Traditionalist or Progressive; 2-channel or Surround processing?

tonyb

cfrizz wrote: »

If you have good gear, and not the bottom of the barrel gear hooked up to good speakers like Polks, it is very easy to enjoy both two channel and multi channel on one system. Actually the majority aren't even thinking two channel vs multi channel, they are simply thinking of watching movies, tv, and maybe listening to music.

It is only the audiophiles that have all these nonsense rules, barriers, and classifications. Just so that they can claim that something is superior.

The vast majority of consumers ignore all the snobby BS, and are simply looking for good affordable gear so that they can enjoy their movies and maybe some music if they happen to think to play it on a system as opposed to their phones.

what rules or barriers would those be Cathy ? I'm not aware of any. Classifications are there to educate, not turn your nose up at. Remember, audio is a game played on many levels and some just can't comprehend the levels others reach.

You can take the same thing into other areas too. A Coach purse, are you a snob if you own one ? Designer clothes in general, a Wolf Range, A Mercedes, even better food or wine ?

I won't deny a level of snobbery in audio, but it exists also in just about everything in life. Snobbery is a characteristic of the person, not the product.

[Deleted User]

If you only listen to John Denver go mono with one speaker.

voltz

LOL most of the 80 new-wave songs I had really only heard when i was young and watching MTV thru a TV speaker. the other day I collect a bunch of these new wave - techno pop songs and hearing them on my 2 channel setup really put a smile on my face as I never knew some of these songs had so much ambient sounds going on in the background.

some Thompson twins - Steve winwood -robet plamer etc... like visiting old friends who never sounded so good.

honestaquarian

tonyb wrote: »

cfrizz wrote: »

If you have good gear, and not the bottom of the barrel gear hooked up to good speakers like Polks, it is very easy to enjoy both two channel and multi channel on one system. Actually the majority aren't even thinking two channel vs multi channel, they are simply thinking of watching movies, tv, and maybe listening to music.

It is only the audiophiles that have all these nonsense rules, barriers, and classifications. Just so that they can claim that something is superior.

The vast majority of consumers ignore all the snobby BS, and are simply looking for good affordable gear so that they can enjoy their movies and maybe some music if they happen to think to play it on a system as opposed to their phones.

what rules or barriers would those be Cathy ? I'm not aware of any. Classifications are there to educate, not turn your nose up at. Remember, audio is a game played on many levels and some just can't comprehend the levels others reach.

You can take the same thing into other areas too. A Coach purse, are you a snob if you own one ? Designer clothes in general, a Wolf Range, A Mercedes, even better food or wine ?

I won't deny a level of snobbery in audio, but it exists also in just about everything in life. Snobbery is a characteristic of the person, not the product.

What he said too

txcoastal1

I'll follow up on Tony's comments. If you're truly an audiophile/hobbyist you will listen to systems and acknowledge them by sound that was accomplished by the associated gear.
The perfect example was Darryl's (Voltz) room at LSAF.
http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/171518/lone-star-audio-fest-2016/p5

Very modest system that made good music. There was not one person in that room who didn't enjoy the music that night...and there were some pretty hardcore audiophiles in that room.

mhardy6647

1. I know several of the regional hifi gurus up here in Northern New England who have set up very (very) serious monaural systems to listen to mono recordings -- including 78s.

A semi-serious mono system was on my bucket list when we moved up to NH. Unfortunately, I filled in my space with too much of my junk &, to date, don't have a place to set one up. Still something of a pipe-dream though.

2. Face's post above is interesting. An interesting corollary of standard-issue hifi snobbery is the "reverse snobbery" that, unfortunately, isn't uncommon among dumpster-diver and vintage-audio aficionados.

I have (and I'm not proud of this) fallen into that behavior more than occasionally. Not as much as I used to, but I still have some... nonlinearities... in my reaction to certain hifi products and beliefs, especially those that are pseudoscientific, (sometimes deliberately) anti-scientific or downright irrational.

[Deleted User]

^^^^ I want to do that around my Bozak 300a.
Lazy me.

mhardy6647

So... I have this single, somewhat homely looking K-15 in the basement... which I have loaded with this...

DSCN5839 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
DSCN5837 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

tat

mhardy6647 wrote: »

1. I know several of the regional hifi gurus up here in Northern New England who have set up very (very) serious monaural systems to listen to mono recordings -- including 78s.

A semi-serious mono system was on my bucket list when we moved up to NH. Unfortunately, I filled in my space with too much of my junk &, to date, don't have a place to set one up. Still something of a pipe-dream though.

2. Face's post above is interesting. An interesting corollary of standard-issue hifi snobbery is the "reverse snobbery" that, unfortunately, isn't uncommon among dumpster-diver and vintage-audio aficionados.

I have (and I'm not proud of this) fallen into that behavior more than occasionally. Not as much as I used to, but I still have some... nonlinearities... in my reaction to certain hifi products and beliefs, especially those that are pseudoscientific, (sometimes deliberately) anti-scientific or downright irrational.

Best thing about a mono system is the great music only available in mono
To reproduce those gems well will make me smile.

As for snobbery, its all about authentic lifelike RE-production for me. Their is a measure by which to guage performance, and that generally is live performance. I am deeply into the quality of the sounds vs. other things like stage-shows and even lyrics; as one jazz great commented, "the singer might as well be a horn" as far as Im concerned.

