RTIA vs Signature Series

msg

RB - Fantastic. As you've noted, they should get better with time on them.

Yeah, maybe Skip or one of the others who've heard them can hop in to talk about the two different centers. People say, generally, the larger of the two size centers typically offered gives better performance, but centers like the A6, or LSiM's 706, can be too big, physically, for some owners to place, so they opt for the smaller. As with everything in this hobby, a lot of it's about what works best for you.

In prior discussions, people who've heard both the larger and smaller variants of a particular center channel offered seems to echo what's been noted above regarding center channels - it's one of, if not the most important speakers for HT along with the sub, and to go with the larger if possible. The S30 seems potentially more appropriately matched with your large fronts. For 2ch, it won't matter, obviously.

While I didn't care for the RTi10 for music, I liked them and the CSi5 for TV. These would be similar to your RTiA setup. I really liked the CSi5. A lot. So much comes out of the center in HT.

From your end, I acknowledge that it is difficult to work this through without the opportunity to personally spend a little of time with the three centers, and to do so with them all already broken in, which takes a good bit of time/use. From prior, albeit limited, experience, my gut says the S30 would be closer in performance to the A6 than the S35, but pure speculation. Just seems like a better match for your S60s if you're finding the S35 a little lacking to your ears. This can get expensive, but sometimes for me, the only way to be sure has been to get both to see for myself, experiment a bit, keep the better performer, and return the other. I haven't seen a design like the S35 before, though. Multiple smaller drivers is intriguing, along with small PowerPort design on the back, so I have to wonder how well it does.

Again, a few of the other guys have heard many of the speakers in this line, and may be able to comment more specifically.

mr2686

What do you think could be wrong? Both sets of speakers plugged in to the same AVR (one plugged in, played, then unplugged and the other plugged in to the same inputs), same settings etc. If your analysis is that the Sig Series is smoother, well it is true that they don't have that high end sizzle that the RTI's initially do (they do smooth out with time and/or extra power) but the Sigs are overall brighter. I cannot stand real bright speakers, and the Sigs do not fall in to the "can't stand" category, but they were brighter. Since everyone's ears are different, it comes down to personal preference to sound, tone, etc, but I just don't see why people would jump on these and actually come done a notch from the RTI's. JMHO.

mr2686

I can't tell you how many hours were on the 60's, and although the Sigs would seem great for HT, I honestly find it hard to believe that anyone that dislikes the RTI's for music would find the Sigs as anything better. With that said, and like any speaker, YMMV and speakers should be heard in person to determine individual preference.

HzTweaker

The Sig series and the RTI's are too different to compare In the since that I wouldn't look at trading one lineup for another and a step down. Clearly one would have to choose the series that would fit the consumers demands the best. Those being said (not ever hearing a pair of RTIs) based on having the power to drive both efficiently and reading many reviews on this forum and others I'd still prefer my Sig's.

mr2686

I can't argue with that, and it's not so much writing them off as much as feeling an upgrade for me would be going up to the LSIM's. Even if I liked the Sigs better than I do, I don't think anyone owning the RTI's would be upgrading by going to the Sigs(unless you just hate the RTI's, but then, those that do usually move on to a different brand). The bottom line is buy and listen to what you enjoy.

Erik Tracy

Just my deflated 2 cents worth, but some people may like the 'sparkle' of the RTiA line for music.

As noted elsewhere, I'm probably one of two people on the planet that actually preferred the RTiA3 over the LSi7. Did not like the sleepy laid back sound of the LSi7 at low to moderate volumes - took too much 'work' to listen into layered music to find the details that the RTiA3 revealed.

Just what I heard in my system with my music in my room with my preferences.

Haven't heard the Signature speakers, but if they are, truly, the "Goldilocks" between the LSi and RTiA series, then that would be a good thing, in my book.

I'd much rather have a revealing (honest?) speaker and forego crappy recordings, than a forgiving (laid back/veiled) speaker that hides detail.

IMHO, of course.

gumbay13

As always in this hobby its all in the "eye/ear of the beholder".

There are upgrades and there are lateral moves... masquerading as upgrades. Still your call.

I know it is going to cost me a pretty penny to upgrade from my A7s which continue to amaze me time and time again.

Just for giggles, I have had the Lsim 703s and the A7s side by side connected to my dual LV12Rs crossed at 60hz and then at 80hz and came away preferring and even more impressed with my A7s.

