Inwall speakers--dome tweeter or horn?

jwb0007

Intend to purchase/install a couple of inwall speakers to use as back surround speakers, to augment my present RTi12, CSiA6, RTi6, and Outlaw LFM-1EX sub system.

The 2 speakers I am presently considering (though, open to suggestions) are the Polk RC85i and the BIC America FH8-W.

My questions:

1. When positioning "2 - 3 feet above MLP ear level", and an actual height of 6-7 feet (seems to be the most recommended height). Is that the tweeter at the specific height, or the woofer?
2. How important will it be to "match" with the other 5 speakers? Match, as in brand, series, close size, etc.
3. In general, am I likely to notice any difference if the tweeter size in the inwall if it is 3/4" or 1"?
4. The BIC has a mid/high frequency horn, rather than a tweeter.

My real desire for the rear surrounds is not music augmentation, but HT. Specifically, I really want to hear overhead action, and to achieve greater overhead panning from front to back. Am I expecting/hoping too much, or am I likely to achieve that result? FYI, my receiver is a Yamaha RX-A2030, and my fronts are powered by my Yamaha M-65 amp.

Thank you for your help and ideas!

mdaudioguy

Get the Polks. They'll integrate well with your RTi series. Timbre matching isn't terribly significant for HT surrounds, but why not? 6' to 7' is a ballpark, depending on how far away they are from the seating positions. If they're close, then go 6', based on the tweeter.

mdaudioguy

Going from 5.1 to 7.1 will be nice, and the difference will be most noticeable with soundtracks specifically encoded for 7.1, although Yamaha does a nice job of matrixing channels that are not specifically encoded. Depending on your space, you may also want to consider additional front speakers, which Yamaha calls "Presence" channels. These function similar to what other brands refer to as height channels. They would be positioned higher and wider than your front L & R speakers.

jwb0007

^ mdaudioguy, thanks for your insight and responses. Mind if I send you a PM with a question on a different subject (I see that you have the Yammie 2040, and my question concerns my 2030), and I don't want to distract from my OWN post!?

polrbehr

Something else to consider with the Polks - their tweeters can be "aimed" according to your taste. I have a pair of RC65i used as surrounds, and though they are mounted only about 5' from the floor, the tweeters are pointed upwards and away from the seats.

jwb0007

Good point, polrbehr. My question then (as my MLP is about 5.5 - 6 feet away), does the 6 1/4" horn with its dispersion pattern solve that problem--as well as the aimable tweeter does?

jwb0007

jwb0007 wrote: »

^ mdaudioguy, thanks for your insight and responses. Mind if I send you a PM with a question on a different subject (I see that you have the Yammie 2040, and my question concerns my 2030), and I don't want to distract from my OWN post!?

You know what? I probably ought to post my question on AVS in the "Official Yamaha . . ." thread, and not bother YOU!

jwb0007

polrbehr, in your opinion, are these inwalls capable of accomplishing the kind of HT enhancement I mentioned in my post? Specifically, significant overhead enhancement--if the source has the tracks as mdaudioguy pointed out?

mdaudioguy

jwb0007 wrote: »

jwb0007 wrote: »

^ mdaudioguy, thanks for your insight and responses. Mind if I send you a PM with a question on a different subject (I see that you have the Yammie 2040, and my question concerns my 2030), and I don't want to distract from my OWN post!?

You know what? I probably ought to post my question on AVS in the "Official Yamaha . . ." thread, and not bother YOU!

No worries! I shot you a PM, although I don't really have an answer for you at this time.

polrbehr

jwb0007 wrote: »

polrbehr, in your opinion, are these inwalls capable of accomplishing the kind of HT enhancement I mentioned in my post? Specifically, significant overhead enhancement--if the source has the tracks as mdaudioguy pointed out?

In my 5.1 setup, inwalls replaced a pair of Polk FX500i surrounds, which were made specifically for HT, so my expectations were that they would not sound as good. But I gave them a try because they were a lot less obtrusive when we remodeled our living room. Honestly, I don't feel like I lost anything. The sound from the inwalls might not be as dispersed compared to the bipole/dipole ability the FX had, but the difference was so small I felt it worth the trade-off. Since you are going from 5.1 to 7.1, the
addition of inwalls as rear surrounds should be plenty enough for what you are looking for.

