Need Help-Joule Electra LA 100mkIII

kharp1

Just picked this unit up from a fellow Polkie and I have a few questions, most which could be answered by the manual. This unit did not come with a manual and am wondering if anyone here has access to one? I'm curious about tube compliment and biasing.

Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.

Kerry

Nightfall

You don't bias preamp tubes, am I missing something?

F1nut

No biasing required. Your model should use a single 5751 with a single 6350 mu follower. The power supply will have either two 13EM7 or two 6EM7 depending on what Jud had on hand. It should also have two OA2 voltage regulation tubes on the power supply side. You probably don't want to break those as they have low level radioactive gas in them, which gives them the very cool purple/pink color.

For the 5751, the Sylvania triple mica black plates with the D getter and yellow lettering are the best, great tone. Do not use the green lettered Sylvania grey plates, boring and flat sound.

For the 6350, RCA or one of it's rebadged versions such as Marconi.

For the 13EM7 or 6EM7, RCA.

For the OA2, it doesn't really matter much, IMO, but two of the preferred are CBS-HYTRON or Telefunken, if you can find those. The Tele's have one of coolest tube boxes I've seen.

kharp1

Wow, ask and you shall recieve! Thank you very much. It's only been running a few hours, but, of all the tube pieces I've had this one sounds the most challenged. I realize there is a curve, and these have just endured another trek across the continent, but, somethings not right. I'm more than happy to find the right set up and give it a good burn in to see what this can do. I remember reading reviews, both professional and actual owners, and thinking I hope I can own something like this some day. It's some day.

Note to others, do due diligence before buying. There are many "nice" pieces out there that have no support. The great thing with most is the topography is easily navigated with the most basic of resources.

This forum, proven again here, is one of the greatest resources an audio lover has.

I had the basic tube compliment down, however, I didn't know if there was a bias process. I was content with buying different tubes and experimenting each till I found what I liked. One question and one answer and I'm tube shopping. TIS THE SEASON! Put that Mullard down Granny or you'll lose a hip! God bless America and no where else.

F1nut

What is in it right now?

One other tip, always leave it in standby instead of turning it off.

As I said, no biasing is required, but there are trim pots in there. Something to do with the batteries, IIRC, but Jud told me those batteries would likely never need replacing.

F1nut

This is the 5751 you should look for. Pale yellow lettering dating from the late 1950's. I know nothing about this seller though.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-SYLVANIA-5751WA-Black-Plates-3-Mica-Square-Getter-Ecc83-12AX7-TUBE-/132014196569?nav=SEARCH

F1nut

Here's a pic of the Telefunken OA2 box I spoke of.

Still sealed

heiney9

Other 5751's that are superb in addition to the 50's Sylvania is the 60's Raytheon triple mica black plate with windmill getter and the 50's Tungsol. The Tung Sol's are probably one of the most underrated 5751's out there. The earlier 50's tubes are slightly better sounding than the later 60's halo version.

Enjoy

H9

tonyb

I'll second Jess's advice to leave it in standby mode. Is there something off with the sound your getting ?

If so, give us the run down on what it's connected to, cabling.....and maybe we can help you further. Jess already gave you the tube run down, but I'd imagine the tubes already in there are pretty decent.

erniejade

Everything F1 has said is spot on. I leave my LAP150A on standby.
If you ever need service on it, signaturesound https://www.facebook.com/Signature.Sound.HiFi/?fref=ts
You might be able to get a manual from him also.

What is off about the sound? What kind of sound do you like? Remember, the joule is known for a big bloom sound. If you like a more analytical sound, this is not a preamp for you. On my unit, the output is a hair lower vs other preamps I have had. I find myself having to turn the volume up about half way to get it to a normal level. When I talked to Rich at Signature, he said they do have a slightly lower level but, I can put jumpers in place to bring the level up but, doing that will also mess with the sound.

http://www.sigsound.com/FrameFiles/joule.htm

BlueMDPicker

kharp1 wrote: »

This unit did not come with a manual and am wondering if anyone here has access to one?
Kerry

Kerry,

If you are still in need of the manual, PM me your email address and I'll scan it into a PDF and forward to you.

