Wire for internal speaker re-wiring.
pkquat
Posts: 748
Any recommendations for reasonably priced internal wiring? Is it worth it? The cheap option is some Radio Shack 14 or 16Ga speaker wire that was free. I am not sure if that is worth the hassle. The easy upgrade is some quality 12 or 14Ga fine strand copper from a car audio installer, but it is nothing special. I have yet to choose a final speaker cable, so I can't match it yet.
Best Answers
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I replaced the internal wiring on my 1980 RTA-12's with stranded 14 gauge Neotech OCC wire from Sonic Craft (it was on sale). The original Polk wire was nothing to brag about. Sonic Craft sells it with PVC or Teflon insulation, the PVC being less expensive, but supposedly not as nice sounding. This was after putting 400 hours on Westmassguy (DHS Speaker Service) rebuilt crossovers. The 14 gauge was a bit of a pain to work with (mostly my inexperience with a soldering iron I am sure). The sonic result was like opening the window wider to the improvement provided by the new crossover components. Most noticeably, the bottom end improved with more detail, resolution, and slam.
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https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/speaker-wire/supra-rondo-4x2.5mm-speaker-wire-per-foot-13-awg/
This is what I used, works great...
Answers
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Any recommendations for reasonably priced internal wiring? Is it worth it? The cheap option is some Radio Shack 14 or 16Ga speaker wire that was free. I am not sure if that is worth the hassle. The easy upgrade is some quality 12 or 14Ga fine strand copper from a car audio installer, but it is nothing special. I have yet to choose a final speaker cable, so I can't match it yet.
yea don't do this sooner or later you will be replacing again because it is so green an oxidized.
there is many good choices for "hook up" wire than to go with speaker wire. -
I replaced the internal wiring on my 1980 RTA-12's with stranded 14 gauge Neotech OCC wire from Sonic Craft (it was on sale). The original Polk wire was nothing to brag about. Sonic Craft sells it with PVC or Teflon insulation, the PVC being less expensive, but supposedly not as nice sounding. This was after putting 400 hours on Westmassguy (DHS Speaker Service) rebuilt crossovers. The 14 gauge was a bit of a pain to work with (mostly my inexperience with a soldering iron I am sure). The sonic result was like opening the window wider to the improvement provided by the new crossover components. Most noticeably, the bottom end improved with more detail, resolution, and slam.
At first I looked at Neotech speaker wire at $58/ft
but then I found it. Any difference to using chassis wire vs speaker wire?
yea don't do this sooner or later you will be replacing again because it is so green an oxidized.
there is many good choices for "hook up" wire than to go with speaker wire.
You mean the car audio cable or even generic decent speaker cable? I have some 25year old esoteric cable and monster cable, and some 20 year old no name car cable with the plastic center to make it look bigger (I feel the shame, but it was very cheap on clearance). None have gone green or show signs of oxidation. The RS cable is 16 years old and also looks good, although it is mostly on the spool. Is it the solder? I plan on using "Wonder Signature" lead free. The Cardas Tri Eutectic does not appear to be available anymore.
Are cables that poor these days even for a couple of bucks per foot to $10 per foot.
If I wanted to get carried away I could adhesive shrink tube the ends.
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DSkip suggested Wireworld Helicon 16 for internals. I think that what I will use on my 2.3TL's.Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
1KVA Dreadnought
Marantz SA 8005
Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
Sony PS4
Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video
"All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER" -
Cardas Quad Eutectic is available all over the place. I just bought a pound from Parts Connexion.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Well I can tell you this much I bought a spool of acoustic research copper wire it is 12ga and 12yrs old every bit on the spool is bright and clean....every bit of it I used has been switched out as all of it turned green and sticky inside the jacket. I sealed all ends with adhesive lined shrink wrap around the connections but it turned green away from all the connections. I swear it has to do with the voltage going through it and reacting with the jacket material.
That wire toolfan pointed out has a stroller record. The stuff I replaced it with you can no longer afford. I used Furtech it went from 10$ a meter to 46$ a meter no idea why.
My .02 -
sounds like crazy Saturday nights at Jesse's place in the 70s - loud music, wild women and everyone hittin' the Cardas QuadCardas Quad Eutectic is available all over the place. I just bought a pound from Parts Connexion.
Larry, what is the benefit of tin plated copper? To help with oxidation?https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/speaker-wire/supra-rondo-4x2.5mm-speaker-wire-per-foot-13-awg/
This is what I used, works great...I disabled signatures. -
Yes helps combat oxidation
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Fixed it........sounds like crazy Saturday nights at Jesse's place in the 70s - loud music, wild women and everyone hittin' the Rorer Quaaludes.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Cardas Quad Eutectic is available all over the place. I just bought a pound from Parts Connexion.
