B&W 803 D3 - Mini Review
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DarqueKnight
Posts: 6,764
Introduction
B&W's 800 Series Diamond speakers come in a gloss black or rosenut finish. "Diamond" denotes the diamond dome tweeters used in the series.
Specs:
3-way vented box
45.66" H x 13.15" W x 19.61" D
144 pounds per cabinet
Overall FR: 16 Hz to 35 kHz
3 dB limit FR: 19 Hz to 28 kHz
$17,000 per pair
I called the local B&W dealer and asked if they had a pair of 802 D3s set up, and I was told "not yet, but we have the 803 D3 set up and you can get a good idea of what the 802 sounds like".
Listening Evaluation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9kTVZiJ3Uc
I made an appointment in order to guarantee some alone time with the 803s. I brought a USB stick with some of my favorite evaluation tracks in FLAC and DSD formats, but when I arrived at the store, the system connected to the 803s only had an SACD/CD player. How quaint! I went home and came back with an assortment of 12 CDs and SACDs, but I only listened to one track from each of five discs:
"So What", Miles Davis, Kind of Blue SACD
"Take Five", Dave Brubeck Quartet, Time Out SACD
"You Don't Have To Go Home", Boney James, Pure CD
"Antissa", E. S. Posthumus, Unearthed CD
"Isunova Pi, E. S. Posthumus, Cartographer Remixes CD
The room was approximately 20' x 30' with the 803s on the short wall. The 803s were 10' apart, 5' from side walls, and 3' from the rear wall. I sat 12 feet back. The 803s were toed in so that their center lines converged just behind my head.
Clarity and detail in the center was exceptional, but fell off at the rear and sides of the soundstage. The sound stage in the center extended to the rear wall 3' away and extended in the center 3' ahead of the speaker plane. Sounds at the sides of the sound stage were confined to the area just in front of the speakers. Sound stage height was confined to the top of the speakers.
I was very disappointed in the bass performance. With the preamp set at 46%, which generated an average SPL of 85 dB-C, I felt little to no tactile sensation from the heavy bass beats a the beginning of "Isunova Pi". The speed and articulation of the drum solo on "Take Five" was slightly diminished, and the ambient envelope surrounding the drum kit was truncated. Acoustic bass lines were not as clean and defined.
There is a "scrubbing" percussion sound in the right channel at 1:44 on "You Don't Have To Go Home". This was rendered as a blurred "blip" through the 803s.
I brought some vocal selections to the audition, but I didn't listen to any because I was ready to go after the first five instrumental selections. My primary listening genre is instrumental jazz and I don't think B&W had jazz in mind when they voiced the 803 D3. I can see where a classical music enthusiast might be thrilled with them.
Overall, the sound of the 803s was like taking a step back to my modified SDA 1Cs, except that the 1Cs had significantly better imaging and bass.
Associated Equipment
McIntosh C52 Preamplifier ($7,000)
McIntosh MC601 Monoblock Power Amplifiers ($16,500 per pair)
McIntosh MCD 550 CD/SACD Player ($6,500)
Furman IT Reference 20i Power Conditioner ($3,700)
AudioQuest Mackenzie XLR Interconnects ($189 per meter)
AudioQuest Oak Speaker Cables ($3,040 per 8 foot pair)
B&W's 800 Series Diamond speakers come in a gloss black or rosenut finish. "Diamond" denotes the diamond dome tweeters used in the series.
Specs:
3-way vented box
45.66" H x 13.15" W x 19.61" D
144 pounds per cabinet
Overall FR: 16 Hz to 35 kHz
3 dB limit FR: 19 Hz to 28 kHz
$17,000 per pair
I called the local B&W dealer and asked if they had a pair of 802 D3s set up, and I was told "not yet, but we have the 803 D3 set up and you can get a good idea of what the 802 sounds like".
Listening Evaluation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9kTVZiJ3UcI made an appointment in order to guarantee some alone time with the 803s. I brought a USB stick with some of my favorite evaluation tracks in FLAC and DSD formats, but when I arrived at the store, the system connected to the 803s only had an SACD/CD player. How quaint! I went home and came back with an assortment of 12 CDs and SACDs, but I only listened to one track from each of five discs:
"So What", Miles Davis, Kind of Blue SACD
"Take Five", Dave Brubeck Quartet, Time Out SACD
"You Don't Have To Go Home", Boney James, Pure CD
"Antissa", E. S. Posthumus, Unearthed CD
"Isunova Pi, E. S. Posthumus, Cartographer Remixes CD
The room was approximately 20' x 30' with the 803s on the short wall. The 803s were 10' apart, 5' from side walls, and 3' from the rear wall. I sat 12 feet back. The 803s were toed in so that their center lines converged just behind my head.
Clarity and detail in the center was exceptional, but fell off at the rear and sides of the soundstage. The sound stage in the center extended to the rear wall 3' away and extended in the center 3' ahead of the speaker plane. Sounds at the sides of the sound stage were confined to the area just in front of the speakers. Sound stage height was confined to the top of the speakers.
I was very disappointed in the bass performance. With the preamp set at 46%, which generated an average SPL of 85 dB-C, I felt little to no tactile sensation from the heavy bass beats a the beginning of "Isunova Pi". The speed and articulation of the drum solo on "Take Five" was slightly diminished, and the ambient envelope surrounding the drum kit was truncated. Acoustic bass lines were not as clean and defined.
There is a "scrubbing" percussion sound in the right channel at 1:44 on "You Don't Have To Go Home". This was rendered as a blurred "blip" through the 803s.
