Orchestral speakers

stanbar

I currently own a set of 11T Polk monitors. They are pretty good but recessed at lower volumes. I am looking to purchase a set of speakers that can handle orchestral music both at low and fairly high volumes. Not ear-splitting. I am also cheap and would like to do this for as little as possible. I have listened to B&W 683 which are really nice but don't want to part with $1700 bucks. All help is appreciated.

[Deleted User]

Hi Stan, it is quite a challenge to design a monitor speaker capable of handling complex orchestral pieces, with good bass, inner detail & the ability to stay composed at high volumes. You want a reasonably high end speaker to start with which is efficient, has wide frequency response, fast drivers, high resolution/clarity & is coherent sounding. And I don't think you're going to quite get all that if you're not prepared to go over about $1500.

Personally I would recommend checking out the Reference 3a MM De Capo BE monitors. They are made in Canada & use a 7" carbon fiber bass/midrange driver direct-coupled to the amp (ie: no crossover), 1" beryllium tweeter & are bi-wireable. Reference 3a have always offered great value, and these monitors are no exception. There is a pair for sale on A'gon right now from a seller with 100% positive f/back in 9/10 condition with the optional adjustable stands (which are essential for monitors imho). The guy is asking $2100 Obo, though I would be negotiating around $1900. A bit more than your budget, but worth the stretch imho. The only FYI is that from my experience BE domes are best matched with a warm ss amp which is slightly forgiving, or 'fast' tubed amp for synergy.

The Soundstage review is worth a read and should give you some more insight. They also made the list of Steve Guttenberg's 'Best speakers on the planet'.

erniejade

Usher or jm labs with a sub would be my recommendation.

[Deleted User]

Stan, just to throw another idea up in the air, if you're prepared to consider 2nd hand. There is a rare 1 owner pair of Infinity Renaissance 80's up for sale in very good nic on USA Audio Mart. The guy is asking $750USD. I owned the Ren 90's which sound awesome for the money, but the Ren 80's were actually more coherent sounding, and many think for that reason they sound better than the R90's.

The Rens use the Watkins woofer which eats a lot of current, so you need atleast a 200 watt amp, or an amp with a strong psu & good current to properly control them. The High Energy Emim and Emit tweeters are excellent.

Though i'm sure you were waiting for the "but", and there are a couple; Infinity no longer supply spare parts for these speakers, and spare drivers when they do pop up on Ebay aren't cheap. Also, the foam transmission line for the midrange in the Rens is prone to brake down after 20 years, and many examples (incl: this pair) will need custom-sized pieces of acoustic foam cut to replace the factory foam at some point in the future. Though you really only need to do that is the foam starts to crumble, or you lose SQ. Also, i'd ask for close up pics of the Emim and Emit drivers to inspect the kapton ribbons for any excessive ripples or bubbles & the traces for any evidence of being burnt out. The High Energy Emit/Emim drivers were well designed & should last a long time, so if the speakers are well cared for, they should be in good shape. Finally, i'd ask for close up pics of the grills from the front to show any tears in the grill cloth & also the pegs to show if there are any broken pegs as the grills are an essential part of the sound of the speakers (like Avalon) and if damaged, or ill-fitting, are unobtanium.

If you can tick all those boxes, you'll get great sound for a bargain which will serve classical and orchestral music very well, and give you a rock solid bottom end paired with a solid amp. Btw, the Rens like most Infinity speakers pair well with either a warm, tube-like ss amp, or a big iron amp like Threshold Class A, Nakamichi Stasis or Classe paired with a tube preamp such as ARC, or bi-amping with a combination of ss and tube amps.

stanbar

Thank you both for the suggestions. I will investigate Usher & JM Labs ASAP.
And thanks Bodhi for recommending the Ref 3a MM De Capo BE monitors. Nothing but highest praise for these. I will continue to seek out as much info as I can on these. I would have liked to listen to them so maybe I'll consider new if there is a return policy.

Thanks again, I really appreciate the help.

P.S. - Wouldn't the B&W 805s be in the same league as the Ref 3a? Much easier to find used.

[Deleted User]

Stan, i'd also check out Proac if you're leaning toward monitors. They make great sounding speakers. The Proac Response D2 is a lovely speaker...a bit bigger than the Reference 3a's & they dig deeper in the bass. This pair is up FS for $1950. To tell you the truth, for my money if I had your budget, i'd grab these speakers. They're in beautiful condition.

erniejade

The 805 I found can get harsh quick with the wrong equipment and with bigger orchestral pieces, I still found myself wanting a sub. How big is your room?

stanbar

22 X 20 X 8 high. Speakers will go along 22' wall. BTW my system is for me listening to music in stereo. I really didn't want to use a sub. Floor-standers seem like the logical choice. And the speakers must be black. Black matches everything.
So I now have more parameters to help narrow down the possibilities.

I see you have LSIM705 Polks. Are they satisfactory for large orchestra reproduction?

erniejade

Agreed the Proac Response D2 is a very nice speaker!

pkquat

If you can find some used, Newform Research R830 (R8-1-30) or R630's are very nice. I got my R830's for under $1,000. The ribbons are amazing, ranging from smooth to in your face, but not fatiguing.

The R830 used an 8" Peerless woofer, so the bass was very good, but there is a little timing muddiness at the crossover region. IMO its only audible on some string and woodwind solos when you actively listen for it. I never notice it, the rest sounds amazing. There are a few versions of the R830's. I have the rear firing port and like them. The bass is still very tight IMO. From what I gather people prefer the rear firing port because you can get a little better low bass reinforcement off the wall and it has a front grill, but again others feel the timing can be off depending on the distance. The front firing port version if I recall had a little more snap but not quite the depth.

I thought the early versions of the R630 used a 6 or 6.5in woofer. As I recall if you only had one they were base shy, and even with 2 a sub was desired for deeper bass. I think version 2 (V2) changed to the 7" Scanpeak driver (currently used in the V3). This was a good trade off, and the desired model.

There are RX45 models as well. These changed the ribbon height from 30" to 45" so they sound just as good when standing. On the R645 you also got two 7" woofers, which helped the bass. I have seen R645's with only 1 woofer and R630's with two as well. I am not sure if these were factory options, factory customs, or personal changes.

Moose68Bash

If you're at all interested in SDAs under your circumstances, you might consider SDA 1Cs that come up for sale on the Forum occasionally.

My heavily modified 1Cs driven by a 300 watts/channel vintage Perreaux PMF3150 amp, Perrreaux SM6P preamp with PS Audio PerfectWave MKII DAC with a Cambridge Audio Azur 840C CD player does a good job of rendering orchestral music at low volume and an even better job at mid and higher volumes.

I've used the 1Cs in a fairly large room (15' x 40' x 8') with success. As long as you have good source components and adequate power, I think the 1Cs are a good speaker for the money, and they can be extremely good when modified.

stanbar

Thank you all. Great suggestions and much to think about.
The SDA 1C intrigues me the most.