Moving HT 5.1 to 7.1, suggestions/advice on adding or upgrading speakers...

dclatta

Happy New Year all !!! Just picked up new receiver on boxing day and planning out a move from 5.1 to 71 for the Home Theater. I'm looking for some help and suggestions on the setup, additional speakers or other upgrades??

Current System:
New Receiver: Denon AVR-S720W
Fronts: Polk TSi400's
Center: Polk CS10
Sub: Polk PSW108 (do I need to upgrade this??)
Rears: Polk M10's (mounted 2 ft below ceiling)
Spare Parts: Pair of Polk MC80 ceiling speakers (bought 1 or 2 yrs ago to replace M10's but never got around to it).

So I am looking at all options at this point:

• 7.1 using existing M10's and MC80's (would I use the ceiling as the side surround or the rear surround)?
• Standard 7.1 but upgrade one or both sets of surrounds? Looking at either better Bookshelves or Ceilings
• Setup as Dolby Atmos, which if I understand involves one or both sets of surrounds being Ceiling. Would the MC80's be ok for one of the sets? Pair it with another set of 80's or something else? (I know dolby has recommended but not required list).
• Setup as DTS-X. Still reading up on this but as I understand, can be Ceiling or standard speakers? Suggestions on speakers / upgrades to achieve this?
• Any other setups I have overlooked???

I've looked at a few replacements (though not seriously yet), including R150's, T300's, T15's & S15's, but not sure which will match (timbre) the front and centers. Which Polk Speakers / series will match the TSi's (obviously TSi and I know the M's do)? I think I heard RT's not a good match.

At this point I haven't really determined a 'budget' for this as I am still trying to determine which direction I should be going? Obviously I would want to keep costs to a minimum but also understand may have to 'pay' to get some of these options. If I was just looking to upgrade the M10's probably budget $200 per pair, adding other Speakers or Ceilings would increase that budget (maybe $200 plus / pr).

So just looking for peoples opinions and advice here. Thanks in advance for any help...

Darrell...

rpf65

Replace the sub. Get something from SVS.

Don't know your room size, but would probably put in ceiling speakers, and keep it as 5.1.2(4). Mount the MC 80's in the ceiling, and grab another pair, if you can find them. I would probably go 5.1.4 before I would choose 7.1.2.

Dmega

Hello dclatta. Your new avr is a atmos dtsx capable receiver to a max of 5.1.2 configuration or 7.1 traditional surround. Having done both setups I would strongly recommend the 5.1.2. Atmos setup. Dtsx will work fine with the atmos layout. FYI you can have dual subwoofer connected but the share the same channel.

I would recommend setting up the bookshelf speakers close to ear level at the perscribed angles from dolby.com and use the incieling speakers as top ceiling middles for the best performance.

I'm not sure about timber matching/upgrading the F C R speakers but perhaps a call into polk support would help as they have done for me.

I'm more inclined you upgrade your subwoofer first and see how your system sounds. Honestly having just gone through a subwoofer upgrade I would recommend no less than svs...the bass is just better than anything you will get from the local BB store on a value budget. Spend some money on your sub to make it worth it.

To sum up. Use all existing speakers will save you money. Setup a 5.1.2 atmos configuration with top middles and spend your money on the subwoofer.

...also worth noting in ceiling speaker placement options.

If you plan on going bigger atmos layout in the future (the upgrade bug) I would suggest setting up the layout for 4 in ceiling speakers now (top front and top back) and getting a different receiver that can handle a 5.1.4 or 7.1.4 processing. It will save you from cutting holes in the wrong places.

A 5.1.2 can upgrade easily to a 7.1.2 and then 9.1.2 but this last configuration is rarely supported by receiver manufactures.

A 5.1.4 can easily upgrade to 7.1.4 then to 9.1.4. And in my opinion is the best configurations we have available for cheap right now.

dclatta

Thank you both for the Reponses, a lot of great details. After researching and reading your comments, my room is probably better suited to Atmos 5.1.2; its 20' long by 15' wide with 8' (drop down) ceiling but the real 'issue' is the couch is against the back wall (can't really move it up more than a foot or 2). So back surrounds wouldn't be nearly as effective as the placing the one set in ceiling. Couple more questions though:

1. With the Atmos 5.1.2 setup, what happens to the top middle speakers when there is no Atmos source (ie movie not coded in Atmos)? Do they just not carry a signal (ie revert back to straight 5.1) or do they fill in as additional (ceiling mounted) surrounds?
2. Subwoofer: SVS does sound like one of the best but even entry level are on the high end of pricing (for me at least); in Canada being in the $700-1000 mark. What is a good solid sub (superior to the Polk in the mid price range ($400-600 cdn)?

