HCA 3500 vs Two HCA 2200ii in mono?

lando885

I've been snooping around the these forums and others, doing some research on my next upgrade. I've been using a cambridge audio 740a and a pair of B&W 683's for the last several years but now have the itch for something new.

I found a local HCA 2200 and was able to demo it at my house... wasn't sold on the unit, but after some research learned about the mark 2 which John Curl helped design. Purchased this big beautiful amp from a nice fellow in Milwaukee and have been in love with the sound, much impoved over the 740a (which I am still using as my preamp).

My dad let me use (will have for the next several months) his Dahlquist DQ10's, complete with crossover and sub, and this system has never sounded better! Large, dynamic, warm, detailed, nice bloom and soundstage. But switching from my B&W's to the DQ10's dropped my volume more than I would like and I find myself really pushing the system to get the volume I want at times.

I know the 3500 is a better amp, but at 1200-1400 it's kinda pricey for my budget all at once. I was thinking of a second 2200ii someday and running them as mono blocks, should get me all the power I need.

BTW, I plan to someday send which ever amp/amp's I end up picking in to Big Sky Audio for the full treatment.

I guess my question is, what would you do? 3500 or purchasing a second 2200ii?

Oh, and whenever my Dad grabs his speakers back, I'll be looking at maggie 1.7 or .7's probably adding in sealed woofer to the mix as well.

tonyb

Lets see....the 3500 is basically 2 mono blocks in one chassis. I wouldn't buy a 2 channel amp to use as a mono, you'd have to bridge it and amps usually don't sound as good bridged plus they also usually don't like impedance swings much below 8 ohms....which the Maggies are well below.

To run the 3500, you'd need a dedicated 20 amp line to get the most out of it. I don't see the need for mono's, one amp should drive any of those speakers pretty darn well. The B&W's you have are an easy load, the DQ's a harder load, which may explain some drop in volume, but amps sound their best when presented with a load. They are probably more efficient too than the DQ's, less power to reach certain SPL's, could just be speaker design attributing to a loss of volume. Moving to the Maggies, your looking at the smaller versions, I don't see a problem with one good amp.

lando885

Hmmm, I was hoping running 2 of the 2200's in mono would work out. Easier route since I can space out the $ a bit more. I appreciate the advice Tony, thanks.

Do you have any experience between the 2200 and 3500?

hochpt21

To echo what Tony said. In my limited research, when a 2-channel amp is bridged, it doesn't do well with lower impedance.

F1nut

Tony is correct and the reason bridged amps don't sound as good is because they have a higher noise floor. He's also correct that you need a dedicated 20 amp line for the 3500. It will not sound right otherwise.

You'll never get rock concert volume from the DQ10's. They just don't have it in them.

lando885

How would I tell if I have a 20 amp line in my house, do they look different than the 15 amp lines? Are the wires in the wall different or is it the plug?

The 3500 has 2 power cords, would using separate wall sockets help?

EndersShadow

lando885 wrote: »

How would I tell if I have a 20 amp line in my house, do they look different than the 15 amp lines? Are the wires in the wall different or is it the plug?

The 3500 has 2 power cords, would using separate wall sockets help?

At minimum there will be a 20 amp breaker in the junction box. I'm going to say unless you had it done, the likelyhood of having a pre-existing 20 amp line is about nill.

Most builders just do 15 amp lines for the entire house unless code dictates otherwise (washer, dryer, oven, etc).

lightman1

First thing you can try is find the circuit breaker that turns off the outlet you will have the amp(s) plugged into. When you find that breaker, it will have either 15 or 20 stamped on the handle. That will let you know the ampacity of that circuit.

lando885 wrote: »

How would I tell if I have a 20 amp line in my house, do they look different than the 15 amp lines? Are the wires in the wall different or is it the plug?

