Very low treble/high freq response from TL250 sat speakers
usnlieutenant
Posts: 15
in Speakers
Hello All,
So I just got a brand new set of TL250 sat speakers, hooked them up with a B&W sub and a Yamaha HTR-5950 A/V receiver. The receiver is your typical A/V, nothing to write home about, but a reasonable performer. It has a few features, including tonal control (bass/treble, +- 10db).
For some reason, I cannot get the TL250 sat to produce high freq response. The sound comes out very "warm," not crisp at all. One of the main reasons for me to buy the TL was that I was hoping for a crisp, crystal sound, i.e. the high rotating of the helicopter blades or the afterburner sound of a jet flying in a movie. The other reason was for the slick look of the TL250. Currently have all 4 sats hung on wall, with center channel underneath my TV.
Can someone help me with how to increase this treble or high freq to my sats, please?
I have tried different settings, with very low bass and high treble on the A/V, didnt work. Also, tried flat bass and treble, no changes there, and my A/V doesn't have an EQ to play with either.
Thank you all.
James
So I just got a brand new set of TL250 sat speakers, hooked them up with a B&W sub and a Yamaha HTR-5950 A/V receiver. The receiver is your typical A/V, nothing to write home about, but a reasonable performer. It has a few features, including tonal control (bass/treble, +- 10db).
For some reason, I cannot get the TL250 sat to produce high freq response. The sound comes out very "warm," not crisp at all. One of the main reasons for me to buy the TL was that I was hoping for a crisp, crystal sound, i.e. the high rotating of the helicopter blades or the afterburner sound of a jet flying in a movie. The other reason was for the slick look of the TL250. Currently have all 4 sats hung on wall, with center channel underneath my TV.
Can someone help me with how to increase this treble or high freq to my sats, please?
I have tried different settings, with very low bass and high treble on the A/V, didnt work. Also, tried flat bass and treble, no changes there, and my A/V doesn't have an EQ to play with either.
Thank you all.
James
Comments
-
usnlieutenant wrote: »One of the main reasons for me to buy the TL was that I was hoping for a crisp, crystal sound, i.e. the high rotating of the helicopter blades or the afterburner sound of a jet flying in a movie.
James
I can't answer your question directly BUT I can say that the sounds you lust after have blown more speakers than I can shake a stick at. Be very careful with the volume with those sounds.
-
usnlieutenant wrote: »One of the main reasons for me to buy the TL was that I was hoping for a crisp, crystal sound, i.e. the high rotating of the helicopter blades or the afterburner sound of a jet flying in a movie.
James
I can't answer your question directly BUT I can say that the sounds you lust after have blown more speakers than I can shake a stick at. Be very careful with the volume with those sounds.
I concur with you opinion. However, I still think that my current system setup is not what I expect it to be or at least ideally what I would like it to be. It feels like the sub is really powerful putting out low freq response. I mean we're talking B&W Ero series. The wife continuing complaining our den is shaking, even though I only had the volume at relatively low and the volume output from the sub itself is at 50%.
The room is approximately 400 sqft. -
I had a Yamaha HTR 5590 which is similar to yours. First thing I would do is set the DSP to 5 channel stereo and see if the same thing happens there. If it does report back.Just a dude doing dude-ly things
"Temptation is the manifestation of desire which equals necessity." - Mikey081057
" I have always had a champange taste with a beer budget" - Rick88
"Just because the thread is getting views don't mean much .. I like a good train wreck doesn't mean i want to be in one..." - pitdogg2
"Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know." - heiney9
"Audiophiles are the male equivalent of cat ladies." - Audiokarma Member -
Also plug the speaker into another amplifier/AVR if you have it and see if the issue follows, could be a bad tweeter or crossover issue.Just a dude doing dude-ly things
"Temptation is the manifestation of desire which equals necessity." - Mikey081057
" I have always had a champange taste with a beer budget" - Rick88
"Just because the thread is getting views don't mean much .. I like a good train wreck doesn't mean i want to be in one..." - pitdogg2
"Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know." - heiney9
"Audiophiles are the male equivalent of cat ladies." - Audiokarma Member -
codycatalist wrote: »I had a Yamaha HTR 5590 which is similar to yours. First thing I would do is set the DSP to 5 channel stereo and see if the same thing happens there. If it does report back.