Feed it good QUALITY material, sit back and be amazed at the sound the A7 oozes with class and clarity like nobody's business.

I have listened to the S55s in less than ideal conditions at Best Buy and was impressed. I have no doubt the S60s will step it up another notch.
I may pick one up just out of curiosity but certainly NOT because I want to upgrade from the A7s.

dalylaleahthor

DSkip wrote: »

I get that. I wouldn't tell someone to trade the RTiA for the Sigs but I do recommend new buyers to definitely check them out before going with RTiA.

I would have bought the new series over the rtia series even if the cost was the same. The impression it left on me was that good. That's if I was buying speakers all over again from the beginning though. Oh and I'll trade my rtia series for the Sig series in a heart beat too bad my son tipped my speakers over and messed up the cabinet. Now it's going to be here for him when he grows up.

K_M

Erik Tracy wrote: »

Just my deflated 2 cents worth, but some people may like the 'sparkle' of the RTiA line for music.

As noted elsewhere, I'm probably one of two people on the planet that actually preferred the RTiA3 over the LSi7. Did not like the sleepy laid back sound of the LSi7 at low to moderate volumes - took too much 'work' to listen into layered music to find the details that the RTiA3 revealed.

Just what I heard in my system with my music in my room with my preferences.

Haven't heard the Signature speakers, but if they are, truly, the "Goldilocks" between the LSi and RTiA series, then that would be a good thing, in my book.

I'd much rather have a revealing (honest?) speaker and forego crappy recordings, than a forgiving (laid back/veiled) speaker that hides detail.

IMHO, of course.

Tough call. We do not own the Lsi7, but do own the Lsi9, and the Rti6 which is nearly identical to the Rtia3.
The bass is for sure deeper with the Rti, but while it has a more fun and forward sound, I find it less accurate overall.
The lsi is really not all that laid back, but actually fairly neutral.
Not arguing with you, as we both love the Rti sound at times also!, but after a lot of A/B'ing between them and the Lsi, the Lsi always won out as the mids sounding smoother and more "real".
Of course ones hearing and room factor in a lot when comparing treble sounds.
If anything i would say the Rti is a couple decibels too strong, and the lsi close to neutral.

cfrizz

So Skip, are you saying they finally achieved a good balance between the top and bottom ends. If so, how would you describe it.

K_M

DSkip wrote: »

The failure of the LSi, especially the 9, is the subdued top end and thick as mud midbass. With the right gear you can work some of that out, but not all of it. The failure of the RTi, in musical applications, is that sizzling, fatigue-enducing top-end. Same thing here though - with the right gear, you can work that out.

Perhaps this is "ear" dependent also.
I do not find any of the Lsi line subdued in the top end, but my husband does somewhat.
We are somewhat apart in age also.
With the Rti, I find it quite bright, he finds it a bit less annoying than me..lol

rooftop59

K_M wrote: »

DSkip wrote: »

The failure of the LSi, especially the 9, is the subdued top end and thick as mud midbass. With the right gear you can work some of that out, but not all of it. The failure of the RTi, in musical applications, is that sizzling, fatigue-enducing top-end. Same thing here though - with the right gear, you can work that out.

Perhaps this is "ear" dependent also.
I do not find any of the Lsi line subdued in the top end, but my husband does somewhat.
We are somewhat apart in age also.
With the Rti, I find it quite bright, he finds it a bit less annoying than me..lol

Of course everything is ear dependent, and other equiptment dependent, room dependent, source dependent, etc. Lots of variables to consider.

BUT, the lower mid-bass bump is the LSi bookies, and the treble boost in the RTi bookies, are both measurable, documented issues. Stereophile has measurements for both the LSi7 and the RTi4 to back this up.

cfrizz

Outstanding Skip, you gave me exactly what I was looking for. That is precisely what I want, an all around balanced speaker that will do well with both music and movies.

That's why I have kept my RTA-8Ts for 27 years!!!

Thank you!

K_M

rooftop59 wrote: »

K_M wrote: »

DSkip wrote: »

The failure of the LSi, especially the 9, is the subdued top end and thick as mud midbass. With the right gear you can work some of that out, but not all of it. The failure of the RTi, in musical applications, is that sizzling, fatigue-enducing top-end. Same thing here though - with the right gear, you can work that out.

