Proper SDA functionality, tests?

tugboat

I think part of the out of place sounds comes from the artificial separation applied during mixing. That and out of phase vocals drive me crazy.

TennMan

F1nut wrote: »

TennMann, I have more than 5 feet to my side walls and I don't have a crazy wide sound stage, nor do I have sounds coming from behind me. My room is well damped, zero echo when clapping hands. In fact, I've never had those wild effects in any house I've lived in with any of my SDA's. I can't say I've ever heard that from SDA's in others homes either. When I read people describe those effects I think to myself that their room must be really bad because that is not how SDA is supposed to sound.

It sounds like your experiences with SDAs is similar to mine. It's good to know I'm not alone.

@Gunther16, My room is far from ideal. The area behind the fireplace is an open foyer that probably is bad for sound, plus the room is too live. The room by design is a compromise for 2 channel listening, watching TV, and serving as a living room. It's part of downsizing for retirement.

Gunther16

Did not mean to be critical, I was just noticing things that may be the culprit to your issue and giving some ideas. No one in a real world living environment has the ideal room/environment (well maybe a few do) so compromises have to be made.

honestaquarian

Gentkeman please do not forget what the OP was asking about HIS situation
We have kind of highjacked this thread and taken it off course.
I offer my humble apologies to the OP
Please read the first post everyone.

xllr8

Nice to see a lively discussion, re: these speakers. Apparently they can be fickle in regards to their placement & performance.

Repositioning seemed to help balance out the soundstage & bring a slightly better center focus. I do however have a moderately reflective room.

Again, as for the "smear': I think I realize what I was hearing. It seems that center positioned audio tends to be quieter than panned audio. I am however always referencing studio monitor sound (in my head), & they tend to have laser like positioning. That being said, these speakers do seem to bring me a step closer to that sweet sweet magic.

I'd like to test the circuits, as per the SDA handbook, but I'm not sure I saw specs for an SDA2b... Thoughts/experience?

Schurkey

When it matters to me--like when I set-up a system in a different location, or set-up a new system--I rely on one or more Stereophile Test CDs. This gives me tracks with left-only, right-only, both channels in-phase, channels out-of-phase, frequency bands, and many more. I can identify placement, driver, and cable-connection problems quickly and efficiently.

Strongly recommended. Test CDs 1, 2, and 3 seem to be available only as a package for $30.

http://store-badz031c.mybigcommerce.com/

lawdogg

Did Polk ever publish the reference factory test to verify SDA functionality?

F1nut

Yes they did. If Trey still has his site up it's posted there. VR3mods.com

xllr8

Schurkey
exactly what I had in mind, some reference audio. I think I've got one lurking somewhere; must dig.

F1nut
Looks like VR3mods. is still up poking around it now.

xllr8

Schurkey
Turns out I don't have my Chesky with me, but I found http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php

& NOW I can CLEARLY hear what is keeping me from enjoying these speakers. The out of phase versions of the audio (where some types of 'stereo' effects lie) just scream, in comparison to the in phase stuff.

Can I run try these speakers SDA-2Bs without the interconnect? After the scare with the difference signal test I'm skeptical to make any changes that might blow up my amp.

I'd like my "phantom image" back directly in front of me, instead of breathing right next to me on either side (unless it was mixed that way of course).

xllr8

Schurkey
Turns out I don't have my Chesky with me, but I found http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php

& NOW I can CLEARLY hear what is keeping me from enjoying these speakers. The out of phase versions of the audio (where some types of 'stereo' effects lie) just scream, in comparison to the in phase stuff.

I'd like my "phantom image" back directly in front of me, instead of breathing right next to me on either side (unless it was mixed that way of course).

So, I tried them without the interconnect, to hear what the speakers themselves sounded like (in my current room & amplifier). I'm thinking it's time to move on; a little too spitty in the highs & veiled in the vocal body range for my current setup. It was nice have room filling smooth low end for a change, though.

Thanks for all the help & pointers. Just wish they weren't so damn heavy; they are pretty though.

Nightfall

SL2000 tweeters? They're shite. I went from Peerless to SL2000's and it was disappointing, to be honest. The new replacements, RD0194's that can be bought from Polk, are smoother and less bright.

F1nut

I'd like my "phantom image" back directly in front of me, instead of breathing right next to me on either side (unless it was mixed that way of course).

I take it you mean all the sound coming from in between the speakers. The problem there is live music doesn't sound like that. SDA gets much closer to the sound of live.

honestaquarian

http://www.polksda.com/srsreview.shtml

honestaquarian

This is the review that myself and @tugboat were referring to that f1nut says that no one else but me has read. @Heiney9 also posted this review on another SDA thread.

Schurkey

xllr8 wrote: »

Schurkey
Turns out I don't have my Chesky with me, but I found http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php

& NOW I can CLEARLY hear what is keeping me from enjoying these speakers. The out of phase versions of the audio (where some types of 'stereo' effects lie) just scream, in comparison to the in phase stuff.

I don't know what you mean by "scream", but this sounds to me like you have polarity problems. The out-of-phase sound should be diffuse and hard to localize. The in-phase sounds should be easy to "find".

xllr8 wrote: »

I'd like my "phantom image" back directly in front of me, instead of breathing right next to me on either side (unless it was mixed that way of course).