I will try this tonite and report back with the settings. Thanks! -
codycatalist wrote: »Also plug the speaker into another amplifier/AVR if you have it and see if the issue follows, could be a bad tweeter or crossover issue.
I don't have another receiver/amp available to try, but possibly this weekend, when I can borrow from a friend, I'll try connect to another receiver/amp and we'll see. -
usnlieutenant wrote: »codycatalist wrote: »I had a Yamaha HTR 5590 which is similar to yours. First thing I would do is set the DSP to 5 channel stereo and see if the same thing happens there. If it does report back.
I will try this tonite and report back with the settings. Thanks!
So I did what you suggested, see attached pics, but unfortunately no significant changes can be heard from the sats. There is still sound coming from the sats, just not crisp and/or crystal clear. It sounds as if there's no stereo.
I have the following parameters setup:
sub LFE crossover freq: 80Hz
crossover freq set on the A/V: 80Hz
all 4 sats and center channel set to "small"
I bumped the gains on the sats to +3db for the front, and +2db for the surround rears
I lowered the sub gain to -2db since I get a lot of oomph from the sub
-
This is tough to diagnose without being there in person.
But, could the sub simply be too loud and overpowering everything else?
I realize you said it is turned down some from the initial setting, but some subs can put out a very loud bass sound even at 900-1000 O'clock settings of volume control.
What if you try it with sub far lower?? Does it still sound like high tones are lacking?
The TL 250 speakers are not the most efficient, and that combined with a sub that is loud even at lower volume control levels could really throw off the tonal balance.
Also, 80hz is a good bit too low for the TL250 speakers. More like 120 Hz would be proper.
FYI, we have one Velodyne Subwoofer, that anything beyond 9:00 O'clock volume setting is overpowering.
-
This is tough to diagnose without being there in person.
But, could the sub simply be too loud and overpowering everything else?
I realize you said it is turned down some from the initial setting, but some subs can put out a very loud bass sound even at 900-1000 O'clock settings of volume control.
What if you try it with sub far lower?? Does it still sound like high tones are lacking?
The TL 250 speakers are not the most efficient, and that combined with a sub that is loud even at lower volume control levels could really throw off the tonal balance.
Also, 80hz is a good bit too low for the TL250 speakers. More like 120 Hz would be proper.
FYI, we have one Velodyne Subwoofer, that anything beyond 9:00 O'clock volume setting is overpowering.
Yes, it could be that the sub maybe too overpowering, but I did try to lower the volume output on the sub at the 4th white dot from the Min position (around 10:00 o'clock) but then that didn't produce enough bass. So now I left it at around 11-12 o'clock position.
I basically followed the suggestion of leaving everything at 80Hz x-over. However I can try at 120Hz to see how it sounds. Does this mean that I should change the x-over to 120Hz on both the A/V and the sub?
Btw, the B&W sub that I have is really is powerful. Just turning up the master volume on the A/V can really thump the room, shaking it, as if we're experiencing a 5.0 tremor.
Thanks! -
I would only use the low pass on the A/V receiver, and bypass the crossover in the sub. You do not need 2 crossovers operating at same time.
Yes try 120hz and see how it sounds, with volume a bit lower on sub. -
completely agree no cascading crossovers in the mixI would only use the low pass on the A/V receiver, and bypass the crossover in the sub. You do not need 2 crossovers operating at same time.
-
I would also recommend bumping the crossover up to at least 120Hz, and setting all the speakers to "small" in the MANUAL / SOUND MENU / SPEAKER SET. (edit: I now see you already did that). The subwoofer should be set to SWFR. Since the receiver is doing the crossover the subs crossover should be set much higher than what the receiver is set to or off.
When setting the respective volumes (sounds like static) the sub will sound much quieter to your ear. You can only really set this with a meter, or if you have an idea of the relative difference in audible volume.
I recommend using the DIRECT STEREO mode with a CD you are familiar with at a moderate volume. There will be very little bass, but it will give you a good reference for the volume, and how the higher frequencies should sound. I don't know if the receiver will run full range to the speakers or if the crossover is still active. I know the sub is not active. Do all comparisons from your listening position.
Turn the sub off, and compare this to the regular stereo mode. It should sound the same. If the crossover becomes active you may notice less bass, or you could lower the crossover setting temporarily. If it sounds different, there must be some setting in the receiver throwing things off.