Mike

tonyb

Big bloom sound is right Brian....but don't take that as a bloated sound either because it isn't. Nice detail, layered bass notes, mids to die for and a nice airy top end that if your speakers are capable of displaying, seem to float on forever. These Joule pre's on the used market are a steal imho. May not be everyone's cup of tea, but to these ears I'd gladly drink that tea every day.

kharp1

The system it's in at the moment is a Pass Labs Aleph 30, running a Marantz sa14s1 reference SACD player using Wireworld Silver Equinox interconnects and WW Equinox 7 biwire speaker cable to either Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference monitors or Usher cp-6311's. Compared to the United Electronics by Cary constellation tube pre, or even the Parasound P5 pre, it's soundstage is a bit more narrow and has little of the "bloom" that I'm used to with typical tube equipment. As erniejade mentioned, it comes across as more "analytical" and not as involving. I reached out to Rich Brkich at signature sound and he suggested that perhaps the tubes are originals and would put them at around 15 years old, so, I'm going to look for some different tubes and see what that does for me.

It's not that the sound is "bad" it's really more of I don't think it's as good as could be and not what I would expect from this piece.

kharp1

On a side note, how do I get my equipment listed at the bottom of the page, do I go to "signature" and list them there?

kharp1

Also want to say thanks to @WagnerRC for a great transaction. The Joule arrived a day earlier than promised and was packed extremely well. Great seller.

WagnerRC

Damn I really loved the sound of that. So much that I purchased th 300me. I liked the 100 even more than the X1. Maybe my hearing is not as good as I thought.

I really hope you find the right tubes to your liking. My music is 95%,classic rock 60's through 90's

erniejade

I owned tyler taylo reference monitors in the past.great sounding speaker. How do they do against the Ushers?

I also had a parasound p5. For a ss unit, it had good sound to it but, everything always seemed 5 rows up on the soundstage on my rig. When I had the p5, I alao had an audio research sp16. That had the soundstage right as far as where the singer should be placed in front but the p5 was actually a little wider. The joule that I have was wider then both and kept the singers in the same row as the audio research. At first I thought the 150 was too mellow and not as involving because it wasn't putting it down my throat like other preamps and after a while I found myseld listening to it louder. What I was hearing was a less fatigue sound and everything was still there in abundance and took a little bit to get used to. It is not an aggressive sounding preamp and with a lot of bloom. The detail is layered nicely big but not overblown. When im listening to lp or cd, I find myself enjoying the music more vs criticizing whats wrong with the sound.

After you change the tubes, give it a couple of weeks in the system to get used to the sound.

Also with the taylo, they are a mellow sounding speaker, if the Ushers are on the mellow side, it might be too much mello for your system.

erniejade

I need to stop typing after having a few on the cell phone!

At first I questioned the Joule since it was a completely different presentation of sound then I was used to. I have had some good preamps in the past. Carver c-19, Integra p306 and p309, McIntosh c39, c46, ARC sp16, parasound P5. On my rig, the joule is very different in sound. Its not in your face, its a bit relaxed and a lot of bloom and it almost seemed like something was missing until I got used to it. I figured out a lot of my fatigue when I kicked it up or longer listening wasn't my speakers it was my preamp! All the detail was there and then some but, just presented differently. It let everything through and on my rig, and it had a lot more texture to the sound without me getting ear fatigue or as I say shoving it in my face. I hope the tube change helps you but, before you go spending a ton of cash ( they can get $$$$) let it play in your rig for a few weeks.

Speaking of a more mellow sound, I sold my Taylo's to Juan. Because of the wider but more mellow sound of them, at first he didn't think they went as loud as they did and it took him a bit to get used to them. Since he got used to them, he wont give them up and sell them back to me! LOL. Those speakers have a lot of detail and one heck of a wide soundstage but, not fatiguing. I had the matching bass bins that had 4 8" woofers per bin.

