakers tonally matched) or if you want to keep it reasonable and still get most of the performance for music, just stick with a full polk system. Either way you go, buy a nice 2 channel amp for music listening. There are plenty of threads on subwoofers so I won't go into that.

Have you budgeted for a display yet?

BTW if you ever go listening to B&W's why don't you ask the salesman to give you a blind listening test, to see whether you really can tell a huge difference between the 802's and 803's or 804's. After reading reviews like you have you are probably biased and may spend more than you have to to get excellent performance

jazznsoccer

The display is separate. Looking at the Sony KDF-70XBR950 70" XBR® Grand Wega™ Rear-Projection LCD TV. Nice sharp picture and good size for the room. Don't need much bigger and front projectors just seem too dim in a room that will have high background ambient light.

I do plan to do a "blinded" sound comparison test between the Polks and 803s to see if there is sufficient difference in sound to warrant the big difference in cost.

I think some of the info I've seen (reviews) are more based on prestige (look how much more I've spent; here's an exotic company) than sonic value. So I'll trust MY ears. I think reviews are highly valuable to get started comparing in the right area, but I can't see spending this kind of $ solely based upon reading somebody else's opinion. Again, I am buying for a nice setup that I can really enjoy; not bragging rights. Which leads me in the quest for the "knee" in the cost/value curve. Salesmen of course have a different perspective

I am interested in your thoughts on 7.1. I currently have a pair of Polk RT 55s on the exisiting set up as fronts and thought about trying these as the "7"s but concerned about timbre matching. I figured I could start with the 5.1 set up and use the 55s to see if 7.1 made enough of a difference to warrant additional cost.

PolkWannabie

If you go with B&W's, the farther up the line you go the better they clearly sound, but that can get ridiculously expensive. Regardless of the place you decide to stop on your upward B&W trek, I would give serious consideration to buying used. There are almost always used 804's and up for sale on Audiogon for a good deal less than new. One last thought on B&W's which I stated in another thread, although I like Rotel gear I think there are better choices for "motivating" the B&W's but that'll kick the wheels off your budget.

jazznsoccer

I'm more than a little leary of buying used speakers or transports. Like all mechanical devices they wear out over time. Cone materials in particular can disintegrate over the years. Amps and pre/pros I'd be willing to look at used.

Frank Z

Originally posted by jazznsoccer


I think some of the info I've seen (reviews) are more based on prestige (look how much more I've spent; here's an exotic company) than sonic value. So I'll trust MY ears. I think reviews are highly valuable to get started comparing in the right area, but I can't see spending this kind of $ solely based upon reading somebody else's opinion. Again, I am buying for a nice setup that I can really enjoy; not bragging rights.

I am interested in your thoughts on 7.1. I currently have a pair of Polk RT 55s on the exisiting set up as fronts and thought about trying these as the "7"s but concerned about timbre matching. I figured I could start with the 5.1 set up and use the 55s to see if 7.1 made enough of a difference to warrant additional cost.

Brilliant!!
Your money and your ears are the only thing that matters. Yes even my opinion about the Lsis doesn't amount to much if you don't like the sound!

As for 7.1, If you room is big enough, by all means do it. I know a lot of people think it's a waste because there aren't any movies with a 7.1 sound track, but even a 5.1 track handled properly with the right DPL or DSP modes can sound superb. 6.1 tracks on a 7.1 system are even better, the sound fiels is virtually seamless.

Now load your money, your ears, and your neutral attitude in the family mini-van and start auditioning some more!;)

Good luck with your upgrades, and enjoy whatever you decide to get.