Need to Power My RTi-A9's

Fireboy8

First off let me start by saying Hi, this is my first post to the forum. Looking forward to getting into some good discussions. Now, my question. I am building a new home theater and need to buy an AVR. I already bought me speakers and have 2 A9s for my fronts, a CSi-A6 center, 4 OWM5s for surrounds and a PSW125 sub. Can I power this setup with just an AV receiver, or do I need an external amp? A tech at Crutchfield recommended the Denon AVR-X7200WA (150W w/ 2 channels driven) but I'm not sure about spending $3000 on just a receiver. Would it make more sense to get a less powerful receiver and run an external amp? If so, will just a 2 channel amp work for the A9s and let the receiver run the center and surround speakers? Is there a possibility of damaging the speakers by not putting ENOUGH power to them? I know its a lot of questions, I've just never had a large setup like this before so I'm kind of in new territory. Thanks in advance for the help.....Mike.

F1nut

Would it make more sense to get a less powerful receiver and run an external amp?

Yes.

You will need a separate power amp to properly drive the A9's. Recommend almost anything but emo or pro amps.

Is there a possibility of damaging the speakers by not putting ENOUGH power to them?

Yes.

I'd also recommend getting a better sub.

Fireboy8

Ok, so an amp is the way I'm going to go. I keep hearing good things about Parasound, any advice on which would unit would be enough to drive the A9s? I didn't mention it before but this setup is primarily for watching TV/movies. I'm not shaking the house (my wife and 2 year old probably wouldn't approve.) The reason I have such big speakers is because I got them at a great price.

lightman1

+1 This kid knows his stuff. ^^^^^

gp4jesus

+1 F1nut said on a power amp & sub

Fireboy8

Thanks for all the help. Looks like I can pickup a decent sized Parasound for about $1000, which isn't hateful. If never purchased anything from Marantz. I've had Yamaha components in the past (I still run one of their powered subs on my 5.1 system) and I've used Sony and Pioneer. What size AV receiver should I be looking at to run the OWM5s and my CSi-A6? 90W, 150W, something in between? There is such a wide power rating on these speakers I'm not sure what's appropriate. Thanks again.

jwb0007

Fireboy, welcome and good luck w/ your eqpt. decisions. You've received good advice already. Not disputing any of it, however, I have a somewhat different take.

I have the RTi12s, the CSiA6, and RTi6s as surrounds, a CS350 (as the 6 in my 6.1 setup) powered with my Yamaha RX-A2030 140wpc AVR. My sub is an Outlaw LFM-1EX. Further, I listen to this in a great room w/ dining area adjoining the equipment end, and a kitchen adjoining the dining area. The estimated cubic footage is 7000 plus because of a 15' vaulted ceiling. All in all, not necessarily an easy area to deal with.

I mention all this because I received recommendations to acquire an amp, too. That my AVR would not be sufficient with those "power-hungry" speakers and room dimensions. Instead, I set the speakers up, went through the equalization process, and gave myself some time with different types of sources.

Admitting that I do not know nearly as much as some of the others here, and have not had the varieties of equipmental experiences as they have, I can say that the music and HT sounds I hear are a sheer delight. I cannot imagine being more satisfied (is possible that others have the equipment to change my mind). However, at the PRICE point . . . .

It is true that I do not listen at ear-bleeding volumes (that would be torturous to me), but that seems to be your situation for the foreseeable future, too (one 2-year old already. Perhaps more in the future?). So maybe the power and the expense are either unnecessary or premature for a good while.

Of course, a good part of the satisfaction comes from an excellent and powerful sub, and the suggestions to take another look there probably are good ones.

jwb0007

^ DSkip, have read a number of your comments. Obviously, you know what you are talking about, so a few questions on this subject please:
1. Outside of knowing someone with an amp who might be willing to bring it over to actually hear what a good amp might (or might not) do--and I don't think I know anyone like that--how do people find out if an amp really would helps what they hear?
2. Brand? You mentioned the A23 for instance. The brand must be obvious to most--but not to those not in the amp "loop".
3. Is that a 2 channel? I suppose a 2 channel is less expensive than a 3 or 4 or 5, etc., right?
4. Given my RTi12 speakers (and not needing my volume to match the tarmac at the St. Louis airport), are those really the only speakers likely to see much benefit from an amplifier?
5. Is there a "fair" price range for an amp suitable for my situation?
6. How (un)comfortable should I be with a used amp, as price is/will be a consideration?

Thanks, and I hope I have not over-burdened you. Hopefully, your thoughts here will help to enlighten any others who are as inexperienced in this area as I am (not trying to hijack the thread).

jwb0007

^ Re above questions, if the answer is that a 2-channel amp would give me most of the benefit, might a sufficiently powerful additional receiver perform the same function? At lower cost? Or maybe not, as receivers seem to expire sooner than amps?

Thanks again.

motorhead43026

^^you need current which receivers lack and amps have^^

jwb0007

^Thanks for the detailed responses. I understand somewhat better now. I know this is a non sequitur, but I struggle to think that a new A23 will cost more than my A4L Yamaha AVR!