Perhaps this is "ear" dependent also.
I do not find any of the Lsi line subdued in the top end, but my husband does somewhat.
We are somewhat apart in age also.
With the Rti, I find it quite bright, he finds it a bit less annoying than me..lol

Of course everything is ear dependent, and other equiptment dependent, room dependent, source dependent, etc. Lots of variables to consider.

BUT, the lower mid-bass bump is the LSi bookies, and the treble boost in the RTi bookies, are both measurable, documented issues. Stereophile has measurements for both the LSi7 and the RTi4 to back this up.

Yes I simply mentioned "Ear" dependent, since I found the lsi line quite nice treble wise, and skip found it subdued, as how my husband "hears" it.

I agree all that stuff matters, but when it is all the same and 2 people come to a different conclusion, the final arbiter are ones hearing or preference.

NJKinMPLS

Nightfall wrote: »

Some here frown upon how much "vintage Polk" gets thrown around when somebody is looking at new speakers but you really should hear them. You could get a pair of SDA 2B's for less than the RTiA7's you have now and I'd put $20 on the table that you'd like them better. A lot better.

Just one persons opinion. Good luck!

I agree about the vintage Polk angle. I just finally caved in and (after pressure from my better half) bought the Signature S60 towers, the Signature S35 slim center channel, and a pair of the Signature S10 bookshelf speakers for surround... This was after more than 25 years with a pair of beloved Monitor 7c Polks - which I still love to this day (even more than the new Signature Series). But even I had to agree with my sweetheart that after remodeling the basement, and putting in a screen and projector theater, a gorgeous wet bar, etc. the Monitor 7c speakers looked like a bit of an eyesore, in the slick new decor. I'm borderline ashamed to admit that I bought the Signature Series speakers based in part on how they look. I was told to buy something that sounded good, but looked good too. The Signature Series S60 towers do sound pretty good - those tweeters (which are rated to 40,000 Hz, BTW!!) are phenomenal, but can be almost fatiguing after a while (and I DO love nice, crisp, bright, clear highs). I had to dial back the tweeters on the Signature Series, to stop my ears from ringing after a while. After doing so, the sound was just a little bit "muddy" from the S60's. It's really hard to get them equalized just right, where you get all of the crispness and detail of the vintage 7c tweeters, without the harsh, shrill, painful overkill of the Signature Series. There doesn't seem to be much of an in between -
they're either muddy, or you are bleeding from your ears. There may very well be such a thing as tweeters that go too high, in terms of frequency response. I never had this problem with the 7c, and they were plenty crisp and detailed; but never harsh. I would honestly prefer a slightly less capable tweeter in the Signature Series, as weird as that sounds... But it's the lower end, on the Signature Series, where I notice the biggest gap, versus my vintage 7c's. The Monitor 7c was an acoustic suspension speaker (an air-tight, non-ported design), so the bass was impossibly tight, and unbelievably precise. Unfortunately, very few speakers these days are made that way - they're almost all of the ported variety, in order to produce big, thundering, wall-rattling explosions, etc. when you saddle them with home theater duty. Unfortunately, when you throw some of your favorite music at ported speakers (especially when you've gotten SO used to the sound from an acoustic suspension design), the bass will just never be as tight and controlled - no matter what you do. Ported speakers are always going to be a bit sloppier and boomier on the low end - and that diminishes the music experience for me. I knew I would never be able to find a new "modern looking" speaker that could match the sound from my beloved Monitor 7c's. Every few years, for at least the last 10-12 years, I would stop in to the Hi-Fi shop and listen to what was current, speaker-wise. In all those years, I'd never heard anything I liked any better than my 7c's. But I wanted to get as close to that 7c sound as possible, without breaking the bank. With an external equalizer and a LOT of tweaking, adjusting placement, etc. I've been able to get the Signature S60 towers to sound closer to what I loved so much from my vintage Polks, but the S60 still can't quite match that 7c sound. I kept my 7c's, and I will probably finish off a small, music-only listening room in the attic, someday. Movies and TV will be watched in the basement on the Signature Series setup. I'm okay with that. If you're not constrained by how they look, I agree that a set of vintage Polk Audio speakers will dazzle you more than anything Polk currently builds or sells. Back when they were building music-only speakers, the sound was just so much better. Having to produce "multi-media" speakers for TV and movies meant some compromises on the music side. From that point onward, the sound went downhill, in terms of music. Polk has never really been able to recreate that fat, rich, gorgeous sound from its vintage speakers. I will admit that my 7c's weren't the best for TV and movies - they did alright, but the Signature Series handle that duty much better. Part of the problem was I couldn't find a center channel and surround speakers that were really "timbre matched" to the old 7c's; they just seemed to prefer music to TV and movies. You can coax a pair of vintage Polk speakers to do home theater duty, and they'll be fine - maybe not the best. BUT, you can't take any of their current home theater speakers and make them match the sound of their vintage speakers, when it comes to music. So, if you have to sacrifice one thing to get the other, it's NOT a 2-way street. There is something the vintage Polks can do that the current speakers never can. I'm rambling, I know, but that has been my experience with the Signature Series - pretty good, but not epic, like those vintage Polks of mine.