The 3500 has 2 power cords, would using separate wall sockets help?

pitdogg2

Let me also add to lightmans post. If it has a 15amp it may not be as simple as buying a new breaker. Many houses are wired with 14ga wire you will need at least 12ga and if I was doing it I would use 10ga in this instance. White jacket 14ga yellow jacket 12 and orange will be 10 gauge. So look at the jacket to get a quick idea BUT if it was wired in the 70's it could all be white jacket. You will have to look at and read the jacket in that case.

tonyb

Absolutely ^^^, going from a 15 to 20 amp breaker requires new wire to be pulled from the breaker to the outlet. Most houses have 20 amp lines but they are used for heavy loads in appliance outlets. Look in your breaker box, you'll see 20 amp breakers, some might even be bridged for heat/AC, if you have an electric stove, washer and dryer, etc. For the 3500, you need to have it's own 20 amp line, not a shared one.

I still don't see the need for that much power. Nothing he has, or wants to have so far as I can tell requires gobbs of power. The Maggies need power, current, to sound good but not nuclear power.

To each his own though, but if you want mono's, then buy mono's, don't buy a 2 channel amp to turn into one. If you want the 3500, have an electrician come out and convert that 15 amp line to 20.

lightman1

Thank you gentlemen. That was my next step if he had a 15A circuit.
But you answered it and now I don't have to. Less work for me!

Dennis Gardner

..

lando885

Seriously you guys are awesome and I appreciate all your advice. I guess the plan is to upgrade to the 3500 in the future, then someday ($ allowing) used jc1 mono's. Will look at running separate 20 amp power lines to the section of the basement I'll be using as my listening room, but probably not for a while, at least until I upgrade to the 3500.

F1nut

The JC1's are basically the 3500 in two separate boxes with upgraded parts.

lando885

So a big sky upgraded 3500 should be comparable to jc1 mono's?

lando885

For that kind of money, $1200-1400 amp and $1000 in upgrades, is there any other amps I should be looking at?

tonyb

lando885 wrote: »

For that kind of money, $1200-1400 amp and $1000 in upgrades, is there any other amps I should be looking at?

In my opinion, McCormack amps.

Though also in my opinion, if you have a limited budget, don't go all in on just the amp. Give some consideration to your pre amp and cabling. You'll only get so far sound quality wise if you plan on using a receiver and cheapo cables.....no matter what amp you buy.

lando885

I'm looking at anticables as my next immediate upgrade, speaker cables and power cables. Probably some upgrades to my turntable after that, then preamp, then power amp upgrade. My time line is 12-14 month, I'll be saving as I go and selling off old gear to make up the difference. Speakers last, and only when my dad grabs back his DQ's.

That's the plan anyway.

Have you tried any of the primaluna gear? I'm curious about there stuff, would like a tube preamp eventually.

F1nut

Really bad sounding cables, keep looking.

tonyb

They certainly are no slouch in the tube department, worth a look and listen in my book. I think a tube pre amp and SS amplification is the cats meow so your on the right track.

I might suggest to re-consider the anti-cables though, so many better brands out there. Good luck on your journey.

lando885

You have any brands I should look into? Around the same price point?

lando885

Cables I mean?

tonyb

lando885 wrote: »

You have any brands I should look into? Around the same price point?

Depends....I think first you have to look at what your thinking of buying. The 3500 amp is real nice, the Maggies are nice too. You have to get the word "cheap" out of your head and instill "best sound per dollar" that will compliment the gear your buying.

You also have to be open to buying used, that's the best bang for your buck in cables plus they will already be broken in.

Used....Acoustic Zen Satori, Harmonic tech, both offer a good definition and clear highs without the fatigue. Which you have 2 warm pieces in the Parasound and Maggies so a overly warm cable or overly sterile one wouldn't work too well. The Maggies do certain things well and they have a nice soundstage, you want to compliment their strong suits and help out the weak points, like their lower bass.

For super budget minded, Greg Strailey Reality cables, which for about 150 bucks you can grab an 8ft. pair.

I know anti cables have many levels now, I've only experienced their original version when they first came out and can honestly say if the rest sound like that one, they will not compliment your amp or speakers very well.

lando885

I'll look into those brands, thanks for the recommendations.