Again, that seems "off".

xllr8 wrote: »

So, I tried them without the interconnect, to hear what the speakers themselves sounded like (in my current room & amplifier). I'm thinking it's time to move on; a little too spitty in the highs & veiled in the vocal body range for my current setup. It was nice have room filling smooth low end for a change, though.

They shouldn't sound a bit different in the low-end with or without the cable. There's something wrong, we just haven't figured it out yet. Loss of bass with the cable attached again suggests an out-of-phase component in the acoustics--a driver wired backwards, or some other fault.

Don't give up. YOU HAVEN'T HEARD THESE SPEAKERS YET. You've been hearing the defect, and the defect will be fixable.

xllr8

Sorry for the confusion. The in/out phase tests check out, but the out of phase... seems louder. There is no loss of any kind without the interconnect, just a little less "lively".

Another test for Center, Mid Left/Right, & Left/Right, & Offstage was the most telling. The results put Mid Left/Right in the speakers & Left/Right as wonky as Offstage.

Again my reference for phantom image is studio & single driver setups (nothing fancy). This is an admittely "narrow" window into the musical experience, but it's the most reliable entry point in to what the mix engineer was hearing & mixing for, in my experience. Did a short stint as an audio engineering student/studio tech.

If anyone in Portland is interested. They check out by the quicktests, but just seem to be causing me more headaches than smiles.

xllr8

...or shoot! Feel free to come have a listen if you're in the area. 4 ears better than two?!

F1nut

And yet the official owner's manual clearly states, "Distance "S" should be at least 3 feet."

Deal with it.

tugboat

I bet the "S" distance noted in the manual was a compromise so people with smaller rooms would still purchase the speakers as it is the shortest distance with minimal impact. In a perfect world, space wouldn't be an issue and the manual would most likely state 5 1/2'.

Nothing to deal with. More information is better. Just because you don't like it, doesn't invalidate it.

F1nut

It's got nothing to do with whether I like it or not. It's what the manual says and it's been the suggestion around here since I joined. IMO, it's far better to say at least 3 feet so that people understand that is the minimum distance.

honestaquarian

It says right there in that review by Stereo Review magazine that Polk Audio says the distance ideally should be 5 1/2'. Obviously everyone (including myself) cannot do that because of space restrictions. It also says right there in that review that they heard sounds coming from beside them on some program material. Must have been a bad room or something

F1nut

Yep, too close to the back wall, too close together and seating was too far away.

Gunther16

You are all beating a dead horse. Placement is confounded by room size, experimentation is a must as is compromise. I would suggest using the minimum of 3' suggestion if possible (not possible in my case) and go from there experimenting with distance to back wall, distance apart etc. and find the best spot then leave it alone. Just saying.

tugboat

Gunther16 wrote: »

You are all beating a dead horse. Placement is confounded by room size, experimentation is a must as is compromise. I would suggest using the minimum of 3' suggestion if possible (not possible in my case) and go from there experimenting with distance to back wall, distance apart etc. and find the best spot then leave it alone. Just saying.

Exactly. I cannot get more than 2 1/2' from the side walls, but the width of the soundstage is amazing and so is the depth. Now it might not be perfect, but no other speakers I've owned have come close to the sound from these puppies.

heiney9

If you can't set-up SDA's properly to get the maximum benefit, then don't blame the speaker if it sounds poorly. That goes for anything.

Perhaps one should have done some research first or perhaps now it's time to move on to something that isn't so compromised and will fit into whatever your situation is.

I was aware of what SDA's needed to perform their best and my set-up is based on those requirements.

Not everything is going to work for everyone in every situation as intended. Not the fault of the product as there is a plethora of info about SDA's and how they need to be set-up to get maximum advantage of their unique properties.

Simple as that, really.

H9

P.s. All this whining about lack of room size and not being able to move them far enough apart or sit far enough away is not the speakers fault. Do some research before you buy things.

lightman1

I set mine in the front yard and pull up lawn chair and a cooler. Talk about spatial desperation and impact dynamics and other big words and phrases that confuse me and confound the neighbors!

xllr8

Thanks for all the spirited discussion; this passion led me to further experimentation with much more agreeable results.

The biggest factors I can point too, ...distance & pairings (Marantz over Harmon). NOW there is a strong front & center, with consistent beautiful stereo expansion.

Now, if I could I could just figure out what happened when I disconnected the negative terminals as per the SDA handbook. (In the quicktests section).

teekay0007

Hopefully a silly question (like the one in your TV manual's troubleshooting section that first asks, "Is the TV plugged into an AC socket?") for the OP: Do you have the speakers set up so the one labeled as "Right" is on your right-hand side, when you are facing the front of your speakers? Something mentioned above (probably what lightman1 said! ) brought this question to mind.

vmaxer

teekay0007 wrote: »

Hopefully a silly question (like the one in your TV manual's troubleshooting section that first asks, "Is the TV plugged into an AC socket?") for the OP: Do you have the speakers set up so the one labeled as "Right" is on your right-hand side, when you are facing the front of your speakers? Something mentioned above (probably what lightman1 said! ) brought this question to mind.

I have actually set mine up wrong before.