motorhead43026

What are you driving your S60's with? I don't find them fatiguing at all. I also have SDA's,10'S and 7C's.

F1nut

Welcome to Club Polk.

Just one thing, the 7C's are not an acoustic suspension design. They use a passive radiator, which is similar to a port. That said, I'm with you in that ported speakers fall short compared to those with PR's or an acoustic suspension design.

As for the Signature series tweeter, I haven't found them bright at all. How many hours do you have on them?

deronb1

cfrizz wrote: »

Outstanding Skip, you gave me exactly what I was looking for. That is precisely what I want, an all around balanced speaker that will do well with both music and movies.

That's why I have kept my RTA-8Ts for 27 years!!!

Thank you!

I have RTA 8Ts as well Cathy. Bought in Germany in 1989. Better for music than any RTi line and im guessing than RTia.

deronb1

Skip, PM1s are the best sounding bookies i have heard, period. Not sure how they do it and i dont care, but when a pair falls into my price range, im jumping on em.

cfrizz

deronb1 wrote: »

cfrizz wrote: »

Outstanding Skip, you gave me exactly what I was looking for. That is precisely what I want, an all around balanced speaker that will do well with both music and movies.

That's why I have kept my RTA-8Ts for 27 years!!!

Thank you!

I have RTA 8Ts as well Cathy. Bought in Germany in 1989. Better for music than any RTi line and im guessing than RTia.

I never had the RTi speakers, but I do know that the Signature series trumped my RTA-8Ts easily.

The tweeter is excellent, not the least bit sharp, but crystal clear that I can and do listen to all day long!

F1nut

deronb1 wrote: »

Skip, PM1s are the best sounding bookies i have heard, period. Not sure how they do it and i dont care, but when a pair falls into my price range, im jumping on em.

Give the Joseph Audio Pulsar a listen.

deronb1

F1nut wrote: »

deronb1 wrote: »

Skip, PM1s are the best sounding bookies i have heard, period. Not sure how they do it and i dont care, but when a pair falls into my price range, im jumping on em.

Give the Joseph Audio Pulsar a listen.

I would love to. Not saying there arent better speakers, but have to be practical.

deronb1

DSkip wrote: »

deronb1 wrote: »

Skip, PM1s are the best sounding bookies i have heard, period. Not sure how they do it and i dont care, but when a pair falls into my price range, im jumping on em.

Pulsar, Usher Mini X, and the Rosso Fiorentino Fiesole will beat those easily. That isn't a jab against the B&W as they are nice but the other three best it.

You might also consider a pair of Be-718 with diamond tweeters if they fall in your range.

The Usher bookies i heard at Dans were very bright. Punchy low end too. Came off as party speakers on first impression. Good over all sound, but very forward. Limited time listening with small music sample size. Could definitely appreciate the potential.

deronb1

They did have a diffetent quality than THJs Ushers. They are not polite by any means, but deliver a nice sound with a ton of punch.

voltz

deronb1 wrote: »

Skip, PM1s are the best sounding bookies i have heard, period. Not sure how they do it and i dont care, but when a pair falls into my price range, im jumping on em.

it your ears Brother , and you know what you like! go for it

for me I got lucky and Skip made me a offer I could not refuse! like I expect from Tony! if you know what I mean

got those dang Usher Mini X's and oh boy they be missing with my head! I'm lost right now but I do know I like them over my 705's which I thought sounded as good as most stuff I've heard!

was wrong once the Usher broke in completely...I put the 705's back in service the other day...and the thought hit me..wait something is missing ....the Usher Diamond tweeter had stole the show.. carp aloha ... carp me aloha..