Then compare it to the artificial surround sound setting. The treble frequencies should be similar. The only EQ is for the center channel. For now make sure it is flat. If it sounds different, there must be some other setting in the receiver throwing things off.
Now to set the sub volume. Switch back the regular stereo mode, NOT Direct Stereo. Set the crossover frequency to 120Hz or 160Hz. Set the Sub volume to nominal on the receiver, and turn it all the way down on the sub. Turn the sub on, and slowly raise the volume on the sub until it is just starting to blend with the speakers. Walk back to the listening position and see how it sounds. Raise the sub volume and see how it sounds. When it is in the ball park you can may fine adjustments from the receiver. I don't know if different modes have different relative volume settings, but I think they should all use the same settings for room and speaker locations. If things sound different in other modes, you should verify this.
This should get you very close for movies as well. You may want to tweak a few things based on personal preference. -
By the way, what kind of tv and how are you connecting it to your AVR?Just a dude doing dude-ly things
"Temptation is the manifestation of desire which equals necessity." - Mikey081057
" I have always had a champange taste with a beer budget" - Rick88
"Just because the thread is getting views don't mean much .. I like a good train wreck doesn't mean i want to be in one..." - pitdogg2
"Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know." - heiney9
"Audiophiles are the male equivalent of cat ladies." - Audiokarma Member -
codycatalist wrote: »By the way, what kind of tv and how are you connecting it to your AVR?
I have a 60" samsung LEDTV, connected to the A/V via the optical digital audio out port on the TV. I also connected my set-top-box to the TV via HDMI. -
The 120hz, without the cascading crossovers, improves the sats a bit (sounds louder than previously), but not as crisp and clear as I would like. Also turned down the sub volume to about 9 o'clock position.
I'm rather disappointed at these sats at this point. No improvement from my previous setup at all. I had a 6.1 yamaha setup prior to this. I think it's a mistake on my part to purchase these TL250 sats without checking them out first.
My goal was to try to have a similar profile as the Bose cubes sats. They sound really nice in a movie setting.
Thanks for all your help though. Much appreciated and learned quite a bit about audio.
-
What was your previous set up?
Just curious, most would easily consider the Bose set up, lesser in quality to the Polk TL series.
In fact, honestly, I have heard the TL250 sats, (do not own them) and was fairly impressed with their sound quality for the size and simply overall.
They were impressively, clean and clear sounding, and when I heard a demo, With a sub, while not looking to purchase anything, almost felt I wanted some!
Maybe something is wrong still? -
What was your previous set up?
Just curious, most would easily consider the Bose set up, lesser in quality to the Polk TL series.
In fact, honestly, I have heard the TL250 sats, (do not own them) and was fairly impressed with their sound quality for the size and simply overall.
They were impressively, clean and clear sounding, and when I heard a demo, With a sub, while not looking to purchase anything, almost felt I wanted some!
Maybe something is wrong still?
My previous setup was an older Yamaha 6.1 system. Had 2 bookshelf full range speakers, 1 center channel and 3 rear sats. I wanted to upgrade since I got a B&W sub that's pretty powerful, and I kind of wanted to have that Bose cubes sat sounds, meaning clean, clear and crsip, but i'm not getting those quality. Yeah, perhaps something's amiss, but I'm not sure what it is..Another thing is that I don't have a bluray disc to try out. I'm just using a STB with cable TV right now to test out. -
What was your previous set up?
Just curious, most would easily consider the Bose set up, lesser in quality to the Polk TL series.
In fact, honestly, I have heard the TL250 sats, (do not own them) and was fairly impressed with their sound quality for the size and simply overall.
They were impressively, clean and clear sounding, and when I heard a demo, With a sub, while not looking to purchase anything, almost felt I wanted some!
Maybe something is wrong still?
I guess my other option now is to try it out with another A/V, possibly a more power one, to test out the parameters again. -
usnlieutenant wrote: »codycatalist wrote: »By the way, what kind of tv and how are you connecting it to your AVR?
I have a 60" samsung LEDTV, connected to the A/V via the optical digital audio out port on the TV. I also connected my set-top-box to the TV via HDMI.
is the optical for over the air antenna TO the receiver? please clarify. -
the optical digital audio cable is connected from the TV to the A/V
-
usnlieutenant wrote: »the optical digital audio cable is connected from the TV to the A/V
that i understand why? The only reason I can think for that is to send over the air Antenna sound to the receiver to decode Dolby Digital other than that your sound from say a cable box should go the the RECEIVER first not to the TV then to the receiver. ALL your HDMI should be carrying the sound from cable box etc to the receiver.