I was referring to their TRI Eutectic which was lead free, but it appears it is no longer available. Thinking about it further, I am guessing polk used a lead based solder on their crossovers, so if I am re-using any boards lead-free doesn't matter. A friend has some really nice equipment but it is all lead free. If the original solder is leaded, I may have to change my game plan for that.https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/speaker-wire/supra-rondo-4x2.5mm-speaker-wire-per-foot-13-awg/
This is what I used, works great...
I am liking the tinned copper and the price.Well I can tell you this much I bought a spool of acoustic research copper wire it is 12ga and 12yrs old every bit on the spool is bright and clean....every bit of it I used has been switched out as all of it turned green and sticky inside the jacket. I sealed all ends with adhesive lined shrink wrap around the connections but it turned green away from all the connections. I swear it has to do with the voltage going through it and reacting with the jacket material.
That wire toolfan pointed out has a stroller record. The stuff I replaced it with you can no longer afford. I used Furtech it went from 10$ a meter to 46$ a meter no idea why.
My .02
Good to know and makes some sense. I would think speaker wire in use would do the same more frequently, or maybe there have been some bad batches, or maybe length comes into play for some reason. I have heard of some jacket materials degrading over time too, but no clear reasons why or what to look for in new stuff.
I am still searching for more definitive cause of oxidation etc. In theory then all copper wire would do it, but you only see it on clear jacket cable. The tinned cable is leading at the moment. -
Fixed it........
sounds like crazy Saturday nights at Jesse's place in the 70s - loud music, wild women and everyone hittin' the Rorer Quaaludes.
What is it 714 aaaagain.....Man Bill you know how to roll:)
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Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Thanks. I assumed since it was no longer on the Cardas site and a few links were dead, it was longer available. I should have looked further.
By "I wouldn't" do you mean wouldn't use a lead-free solder, or the Cardas version of it? My other lead free recommendation was the Wonder Signature. If the existing solder is leaded, it may be moot. Then I'll use the Cardas QE. -
You wouldn't use lead free?? Or you would use lead free?? -
I would not use lead free.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I would not use lead free.
What's the preference to leaded solder?
I'll follow up on what I found out and been told regarding cable later. In short, for soldered wire, tinned is a big plus against oxidation, as is thicker strands, and most std harder PVC jackets. Teflon jackets are better if you are melting the PVC jacket. -
What's the preference to leaded solder?
Lead-free solder has a higher melting point. From one of my references.
" For the most widely used tin/lead alloys such as Sn60 Pb40 or more commonly Sn63 Pb37 (eutectic), the melting point is 361°F (183°C). The most commonly used lead-free alloy, Sn96.5 Ag3.0 Cu0.5, commonly referred to as SAC 305, has a melting point of 422°F (217°C) to 428°F (220°C). The resultant increase in melting point will have the effect of reducing the overall process window and can change the traditionally accepted appearance of the finished product."
You therefore have less of a temperature window to work with your components before heat damage could occur. And most lead-free solders have a narrow working range. Typically 10-15°F
Also, lead-free solder has the unfortunate habit of forming "tin whiskers" spontaneously & randomly. -
Follow up on internal speaker wire. From what I've been told and browsed on the internet, some modifiers in soft PVC can oxidize copper. They are often found in clear PVC. Heat, moisture, or UV light will cause the modifiers to come out and oxidize the copper. It seams that once the process starts it will continue.
Fine strand wire is better for mechanical connections, but when soldering heat can be focused on only some of the strands. Dipping is beter for tinning the ends of fine strand wire. Tinned wire is great to keep internal solder from oxidizing, but can oxidize more in mechanical connections. Soldering is best. Thicker strand is better for soldering.
My soldering friend works with lead free often, so does not find it difficult. Leaded solder is easier to work with, but in his opinion ,lead free is not difficult and adds no audio value. There are techniques to miniminize the heat added to the parts. -
You are making this a lot harder for yourself than it actually is.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
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You are making this a lot harder for yourself than it actually is.
Are you talking about the soldering or more? -
DSkip suggested Wireworld Helicon 16 for internals. I think that what I will use on my 2.3TL's.
I haven't been able to find that cable on their site yet
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Thank you. I should have been more clear. I had found the flyer via google. I haven't been able to find where to order it on there site. From the newsletter, I assume I would have to call to order, and also find out when they would be available or ship.
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++1(!), dude!You are making this a lot harder for yourself than it actually is.
I learned about this (link below) solder a couple years ago from another thread on this forum and wouldn't use anything else!
http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/cardas-solder-qe-24ft-p-521
Internal Wire upgrade? As probably the loudest advocate for the same, don't overthink it & ignore the naysayers. I've been rewiring speakers since 1980 w/ZERO regrets.
Speaking for Polk's RTi/RTi A series speakers 14 ga or larger that's very fine stranded would be an improvement over the trash they come with. All of my speakers* have 12 ga between the BPs & XOs plus the same between the XO & mids.
* except the LR's bass drivers: 8 ga all the way to their amps!
I expect heat from others watching this thread but hear goes: Go big or go home! Otherwise you're leaving performance on the table!
Tony
Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