Thanks again for the comments.

Ricardo

Agree on upgrading the sub. 7.1 is overrated.

dclatta

What about the Polk PSW505? I know Polk is not known for their subs and they are average for the most part but I read on another thread that the PSW505 is a decent sub compared to a lot of the other Polk offerings and relatively inexpensive, albeit not in the same class as SVS...

mrloren

The 505 is a good sub for the money, if you can find one one sale for less than $170 it's not a bad pickup. If you can budget an HSU or SVS is by far way better.

For your 7.1 a lot is up to you. my house came pre weirded for in ceiling speakers. I put them in and was like ok, as soon as I could afford to I went to floor standing speakers. I sat there for years with the front in-ceiling speakers not being used till I got my 5700ES receiver. Front height added a little more to the sound stage and affects. It was not night and day like going from stereo to 5.1. I now have a Marantz receiver that does Atmos yes it is a lot better. You already have the MC80. I would install these as front height speakers and be done with it.

One thing that pisses me off about my ceiling speakers is the builder staple the wires down. I can't re-pull better speaker wire through. They used some junk 16awg wire to boot.

Dmega

dclatta wrote: »

Thank you both for the Reponses, a lot of great details. After researching and reading your comments, my room is probably better suited to Atmos 5.1.2; its 20' long by 15' wide with 8' (drop down) ceiling but the real 'issue' is the couch is against the back wall (can't really move it up more than a foot or 2). So back surrounds wouldn't be nearly as effective as the placing the one set in ceiling. Couple more questions though:

1. With the Atmos 5.1.2 setup, what happens to the top middle speakers when there is no Atmos source (ie movie not coded in Atmos)? Do they just not carry a signal (ie revert back to straight 5.1) or do they fill in as additional (ceiling mounted) surrounds?
2. Subwoofer: SVS does sound like one of the best but even entry level are on the high end of pricing (for me at least); in Canada being in the $700-1000 mark. What is a good solid sub (superior to the Polk in the mid price range ($400-600 cdn)?

Thanks again for the comments.

A couple of points...
if you move your couch to the middle the full atmos will work. I have done this as I use it as a mostly dedicated HT room with a treadmill behind the couch( room is 10.5 x19x8). My optimal viewing distance from my 4k TV is around 9 feet. My height speakers are just front and aft of the seating position.

Even if you wanted your couch to be further away from the tv you dont have to go all the way to the back wall...3.5 feet from the back wall might be fine and still give you ample floor space ahead of the couch. If you do a 5.1.2 with a 20 foot distance your angles could be compromised for the L and R speakers and your viewing distance will be too far from the TV.

Now moving on to atmos 5.1.2.
If you play a movie not encoded with atmos or dtsx you have the dolby surround and dts x neural upmixers. They both try to add height effects such as rain or maybe a plane passing overhead. My understanding of how it works is it tries to emulate object based surround sound. From experience it does a reasonably good job breathing new life into old movie mixes.

Subwoofers...
I too live in Canada which means I have to deal with the local BB or 2001 audio video for much of my audio (ew!). Forget going to a specialty AV store as they have nothing in your budget as I'm sure you know. This is where svs comes in. When compared to my polk psw125 12 inch ported sub there really isn't any comparison. The psw505 has useful bass down to about 35hz. Do yourself a BIG favor and get at least the pb1000 which gets down to about 20hz and at 699 CDN prices it would be worth it. Based on your room dimensions you really should have 2x the svs pb1000 or at least one pb2000 which is what I got. In my room the pb2000 measures down to 15hz of useful bass tho its officially rated down to 17hz.

rpf65

If the movie isn't coded for ATMOS, then the ceiling/ATMOS modules will probably get minimal to no signals.

As far as the subwoofer is concerned, do it right the first time. Pretty much everybody here has gone through the same thing. Thought of the subwoofer last, and went for a lower cost one.

Unless you hear it, you won't know what your missing. When you do hear a quality sub, you'll understand why so many people stress its importance.

mrloren

I don't know how Amazon Canada is but this would be much better than a 505 https://www.amazon.com/SVS-SB12-NSD-400-watt-Controlled-Subwoofer/dp/B009F8Y7SO/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1484063790&sr=1-1&keywords=svs