I do not understand why the optical is going to receiver -
usnlieutenant wrote: »the optical digital audio cable is connected from the TV to the A/V
that i understand why? The only reason I can think for that is to send over the air Antenna sound to the receiver to decode Dolby Digital other than that your sound from say a cable box should go the the RECEIVER first not to the TV then to the receiver. ALL your HDMI should be carrying the sound from cable box etc to the receiver.
I do not understand why the optical is going to receiver
I sort of followed the connection diagram from the A/V, the TV, and it indicates to either use composite audio, or component video, and the best connection for audio would be optical digital audio. -
usnlieutenant wrote: »the optical digital audio cable is connected from the TV to the A/V
that i understand why? The only reason I can think for that is to send over the air Antenna sound to the receiver to decode Dolby Digital other than that your sound from say a cable box should go the the RECEIVER first not to the TV then to the receiver. ALL your HDMI should be carrying the sound from cable box etc to the receiver.
I do not understand why the optical is going to receiver
Perhaps you could describe your connection setup and I'll try that. Currently this is what I have:
TV
set top box STB, for satellite TV
A/V
I have all the necessary cables to connect. Thanks. -
all mine go to HDMI to receiver then one HDMI out to TV
So Dish hopper HDMI to receiver, blu-ray HDMI to receiver and HDMI out from receiver to TV.
Now I do have a 40' TV tower with a deep fringe channel master antenna that I use and that coax comes down to TV and then optical goes to receiver from TV for all the Dolby Digital info for surround sound.
let the receiver do the switching for everything if you can. -
all mine go to HDMI to receiver then one HDMI out to TV
So Dish hopper HDMI to receiver, blu-ray HDMI to receiver and HDMI out from receiver to TV.
Now I do have a 40' TV tower with a deep fringe channel master antenna that I use and that coax comes down to TV and then optical goes to receiver from TV for all the Dolby Digital info for surround sound.
let the receiver do the switching for everything if you can.
so from what i gather, you connect the optical digital from your TV to the A/V? -
usnlieutenant wrote: »all mine go to HDMI to receiver then one HDMI out to TV
So Dish hopper HDMI to receiver, blu-ray HDMI to receiver and HDMI out from receiver to TV.
Now I do have a 40' TV tower with a deep fringe channel master antenna that I use and that coax comes down to TV and then optical goes to receiver from TV for all the Dolby Digital info for surround sound.
let the receiver do the switching for everything if you can.
so from what i gather, you connect the optical digital from your TV to the A/V?
correct but only because of the TV antenna IF I didn't have the Over The Air antenna going to the TUNER in the TV there would be no need for the optical.
DO you have OTA antenna? Because from what I understand from most TV's only the tuner in the TV for native broadcast from an antenna will send any signal back to the Receiver that is why I am asking ...It seems unneeded
This has nothing to do with the problem you are having with the speakers I see, but in reading through it just seems to be unnecessary in your case. -
usnlieutenant wrote: »all mine go to HDMI to receiver then one HDMI out to TV
So Dish hopper HDMI to receiver, blu-ray HDMI to receiver and HDMI out from receiver to TV.
Now I do have a 40' TV tower with a deep fringe channel master antenna that I use and that coax comes down to TV and then optical goes to receiver from TV for all the Dolby Digital info for surround sound.
let the receiver do the switching for everything if you can.
so from what i gather, you connect the optical digital from your TV to the A/V?
correct but only because of the TV antenna IF I didn't have the Over The Air antenna going to the TUNER in the TV there would be no need for the optical.
DO you have OTA antenna? Because from what I understand from most TV's only the tuner in the TV for native broadcast from an antenna will send any signal back to the Receiver that is why I am asking ...It seems unneeded
This has nothing to do with the problem you are having with the speakers I see, but in reading through it just seems to be unnecessary in your case.
i always had the optical digital audio connected from the TV to the A/V in the past, even with other system setup beside this one. I don't use OTA antenna. There's no OTA signals where i live..I had to use either cable (Cox) or satellite (Dish, DirectTV) and I have Dish right now. -
I've also used them in the past with other Dish receivers but the hopper supports HDMI so there is no need to use Optical for me know except OTA