I brought some vocal selections to the audition, but I didn't listen to any because I was ready to go after the first five instrumental selections. My primary listening genre is instrumental jazz and I don't think B&W had jazz in mind when they voiced the 803 D3. I can see where a classical music enthusiast might be thrilled with them.
Overall, the sound of the 803s was like taking a step back to my modified SDA 1Cs, except that the 1Cs had significantly better imaging and bass.
Associated Equipment
McIntosh C52 Preamplifier ($7,000)
McIntosh MC601 Monoblock Power Amplifiers ($16,500 per pair)
McIntosh MCD 550 CD/SACD Player ($6,500)
Furman IT Reference 20i Power Conditioner ($3,700)
AudioQuest Mackenzie XLR Interconnects ($189 per meter)
AudioQuest Oak Speaker Cables ($3,040 per 8 foot pair)
Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
Comments
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My demo of the 802 D3's was equally disappointing.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Sounds like the system rather than the speakers. Magnolia display is my guess.Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
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Not Magnolia here.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
The problem I have with the D3 is that they are notoriously difficult to get right. The problem lies partially in their dispersion, the lack of the baffle causes significant upper frequency room interaction and is very difficult to control.
Couple that with the D3's relative flatter bass response than the D2, and you have a recipe for an anemic presentation.
I would not conclude the D3 performance on showroom settings.Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
DK,
Thanks for the quick review. I gather that another demo would not be in order? Ha. At least that setup had the speakers a couple feet away from the back wall, I have witnessed a setup where the speakers were practically holding the wall up. Ugh...
Halen -
The problem I have with the D3 is that they are notoriously difficult to get right.
I would not conclude the D3 performance on showroom settings.
I don't make any performance conclusions until I have a piece of gear in my home in my system. However, I expect that authorized dealers of expensive, high performance audio products would have the knowledge and means to properly set up the merchandise they sell. At the very least, the showroom demo should provide enough insight to induce further interest.
From what I described about the demo, was there anything that should have been corrected about the setup? Also, are there some known incompatibilities between the 803s and the cabling and electronics listed?I gather that another demo would not be in order?
If someone can offer some corrective actions, I will go back for another 803D3 demo. I was already planning to go back for a demo of the 802 D3s when they get them in.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
DarqueKnight wrote: »The problem I have with the D3 is that they are notoriously difficult to get right.
I would not conclude the D3 performance on showroom settings.
I don't make any performance conclusions until I have a piece of gear in my home in my system. However, I expect that authorized dealers of expensive, high performance audio products would have the knowledge and means to properly set up the merchandise they sell. At the very least, the showroom demo should provide enough insight to induce further interest.
From what I described about the demo, was there anything that should have been corrected about the setup? Also, are there some known incompatibilities between the 803s and the cabling and electronics listed?I gather that another demo would not be in order?
If someone can offer some corrective actions, I will go back for another 803D3 demo. I was already planning to go back for a demo of the 802 D3s when they get them in.
I think the wiring is fine, the Mac amp is good. The preamp probably not so much. But I think the room is the bigger issue and positioning. Give the 802d3 a chance when they come in. Perhaps closer to the wall and see.Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
OK. Thanks for the advice.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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Seems kind of weird to be using a 200$ pair of interconnects with 3000$ speaker cables? Not saying it was the issue here, Just taking note.2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
I wondered about that. I assume they tried better cables and didn't hear an improvement.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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I can only comment on the 803D2 model. I found that they were very very good once set up properly but setting them up was painful, aggravating, frustrating, a pain in the rear so to speak. Very finicky as to position, just a slight variation can make a huge difference. Once set up properly they will shine though.
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Set up is a pain the rear X 10. I agree.Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
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DarqueKnight wrote: »The problem I have with the D3 is that they are notoriously difficult to get right.
I would not conclude the D3 performance on showroom settings.
I don't make any performance conclusions until I have a piece of gear in my home in my system. However, I expect that authorized dealers of expensive, high performance audio products would have the knowledge and means to properly set up the merchandise they sell. At the very least, the showroom demo should provide enough insight to induce further interest.
From what I described about the demo, was there anything that should have been corrected about the setup? Also, are there some known incompatibilities between the 803s and the cabling and electronics listed?I gather that another demo would not be in order?
If someone can offer some corrective actions, I will go back for another 803D3 demo. I was already planning to go back for a demo of the 802 D3s when they get them in.
Good to know. Once upon a time, I was also a hard core Bowers fan. I owned the 803D's and my family members the 800 and 802D. Once I discovered life outside that bubble, music finally came alive. I guess some people buy for looks, others for prestige.. I came to terms and only buy for sound.
Hopefully they could set it up more proper for you. Whatever their excuse may be. Haha
Halen -
DarqueKnight wrote: »The problem I have with the D3 is that they are notoriously difficult to get right.
I would not conclude the D3 performance on showroom settings.
I don't make any performance conclusions until I have a piece of gear in my home in my system. However, I expect that authorized dealers of expensive, high performance audio products would have the knowledge and means to properly set up the merchandise they sell. At the very least, the showroom demo should provide enough insight to induce further interest.
From what I described about the demo, was there anything that should have been corrected about the setup? Also, are there some known incompatibilities between the 803s and the cabling and electronics listed?I gather that another demo would not be in order?
If someone can offer some corrective actions, I will go back for another 803D3 demo. I was already planning to go back for a demo of the 802 D3s when they get them in.
Good to know. Once upon a time, I was also a hard core Bowers fan. I owned the 803D's and my family members the 800 and 802D. Once I discovered life outside that bubble, music finally came alive. I guess some people buy for looks, others for prestige.. I came to terms and only buy for sound.
Hopefully they could set it up more proper for you. Whatever their excuse may be. Haha
Halen
Or some buy because they like it.Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
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