I can't really comment on the horn tweeter, no experience with them at all.

tonyb

No comment on the in-walls, but you said you seem to lack, or want better panning of the surround sounds. So my question is....is everything else set up to maximize that ? Is your Blu-ray player connected to the receiver by HDMI ? All your wire connections solid ? Some older dvd's are not as profound as some of the more dynamic bluray disks too. Speakers set up in the most optimized positions in the room ?

jwb0007

Hi, Tony, and thanks for your input. I think that my sound/system is set up properly. I love the sound (HT and music). What I would like is to have greater overhead sound for such things as aerial combat, helicopter gunships, rain, and all overhead sounds.

Sound seems to be channeled properly now in my 5.1 setup, but it is the overhead that I seem to be lacking. So, it is not that I am not hearing the sounds, I am simply trying to create greater spatial reality. Am I making sense?

And since I "have you on the line", might I ask your thoughts also on the value to me of using not only the 2 rear surrounds, but whether using inwalls with a mid/high frequency horn would likely cause problems being mated to my other Polk speakers?

Thanks!

lightman1

Atmos is in your future.....

jwb0007

Hooboy! My thrifty nature is hoping to avoid that!

lightman1

Yep. I tried the thrifty thing too. That is, until these yahoos here told me how to spend my money.

tonyb

jwb0007 wrote: »

Hi, Tony, and thanks for your input. I think that my sound/system is set up properly. I love the sound (HT and music). What I would like is to have greater overhead sound for such things as aerial combat, helicopter gunships, rain, and all overhead sounds.

Sound seems to be channeled properly now in my 5.1 setup, but it is the overhead that I seem to be lacking. So, it is not that I am not hearing the sounds, I am simply trying to create greater spatial reality. Am I making sense?

And since I "have you on the line", might I ask your thoughts also on the value to me of using not only the 2 rear surrounds, but whether using inwalls with a mid/high frequency horn would likely cause problems being mated to my other Polk speakers?

Thanks!

Gotcha man, I don't see a problem with the horns, in that position. Those are ambient sounds and not voices, which would be more of a matching headache. I think though if you want more overhead sounds, you need to go in-ceiling and not in-wall.

jwb0007

Hi, again, Tony. You are helping me get closer to pulling a/the trigger. Still wondering which one, though.

Question about the mid/high horn. I am asking because:

1. I can mount inwall speakers with the tweeter/horn about 5 1/2' linear distance from MLP and at 6' height (or more if better)
2. The ceiling is VAULTED
3. So, wondering if the horn might--or not--provide better projection and dispersion in the large cubic footage situation and be less directional
4. When I listen to music, which is probably 50% of the time, some of it is vocal, and the surround sound I usually choose is PLiix, which does have vocals coming out of the surrounds and the rear surrounds. Do you consider that a problem?

Attempted to do some testing last night to answer some of my own questions (dontcha love it when people want someone else to do all their thinking and decision making for them--and then probably grouse about the results ), and I temporarily positioned a good-sized center channel in what would be the rear surround sound position. Then proceeded to the early battle scenes of Master and Commander. Have to say, I thought I noticed probably a 50% improvement or more in what I am trying to accomplish.

Thank you again for taking your time and helping me with this. I know this is not high-level audio "rocket science", but it is important to me.

tonyb

Dude, high level, lower or midfi level, it's all audio and applicable. I think the reason your not getting the higher overhead sounds is exactly because of the vaulted ceiling sucking it up. Sound disperses in open areas, more open areas the more the sound fades quickly.

An in-wall, fairly high on that wall might help. I might be more inclined to get something with a tweeter you can aim and adjust like the polks though. Sounds like you really want the horns, so go get 'em bro. You know if you don't you'll always be second guessing yourself. My only concern here is, you can't change the placement on an in-wall speaker easily, which is why I might be more inclined to go with one that has an adjustable tweeter to better aim things.

Worst that can happen, you buy the horns, don't like them, re-sell them. You'll already have the holes cut out for the replacement. Don't overthink it, just make rational decisions that suit your needs.

My thinking was that an in-ceiling speaker will shoot down towards your ears to better suit the intended goal. The in-wall will have to bounce sounds of all walls and ceiling losing some impact.

jwb0007

tonyb wrote: »

I might be more inclined to get something with a tweeter you can aim and adjust like the polks though.

Makes sense, and your experience and history of good info/help focuses things for me. That is what I am going to do.

Merry Christmas!