Trade RTi-A7s for RTi-A5s?

mdale

Hi. Have owned A7s for five years and been happy with them. Wondering whether I should trade them for A5s. System sounds good (IMO), but bass management is still not perfect; perhaps too many woofers competing for attention. A5s might reduce phase-cancellation and enhance the mid-range. AVR is running the surrounds (CSi-A6 & FXi-A6s), and separate amp is running the mains. Room is 3200 cf in open floor plan. Would the gains of trading A7s for A5s be insignificant? Your thoughts? Thank you.

mdale

Forgot to mention that this 5.1 system includes dual SVS SB-2000s. Thx!

rpf65

If I were you, I would start by looking at your sub. Could be just moving a foot or so could be your bass issue. Could need to be placed in a different part of the room. You may also try tweeting your phase, on the sub itself.

Each of the A7's subs should be in phase with each other, provided the speaker wire is the same length. So that leaves the sub. Being a couple degrees out of phase wouldn't be a big deal, but get around 15 or so degrees out of phase, and it could be noticeable, to a discerning ear.

F1nut

With dual subs there's no reason to be running the A7's full range. Cross them over at 80Hz.

Upstatemax

F1 is 100% correct. With dual SB2000's there is no reason to run the A7's as full range speakers.

But if you're going to let subs handle everything in the bottom end, then why even run A7's...

A5's with good subs are widely recognized as a better set up than A7's because of the A5's better mid range.

gp4jesus

rpf65 wrote: »

Each of the A7's subs should be in phase with each other, provided the speaker wire is the same length.

You're kidding right?! Unless one channel was 500-1000 X longer, and even then...

rpf65 wrote: »

So that leaves the sub. Being a couple degrees out of phase wouldn't be a big deal, but get around 15 or so degrees out of phase, and it could be noticeable, to a discerning ear.

quite possible if their outputs don't arrive w/in a few milliseconds of each other. Either that or one sub's room boundaries may be different enough from the other to create some canceling or re-enforcing standing waves. Even small adjustments of your LR* and/or subs might do it.
* such as distance from the wall behind them

mdale

Hi, thank you for your input! Also, wondering whether my Emotiva XPA-200, 2-channel, amp is adequately powering these RTi-A7s. The manual says it can deliver 150 watts per channel. Read elsewhere that these speakers should have at least 200 wpc. Your thoughts? Thank you.

rpf65

If the system is going to be used exclusively for HT, the Emo should be fine. If you are going to listen to music, I would suggest looking at a different brand.

Something like this would be better:

http://www.safeandsoundhq.com/Parasound-2250v2-2-Channel-Power-Amplifier?cat=45

mdale

Thank you for the recommendation! My primary interest is music, HT is second. What in particular do you like about this amp, and what should I look for in shopping for a similar amp?

Upstatemax

Parasound and RTi is a great combo.

My old A7's were connected to my HCA 1500A for a bit, the best they ever sounded.

tonyb

Moving down to the 5's from the 7's won't gain you anything with what you have. If anything you should move up, seems like a fairly large room.

The Parasound suggestion is a valid one, they mesh with the RTI' series speakers better than the Emotiva's. Not as harsh on the top end and a bit more detail.

How's your cabling too ? Everything matters in the sound your getting.

chumlie

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PARASOUND-HCA-1500A-HIGH-CURRENT-THX-AUDIOPHILE-AMPLIFIER/122342401833?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=41403&meid=4dc733c6a8cd445a93748f6ac6ae7587&pid=100011&rk=2&rkt=12&sd=252738673910

mdale

Thank you for your suggestions. The 1500A looks great. It's physically larger and heavier than my XPA200 - which shares space on a shelf with my AVR. So I will need to think about this before diving in.

gp4jesus

I think you're Ok but...
1. How loud & program material?
2. Space to fill - cathedral ceiling?
3. Where are the subs PU the heavy lifting - 80hz?
4. How sharp the filtering - 12dB/octave? 24dB?

In the early days w/my '7s, full range, a slightly less stout* 100WPC* Belles did a pretty respectable job filling the whole house - an open-floor plan w/cathedral ceilings
* compared to the Emo XPA-200 w/it's 240WPC into 4** ohms* & 45A peak current rating
** load drops to 4 ohms below 125hz

These days they handle everything above 50hz w/~4-5X available power and very stout connections.

My $0.02

mdale

Typical listening level is -20 to -10 dB below reference (as calculated by YPAO). Listen to CDs, LPs, Spotify, and Pandora; occasional BDs and DVDs. Room is 3200 cf and open floor plan to kitchen, etc. 8'-tall ceilings. Subs are crossed at 60 Hz (might change to 80 Hz as recommended by F1nut). Don't know how sharp the filtering.

rpf65

If your issue is with bass, and you like the rest of the sound, it's the subs. Two PB 2000 are adequate for 3200 sq ft, I checked with SVS a couple of years ago.

That said, it has to be an issue with sub/room interaction. So start with basics.

Do you have a lot of reflective surfaces: hard wood floors, leather wood glass furniture etc...

Where in the room are the subs positioned. Corner, opposing walls, distance from walls.

When you YPAO, was the house silent. No traffic outside, everybody out of the house or sleeping, a/c off as well as every other major appliance.

What are subs setting on, wood floor, carpet, isolation pad of some kind.

Did you try adjusting phase manually, before YPAO.

More info is a benefit, and will aid in helping you.

mdale

The setting for my mains has been changed to "small", and that has reduced the lobing sound of the bass. Right now, I feel the bass response is good. At this point, I'm mostly interested in knowing whether my 150 wpc amp is under-powering my RTi-A7s, and I think I've received an answer to that, as well. Thank you to everyone for your assistance! You all have been very helpful.

Upstatemax

If you're struggling with midrange, I don't think that the A7's are going to give you what you really want.

It's never been a strength of the A7's. Main reason I suggested looking at the A5's before.

If you're crossing them over at 60-80hrz, there is little reason you actually need more than good bookshelves...

My HT is in a 2400cf room, with bookshelves and a single SB2000 I have no issue dialing up the fun.

I think you're using the wrong speaker for what you want, sonically.

gp4jesus

2 more cents:

mdale wrote: »

Typical listening level is -20 to -10 dB below reference

-25 to -30 does a decent job filling my present space, not very open, 8'-tall ceilings. Doesn't really compare though - too many variables between our systems.

mdale wrote: »

Don't know how sharp the filtering.

Your AVR manual may specify

How reflective your system's space is will affect "LOUD," imaging, etc

Have fun on your journey. Tony

mdale

Not really struggling with midrange. Just wanted to know if my A7's were underpowered with the XPA-200. Thanks again for your thoughtful consideration.

Upstatemax

mdale wrote: »

Not really struggling with midrange. Just wanted to know if my A7's were underpowered with the XPA-200. Thanks again for your thoughtful consideration.

Made that assumption based off your original post...

I would not say that they are underpowered, but I learned that they do like power.

gp4jesus

Upstatemax wrote: »

mdale wrote: »

...Just wanted to know if my A7's were underpowered with the XPA-200.

I would not say that they are underpowered, but I learned that they do like power.

YUUUP! I triamped mine w/~500 watts each! Between them and a triamped CSi A6, "Days of Thunder" THUNDERS @ -9!

mdale

okay, thank you!