Any hope for fixing this amp??

mikejz84mikejz84 Posts: 158
edited April 2004 in 2 Channel Audio
Okay so I just picked up an SAE A-205 at a garage sale for $10. I got it home to test it, and it works fine out of one channel, but the other one is dead. I opened it up and quickly found out why. The board for that channel is covered with suet and one cap seems to of exploded with a metal rod coil expending from it. I know practically nothing about electronics repair, however I would like to know if it is worth trying to fix with amp. See pictures....

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Post edited by mikejz84 on

Comments

  • HBombTooHBombToo Posts: 5,335
    edited March 2004
    I would be most concerned with the integrity of the board. Looks badly burnt! The rails need to hold off alot lot of potential and if the boards dielectric properties have been seriously altered I would guess it wouldn't last long after replacing all the components.

    HBomb
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • disneyjoe7disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,520
    edited March 2004
    Well would give it a shot, but again being the time or money to fix all that fired I don't think it would be worth it in the long run. Only then if after cleaning the board with PC wash I may take into account the quality of the sound of that brand. I then may call it NFR short for Not Feasible to Repair.

    That Amp owner push it after that channel died, was possibly smoking something with his friends really wondering what that smell was…. Only later when his parents came running to find that the HOUSE wasn’t on fire, they pulled it out placed it on the shelve in the garage for the last 6-9 years till you bit on it.

    Some you win some you lose. :D

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    Electronics
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  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited March 2004
    Possibly it looks worse than it is. Remember that the boards are probably identical. With one working and the other not it doesn't take a lot of know how to fix it. So something is blown up, look on the other board to see what it is. Need to follow the signal path but don't know what it should look like? Look on the good board. If the tracks on the board are shot? Use a little jumper wire. As a start take a little rubbing alcohol and brush it around the board to clean it off so you can see what you have.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • disneyjoe7disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,520
    edited March 2004
    Well I do agree that it may look worst then it is on that side of board. But remember also that for this much current to flow and fry some wiring shown in picture there is some output transistor damage on the other side not shown.

    That is where it will add up.

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


  • mikejz84mikejz84 Posts: 158
    edited March 2004
    I cleaned off the PCB a Bit, and it sppears to be only two small aeras where the PCB has lost intergity, it seems to of been burned half though. I do not see any damage on the other side, but it is clear that there has been heat damage, while cleaning several diodes and resistors simply well apart.

    You are right, and it appears that the left channel is identical to the right channel.

    I can't do much more now, I am away at college and doing all of this in my dorm room :)

    Mar27008.JPG
    Mar27010.JPG
  • mikejz84mikejz84 Posts: 158
    edited March 2004
    P.s. Can anyone please send me the Audiogon bluebook on this amp.
  • disneyjoe7disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,520
    edited March 2004
    Gee all that damage and the Fuse looks like it's intact. :D

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


  • organorgan Posts: 5,022
    edited March 2004
    Have you tried calling around electronic repair shops
  • danger boydanger boy Posts: 15,888
    edited March 2004
    take it in and get an guesstimate on repairs. it might be worth it in the long run.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited March 2004
    Originally posted by mikejz84

    I can't do much more now, I am away at college and doing all of this in my dorm room :)

    Any Electrical engineering at your college? Maybe you can talk someone into looking at it for you? The parts will be fairly cheap. I would start by showing the transistors to someone and see if you can find them on the internet. The resistors and diodes shouldn't be any problem. A good power transistor may be only a few dollars and the smaller ones on the boards are less than a dollar. Resistors and diodes run from 0.10 to 0.65 each. Normally you can type in the part #'s in google and get some sources for them. Digikey and newark are good sources which take credit cards.

    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • WardswebWardsweb Posts: 871
    edited March 2004
    FYI: This amp was made by the now defunct Marubi company in Japan for DAK, who bought SAE from Morris Kessler (founder) after he got tired of the business. Sold through the DAK catalog, this was DAK's attempt to reach a larger low end market. It has nothing to do with the original SAE company other than name. It is not even listed in the Audio Blue book under SAE.