I still think my 705's are super speakers but..I think I like those dang Usher mini X's are better... I having trouble even saying this! I like my 705's and they will always be in my HT setup with the 703's in surround mode!

I hope someday you can make the LSAF and hang out with us! but go with what your ears tell you is best! there are so many awesome speakers out there and truly I like my CRS+'s and some SDA 2B's I picked up for a friend and been playing around with they can not do what these Diamond tweeter's do...but I do not want to let those SDa 2b'S go LOL.

deronb1

voltz wrote: »

deronb1 wrote: »

Skip, PM1s are the best sounding bookies i have heard, period. Not sure how they do it and i dont care, but when a pair falls into my price range, im jumping on em.

it your ears Brother , and you know what you like! go for it

for me I got lucky and Skip made me a offer I could not refuse! like I expect from Tony! if you know what I mean

got those dang Usher Mini X's and oh boy they be missing with my head! I'm lost right now but I do know I like them over my 705's which I thought sounded as good as most stuff I've heard!

was wrong once the Usher broke in completely...I put the 705's back in service the other day...and the thought hit me..wait something missing ....the Usher Diamond tweeter had stole the show.. carp aloha ... carp me aloha..

You are so right Sir. Whatever stirrs the soul. Different for everybody.

deronb1

DSkip wrote: »

That diamond steals the show for many, including me. The Rosso Fiorentino Fiesole matches that top end and takes the rest of the package even further. It will be interesting to have you hear the Rosso line after you've spent a good deal of time with those Mini X.

All the speakers are wonderful that have been discussed. It does come down to synergy and subjectivity in the end, so go for what pleases you man.

PS - one of these days I'll make it up to Indy and bring my traveling showcase for you guys.

That would be a blast! Will bring the Woodbourne, as only two were ever sold, lol.

gumbay13

cfrizz wrote: »

rburgess714 wrote: »

Yeah, I like TonyBs and F1Nuts suggestion of McCormack, Parasound, B&k and hi-end cabling but I am not there yet. Not saying I will not take that path at some point but for now I just want to listen to some music at various volumes and enjoy it without constantly changing the settings to take the edge of the A7. They sure are pretty but I am boxing them up today. The A3s are already boxed and I guess I have a csia6 for sale though the center sounds pretty damn good but I assume the timbre will not pair well with s60?
RB

He is not an audiophile, maybe in the future but for right now he made his wishes perfectly clear. He just wants to enjoy his system without jumping through hoops.

We all know that the RTiA series is bright for music. Rather trying to convince him to spend 100s/1000s more dollars trying to tame them, just let him get less bright speakers so that he can enjoy his system now.

And while I like having a prepro for my system, I have used a receiver with an amp and was very satisfied with the results. To this day, the biggest improvement I have ever made to my system was getting a powerful amp. But it took me years to get to that point.

He upgraded his receiver so when he is ready he can add an amp to ensure whatever speakers he has will run to their full potential. He just needs the right speakers that won't give him a headache.

Skip has had the entire Signature set up in his house for quite some time and is the most qualified to speak as to whether RB would benefit from getting these speakers instead of the RTia's that RB has now.

RB, right now don't worry about the center channel, just return what you can and get something else. Who knows, you might like how it sounds. Just take it one step at a time.

None of my speakers match since it was put together over several years with upgrades coming as technology changed, and my system sounds just fine to MY ears.

There are no absolutes in this hobby, it is up to you to decide how much you want to spend and how good it sounds to YOU.

I say AMEN to that!!

danzilla31

Hey guys I'm new to the audio bug but I've gotten it pretty bad or not Lol so I'm looking forward to getting to know everyone as I go down the rabbit hole. I know I'm a little late to this party but would like to jump in and get to know everybody. On my end to your original post I went with the S60's a truly amazing speaker for my budget in my humble opinion. I liked them so much I bought a third S60 for my center speaker! Overkill probably but what the heck it sounds great! I hope you've figured out your best choice since I'm late to this post. Like to say to DSkip Ive really enjoyed some of your insights and knowledge since I started checking out these sites it's helped out a lot. Anyway best wishes to you all looking forward to getting to know everyone!

cfrizz

Welcome to Club Polk Danzilla! I can't quite picture a S60 as a center speaker!