[Deleted User]

I disconnected the front two speakers in my car tonight.

mhardy6647

I'm sittin' here listening to the bonus track live version of Cosmic Charlie from the Rhino expanded CD version of aoxomoxoa (the remix, in this case, not the original mix) on the Duplexes -- and it is mighty fine indeed.

Mighty fine indeed.

FTGV

mhardy6647 wrote: »

one guess.

080 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

Clearly a CD 4 Quad set up.There's two more speakers behind the couch.

FTGV

rednedtugent wrote: »

I disconnected the front two speakers in my car tonight.

Ahh yes.I fondly remember the simpler days with the Jensen Triaxials in the rear deck of the Dodge Dart pounding out Ted Nugent Double Live Gonzo on 8 track.

RandyCroissant

I had a pair of speakers in my Chevelle called mind blowers, each one had a little amp mounted on it Loud n proud..

mhardy6647

FTGV wrote: »

mhardy6647 wrote: »

one guess.

080 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

Clearly a CD 4 Quad set up.There's two more speakers behind the couch.

There are, in fact

IMG_0122 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

FTGV

Nice.Is it's mate in as good a shape?Those could not have been dumper finds.

mhardy6647

Yup -- I don't seem to have a photo of both; need to rectify that.

They weren't dumpster finds per se. They were on the swap pile at the 'transfer station' (modern equivalent of a dump -- sans the dump part) in our old town (Harvard,MA). I do miss that dump

FTGV

Really! Who gets rid of a minty pair of Allisons?Were the drivers OK?

FTGV

Back on topic,for serious music listening I'm strictly a 2 ch kind a guy.I tried the multi ch set up in the early days of DVD Audio and multi ch SACD's.While entertaining it got old quick.For the most part because of the strange mixing decisions made by recording engineers.Many over used the rear channels instead of just using them to add a touch of ambience.
My movie and sat TV sound is always via a 4.2 set up.

mhardy6647

FTGV wrote: »

Really! Who gets rid of a minty pair of Allisons?Were the drivers OK?

Woofers needed to be refoamed; drivers were all ok except one woofer had been de-coned; I suspect that happened in situ at the dump (danged kids, you know?)

mhardy6647

I tried to take a photo of both of 'em in situ... but I was loath to move the futon, which was... kinda in the way.

At any rate, here's at least a glimpse of both of the Allison Ones upstairs.

DSC_5795a by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

DSC_5794a by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

crashb4

tonyb wrote: »

We all have our own preferences on how we enjoy music, nothing new there. Each has it's merits.

Many of us have been on that merry-go round of formats. 2 channel, quad, 5.1, HT and all that offers. We usually settle somewhere in the middle either with separate systems for HT and 2 channel, or one system to handle both.

Tell ya what though, from what I see, more people than not come full circle back to 2 channel for musical enjoyment.

This describes me and I am sure many others. At the beginning of the digital storage age, I ripped my CD collection and got rid of all of my discs. I got a sub - satellite setup and used it for HT and two channel listening. It didn't take long to realize the shortcomings of the system. I spent many years suffering with the decision and nearly quit the hobby altogether. When I decided to make a change, I had no real equipment and no source material. My first decent two channel setup revealed how bad the ripped music actually was. To anyone thinking about replacing their traditional two channel equipment and source material; take my advice and avoid a costly mistake. Save the money to get your HT and keep your two channel. You will save $ thousands in the end.

[Deleted User]

There are plenty of DACs and PREs where you can have both and share duty with both multi channel and two channel. Adding up what have spent in multi-channel would not get me some big boy bookshelf speakers, but does give me a nice 11.1 system.

tonyb

Well now hold the phone a second. I wasn't exactly on board with digital either at first. Thing is, no matter which format you use, everything in the chain matters to some degree. You don't just download mp3 files and play it thru a HT receiver and call it a day. I hope nobody is making judgements about digital like that. Not saying you are either, just that you need the right tools in the right place with the right material to make any format sound good.

crashb4

This was my experience. Your mileage may vary. I have not used DACs other than those onboard my preamp. Might make a big difference, but I can purchase a whole lot of discs for the price of a quality DAC. Now don't get me wrong; I still have 2+ gig of digital music on my NAS. Mostly FLAC. But even so, some of it is not worth listening to. There is a place for digitally stored music. For me personally it's a distant second to disc or vinyl.

tonyb

DSkip wrote: »

That's because you've never used a quality Dac.

Quality dac, quality cables, quality server = quality digital. Garbage in, garbage out as we like to say.

Just my opinion, but don't even get into digital unless you plan on using a quality external dac.

crashb4

Some of my digital sounds fantastic. Some is plagued by artifacts and glitches. Most all of it was ripped by me with the same equipment. I guess my turn off is the inconsistency that I hear. I have begun segregating the good from the bad.

tonyb

Inconsistency happens across all formats. Ever buy a vinyl you didn't care for.....CD ? You can't control how things are recorded, but you can control how they are played back. Just a matter of trial and error and solid judgement to lift your digital up from sounding like a Hello Kitty boombox.

We are not saying you have to spend thousands either, good sound can be had with any sized wallet across any format. Just a matter of careful picking of gear and cables that will synergize with each other. Takes some thought put into it, like most things do is all.

crashb4

What are your thoughts on a good quality DAC? Current setup: Rotel RSP 1068 Pre, Rotel RMB 1075 amp, Rotel RLC 1080 power conditioner, Rpi2b streamer with Hifiberri Digi+, Oppo DV980, SDA SRS v1, Blue Jeans cables all around.