JuanR

Those Taylo's do sound wonderful. They are definetly mellower - less fatiguing - wider sounstage, and is why I dont want to sell them back to erniejade. Now I am waiting for him to upgrade to the JE 300 so I can get that less superior 150 preamp in my stable.

kharp1 - if you can't get the JE 100mkIII to work with your system, shoot me an e-mail. Perhaps we can work something out.

Thanks
Juan

kharp1

I'm going to try putting some new tubes in and see what happens.

tonyb

DSkip wrote: »

WagnerRC wrote: »

Damn I really loved the sound of that. So much that I purchased th 300me. I liked the 100 even more than the X1. Maybe my hearing is not as good as I thought.

I really hope you find the right tubes to your liking. My music is 95%,classic rock 60's through 90's

Synergy brother. High end pieces require a lot of trial and error in synergy. This is something I've come to value as a dealer - we have knowledge on what works because we put in the effort to carry what works with the gear we carry. A lot rides on that synergy.

kharp1 wrote: »

I'm going to try putting some new tubes in and see what happens.

Yep, trial and error and synergy. I might argue from my personal observation though, with that Pass amp, you might be better off with a more lively pre-amp that has a bit more gain to it.

As Ernie pointed out, maybe too much mellow going on there in your system.

heiney9

I would never say a Pass amp is "mellow", but like Tony I am also a believer in synergy. Let's start with a fresh set of tubes and see where that goes. 9 years on the original tubes might be a good place to start.

H9

kharp1

Was doing a little research last night and I noticed in the manual, or a diagram in one of the manuals emailed to me, that gain is adjustable in several increments by switching out a set of jumpers.

erniejade

Correct but what rich told me it does change the sound slightly.

kharp1

Hmmm, what to do. I may just send it to Rich and have him replace the tubes, give it a once over, maybe adjust the gain if it won't kill the sound, and go from there.

george daniel

FWIW,,, My Joule just seems to play better with tube amps with my Tyler's (Taylos Monitors). I did upgrade some of the power supply caps about a year ago,and Rich was very helpful,, I would have no problems with sending my unit to him. Keep us posted as to your final impressions. Good luck!

kharp1

I appreciate all the help everyone has offered, that's what makes this forum great. I ordered new tunes and am going to let them burn in for a while once they arrive and see what happens then. It may end up going to Rich at some point just for a going over, but, for now I want to see what re-tubing does for it.

vcwatkins

I am surprised the La-100iii didn't match well with the (IMO) neutral Aleph 30, although I can imagine lower gain maybe being problematic depending on speakers and the room. I LOVED the Aleph with your Ushers. Most live sound I ever had. This was with Rogue 66 Magnum and Belles 20a pre. Don't know the gain on those offhand, but this was in a shallow room. Never went past 10 o'clock and never pushed the Pass. No experience with Tylers.

FWIW, the 5751 faltered in my Joule shortly after receiving (used), but it was an obvious sort of thing. No idea how many hours may have been on that tube.

Really wish I had tried the Pass with the Joule before moving the Aleph 30 to the beach. Not sure why I didn't. Likely because, when I tried the Aleph in the larger den with the Belles pre, it didn't have quite enough horsepower for the 1.2's.

Hope switching tubes works for you. Good luck!

WagnerRC

I am still wondering what I missed when I had the joule here. I was very happy with my system. I thought this was a slam dunk of a sale. I guess synergy is the key.

WagnerRC

I do have an aleph j headed this way that I can compare to my xa30.5. Which I really enjoy.

vcwatkins

WagnerRC wrote: »

I am still wondering what I missed when I had the joule here. I was very happy with my system. I thought this was a slam dunk of a sale. I guess synergy is the key.

Synergy is unpredictable; but I would have put good money on that being a stellar combo.

Kerry, if you have a decent 12ax7, you may want to try it in the meantime. Joule owners and tube guys please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the 5751 is lower in gain than a normal 12ax7 in this application. I tried a Mullard M10 and it sounded very good, but I don't recall noting any increased gain although it could have been present. Just wasn't something I was focusing on.