    From the looks of the board, that channel is a dead short. The amp actually caught fire. As the componant burned, it created all the soot and singed the surrounding wires. The entire channel will have to be rebuilt from the bias network on. Personally, I would not spend the time or money on this amp.
    Living room: Clearaudio Champion II turntable, EAR 834P phono pre, Auralic Altair DAC/server, PS Audio Quintessence power, DIY 6H30 Class A Linestage, ASL AQ1006 845 DT MKII mono block amplifers, DIY Altec/JBL speakers, DIY Baltic birch rack
    Sun room: DIY Nelson Pass B1 w/Korg NuTube pre, Technics SL-1700 turntable, DIY Anaview d-class mono block amplfiers, JBL C50 Olympus speakers with custom Smith horns, Mapleshade Samson rack
    Den: Onkyo TX-NR929 receiver, Oppo BDP-103 player, Behringer EP 4000 sub amp, Electrovoice DX-38 active, DIY EL-34 horn amp, Behringer NU6000 bass amp, Klipsch Jubilee speakers, Martin Logan Cinema center, JBL SAT2 surrounds, Danley DTS-10 sub
    Dining room: Pro-Ject RPM 1 turntable, Shanling CD-T1500 SACD, Sumo Athena pre, SST Ampzilla 2000 amps, Quad 2905 speakers
  • disneyjoe7disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,520
    edited March 2004
    Agree.

    Even if I was that Electronic Sudent 20 years ago. I say it's not worth the time or money...

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


  • mikejz84mikejz84 Posts: 158
    edited March 2004
    Originally posted by Wardsweb
    FYI: This amp was made by the now defunct Marubi company in Japan for DAK, who bought SAE from Morris Kessler (founder) after he got tired of the business. Sold through the DAK catalog, this was DAK's attempt to reach a larger low end market. It has nothing to do with the original SAE company other than name. It is not even listed in the Audio Blue book under SAE.


    Amp is made in USA, I checked online and it turns out to be the last amp that SAE made before being bought.

    Right Now It seems that I have four options:

    1. Try and fix it--If I can do it for $30-40 in parts I would say its worth it
    2. Use the case and some PSU parts and build a gainclone
    3. Sell it for parts on ebay--I think I would get $50-$100
    4. Use its one good channel and use it to drive a subwoofer. (Maybe combind that caps for more power).
  • WardswebWardsweb Posts: 871
    edited March 2004
    Originally posted by mikejz84
    Amp is made in USA, I checked online and it turns out to be the last amp that SAE made before being bought.

    Please let me know where you found this information, as I've always believed this series to have been made after the SAE TWO series which was when SAE was sold.
    Living room: Clearaudio Champion II turntable, EAR 834P phono pre, Auralic Altair DAC/server, PS Audio Quintessence power, DIY 6H30 Class A Linestage, ASL AQ1006 845 DT MKII mono block amplifers, DIY Altec/JBL speakers, DIY Baltic birch rack
    Sun room: DIY Nelson Pass B1 w/Korg NuTube pre, Technics SL-1700 turntable, DIY Anaview d-class mono block amplfiers, JBL C50 Olympus speakers with custom Smith horns, Mapleshade Samson rack
    Den: Onkyo TX-NR929 receiver, Oppo BDP-103 player, Behringer EP 4000 sub amp, Electrovoice DX-38 active, DIY EL-34 horn amp, Behringer NU6000 bass amp, Klipsch Jubilee speakers, Martin Logan Cinema center, JBL SAT2 surrounds, Danley DTS-10 sub
    Dining room: Pro-Ject RPM 1 turntable, Shanling CD-T1500 SACD, Sumo Athena pre, SST Ampzilla 2000 amps, Quad 2905 speakers
  • mikejz84mikejz84 Posts: 158
    edited March 2004
    It says "Designed and manufactured by SAE. Los Angeles, USA" on the back of the amp:)
  • WardswebWardsweb Posts: 871
    edited March 2004
    DAK bought the full rights to SAE including the right to market it as SAE. As long as final assembly is done in the US, it can be marketed as built in the US. You will notice this amp used Tohsiba TO-220 output while all SAE amps used Sanken TO-3 metal case output transistors. Even the SAE TWO line was farmed out to Japan and several used STK Power Pak modules in place of descrete outputs.

    If you would like third party clarification you may ask on the SAE Talk Forums:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SAE_Talk/
    Living room: Clearaudio Champion II turntable, EAR 834P phono pre, Auralic Altair DAC/server, PS Audio Quintessence power, DIY 6H30 Class A Linestage, ASL AQ1006 845 DT MKII mono block amplifers, DIY Altec/JBL speakers, DIY Baltic birch rack
    Sun room: DIY Nelson Pass B1 w/Korg NuTube pre, Technics SL-1700 turntable, DIY Anaview d-class mono block amplfiers, JBL C50 Olympus speakers with custom Smith horns, Mapleshade Samson rack
    Den: Onkyo TX-NR929 receiver, Oppo BDP-103 player, Behringer EP 4000 sub amp, Electrovoice DX-38 active, DIY EL-34 horn amp, Behringer NU6000 bass amp, Klipsch Jubilee speakers, Martin Logan Cinema center, JBL SAT2 surrounds, Danley DTS-10 sub
    Dining room: Pro-Ject RPM 1 turntable, Shanling CD-T1500 SACD, Sumo Athena pre, SST Ampzilla 2000 amps, Quad 2905 speakers
  • HBombTooHBombToo Posts: 5,335
    edited March 2004
    Originally posted by mikejz84

    2. Use the case and some PSU parts and build a gainclone

    NOW where talken!!!