Will think about this, and am open to inputs/options of eqpt.

lightman1

^^^Preach it, brother!

mikeyb128

When I had my RTIA set up, A9's, A6, and 2 pairs of A3's I was using a harman kardon AVR 7550HD (which was a beast!). I thought too it sounded good, no amp needed. Then I picked up a sunfire tga 7401 on recommendation of this forum, I live in Canada and had zero way of demoing any amp at the time. So I took a leap of faith and dished out 3500 bucks for a sunfire amp. Hooked everything up, and immediately I noticed higher detail at lower listening levels, and a much fuller sound. I hadn't even pushed the system yet and I was sold. This was 6 years ago, and I still have my sunfire today, the thing ran a 7 channel lsi system without breaking a sweat. Not to say you need an amp of this caliber, but an amp with some high current will be a revelation, especially if You listen at higher levels.

jwb0007

DSkip, I didn't take it any other way than that you were explaining your thoughts to me. And mentioning some facts. Obviously, you are cutting edge, and by virtue of my (likely) being older and tastes which may be more settled and modest, my pace of wanting or needing to "change with the times" is less pressing. I tend to wait for big changes (like HDMI and USB ports) to come and settle in a bit to establish themselves, and then that becomes my starting point for any "add-ons" of the time. And then I ride with them some years until the eqpt breaks, or the cumulative benefits of subsequent changes make an upgrade attractive. And affordable.

But you do have me thinking hard about an amplifier . . . .

Fireboy8

I'm really glad I asked some questions here, looks like I struck up a great conversation. Having never used an amp for home theater (only car audio) I was definitely in need of some advice. Looks like I'll be shopping for a good 2 channel amp to run my A9s and a good 7.1 receiver to power everything else. Thanks for all the advice, and for other users posing questions too. It's a great way to learn more.

cfrizz

jwb0007 wrote: »

DSkip, I didn't take it any other way than that you were explaining your thoughts to me. And mentioning some facts. Obviously, you are cutting edge, and by virtue of my (likely) being older and tastes which may be more settled and modest, my pace of wanting or needing to "change with the times" is less pressing. I tend to wait for big changes (like HDMI and USB ports) to come and settle in a bit to establish themselves, and then that becomes my starting point for any "add-ons" of the time. And then I ride with them some years until the eqpt breaks, or the cumulative benefits of subsequent changes make an upgrade attractive. And affordable.

But you do have me thinking hard about an amplifier . . . .

This is why a good many of us use amps, they can be used on any system you have now and in the future. The receivers will come and go but the amp will stay put till done.

Fireboy8 wrote: »

I'm really glad I asked some questions here, looks like I struck up a great conversation. Having never used an amp for home theater (only car audio) I was definitely in need of some advice. Looks like I'll be shopping for a good 2 channel amp to run my A9s and a good 7.1 receiver to power everything else. Thanks for all the advice, and for other users posing questions too. It's a great way to learn more.

Just make sure that the receiver you get has the necessary preouts to hook up an amp.

gp4jesus

DSkip wrote: »

Parasounds work well with Polks.

Yup

DSkip wrote: »

A[n external] amp... ...will relieve some stress from your receiver allowing improve the performance of the other speakers as they get more power.

I enjoy "effortless" SQ, due to separates.

DSkip wrote: »

Every speaker benefits from an improved power source/amp. Some speakers[do] play nice with receivers. If you're powering A5s/Rti8s, while they would benefit, they don't stress the receiver nearly as much as the A9/Rti12.

just 2 drivers versus 5 - far less back EMF

DSkip wrote: »

For 200 watts and a good build quality, you can go used for as cheap as $300 (Adcom GFA-555)...

Full range, 2 channel - a Belles Series I pumps out a measly but very robust 100 WPC. It will lift my RTi A7s off the ground w/out breaking a sweat!

DSkip wrote: »

There is a whole world of used amplifiers that could make them sing. I haven't had an issue with a used power amplifier.

Check my sig - you'll see some Circa 80s gear "gitin' 'er done."

Shaloam. Tony

dalylaleahthor

I agree with all of DSkip advice. I also owned a setup like your but with fxia6 and rtia3 thrown into the mix.

jwb0007

DSkip, the "you have me thinking" comment I made to you back on the 13th? I did act on it with a friend who also has been advising me similarly. Purchased a Yamaha M-65 for my 2 RTi12 fronts. Will be a couple of weeks before I pick it up, but am very much looking forward to its coming home.

Not sure what to expect, though, in terms of incremental improvement, as I really love the rich sound and balance I already have. But, it's time to find out!

kharp1

My HT system has been dismantled in favor of 2 channel. The M&K "given" to a friend to use, PSB image 7PT's, 9C's and 10S's sitting in a corner collecting dust. The Denon 3802 gets occasional use powering a spare bedroom 2 channel system. So done with those days.