    HBomb
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • WardswebWardsweb Posts: 871
    edited March 2004
    You will notice the sentence starts out with "I believe" and that he did indeed buy it from DAK. Furthering to substantiate my previous statement. Again, you may ask the gurus over at the SAE Forum, including James Bongiorno who was the chief design engineer at SAE. All equipment designed after he left was farmed out, as they had no other audio engineers on staff by then.
    Living room: Clearaudio Champion II turntable, EAR 834P phono pre, Auralic Altair DAC/server, PS Audio Quintessence power, DIY 6H30 Class A Linestage, ASL AQ1006 845 DT MKII mono block amplifers, DIY Altec/JBL speakers, DIY Baltic birch rack
    Sun room: DIY Nelson Pass B1 w/Korg NuTube pre, Technics SL-1700 turntable, DIY Anaview d-class mono block amplfiers, JBL C50 Olympus speakers with custom Smith horns, Mapleshade Samson rack
    Den: Onkyo TX-NR929 receiver, Oppo BDP-103 player, Behringer EP 4000 sub amp, Electrovoice DX-38 active, DIY EL-34 horn amp, Behringer NU6000 bass amp, Klipsch Jubilee speakers, Martin Logan Cinema center, JBL SAT2 surrounds, Danley DTS-10 sub
    Dining room: Pro-Ject RPM 1 turntable, Shanling CD-T1500 SACD, Sumo Athena pre, SST Ampzilla 2000 amps, Quad 2905 speakers
  • mikejz84mikejz84 Posts: 158
    edited March 2004
    At this point I really don't care about where it was built. I am just trying to do a cost/benefit on what I should do with it. The one channel that does work, sounds quite good--Right now I am running an H/K AVR 525 receiver. I just am looking for some ideas as what the future of this amp holds in store.
  • WardswebWardsweb Posts: 871
    edited March 2004
    Given Tohisba 100 watt ouput transistors, the 2SC3281 and 2SA1302 are typcial complimentary pairs for this type of amp. They can be had at Digikey for about $2.50 each. You will still need to replace all the bias transistors, signal path resistors, caps and diodes. If you can do this yourself, you can get out of this for little money. I don't think it would be worth sending to a shop, as they would charge you $100-$150 for this kind of repair.
    Living room: Clearaudio Champion II turntable, EAR 834P phono pre, Auralic Altair DAC/server, PS Audio Quintessence power, DIY 6H30 Class A Linestage, ASL AQ1006 845 DT MKII mono block amplifers, DIY Altec/JBL speakers, DIY Baltic birch rack
    Sun room: DIY Nelson Pass B1 w/Korg NuTube pre, Technics SL-1700 turntable, DIY Anaview d-class mono block amplfiers, JBL C50 Olympus speakers with custom Smith horns, Mapleshade Samson rack
    Den: Onkyo TX-NR929 receiver, Oppo BDP-103 player, Behringer EP 4000 sub amp, Electrovoice DX-38 active, DIY EL-34 horn amp, Behringer NU6000 bass amp, Klipsch Jubilee speakers, Martin Logan Cinema center, JBL SAT2 surrounds, Danley DTS-10 sub
    Dining room: Pro-Ject RPM 1 turntable, Shanling CD-T1500 SACD, Sumo Athena pre, SST Ampzilla 2000 amps, Quad 2905 speakers
  • danger boydanger boy Posts: 15,888
    edited March 2004
    well none of us can know the damage just from the pictures.. take the damn thing in and get an estimate on repairs.

    last month i had a vintage Yamaha amp repaired.. and i was counting on repairs being in the $80 to $100 range. well, it was only 1/3 of that to fix.. total cost of my right channel out on the amp was ONLY $32.31 much less expensive than what everyone was saying it would cost to fix. take it to a reputable repair shop and find out for yourself how much it will cost. people in here can only guess on what it will run. none of us have crystal balls.. hee hee :p maybe brass ones. but not crystal :D
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
  • mikejz84mikejz84 Posts: 158
    edited April 2004
    Sold it on ebay for $74 to a buyer from Italy. The shipping will in all odds be more then the amp!
  • Tour2maTour2ma Old School Posts: 10,176
    edited April 2004
    He probably got excited when he read your disclaimer...
    THIS AMP'S RIGHT CHANNEL IS BLOW
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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