Unhappy with speakers so far

CelloScrim48

Hi, I’m looking for some help with set up. My system consists of an Onkyo TXNR747, POLK AUDIO TSX550T, POLK AUDIO TSX220B, POLK AUDIO TSX250C, POLK AUDIO PSW108. 14 guage wire with banana plugs and the front speakers are bi-amped.

While I realize someone could tens of thousands of dollars, I can’t and based on reviews I felt this package was one of my best options. Frankly, I was shocked at the sound coming from these speakers. As soon as I hooked them up hoping to be blown away I was surprised to hear a pretty muddy response somewhere in the mid to upper mid range.

None of the reviews I saw mentioned this. If anything, people said they were bass deficient which didn’t bother me since I ordered a sub woofer. The only way I can describe the sound is a lack of presence in the vocal range or let’s say in the range of a cello. I’ve noticed this with rock, classical and reggae.

I’ve used the auto EQ mike that came with the receiver and then set a preset with the manual equalizer bringing up the 4k to 6khz frequencies and then ran through all of the listening modes. It gets close, but never becomes crystal clear. My last set of $200 small bookshelf speakers had a more limited range but sound more accurate and all I was hoping for was a fairly flat accurate response.

HELP! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I feel like I must be missing something. Is speaker burn in a reality? Is this the frequency range that will improve with time? I’ve been on the phone several times with Onkyo and they’ve been very helpful. The one person I spoke with at Polk was disinterested at best.

Thanks in advance.

rpf65

Your AVR has the accu-eq calibration program. It doesn't actually calibrate the front 2, but it does all the others. I would start there.

You should try manually calibrating the front 2. You'll need a tape measure and spl meter, there is a couple of pretty decent apps out there if you don't have a meter.

Let us know the results.

msg

Or also try just running the front two speakers only, for now, and try direct mode, or at least with the EQ turned off.

What source are you using for your music?

Speaker break-in/burn-in is a real thing, yes. How long have you run them so far?
The bi-amp thing isn't really bi-amping in this case, so just get rid of that part, and use just one set of wires.

Those 550's are big speakers and may need more power than your AVR can provide in order for them to sound their best.

Try that.
I'd probably also try just the bookshelf speakers as fronts temporarily just to try to gauge performance of the AVR. Get them on a box at least if you don't have tables or stands. Just off the floor, especially if carpeted.

CelloScrim48

Thanks for the info. I've only run them for about 8 hours and only at low to moderate volume. Is it really necessary to crank up the volume to break them in? I'm sure it's different / case by case basis but about how long do you expect it takes before they are broken in?

F1nut

For starters and as mentioned, you are not bi-amping, period. However, what are doing is robbing Peter to pay Paul by taxing the single power supply. That is, the more channels you add, the less power per channel you get. So, it's rated at 110 wpc with only 2 channels driven. By the time you have 7 channels hooked up your AVR is likely down to 50 wpc, if that. Put the jumpers back on the fronts and forget you ever thought about bi-amping. That'll free up a bit more power.

Yes, speakers need to break in, but the volume level doesn't matter, so just let them play at a comfortable level. They should start to sound better after a 100 or so hours.

Your AVR has the accu-eq calibration program. It doesn't actually calibrate the front 2, but it does all the others.

Seriously? That's messed up. Oh well, CelloScrim48 you'll have to do what rpf65 stated. Either that or take it back and get an AVR with a real calibration program.

ROHfan

You should get a pair of modded SDA 2Bs with rebuilt crossovers and dynamatted baskets. In fact, I think there's a pair on the For Sale forum, now.

[Deleted User]

If you are not happy with the speakers, try without them for a while.
Might change your mind.

tonyb

CelloScrim48 wrote: »

Thanks for the info. I've only run them for about 8 hours and only at low to moderate volume. Is it really necessary to crank up the volume to break them in? I'm sure it's different / case by case basis but about how long do you expect it takes before they are broken in?

Do not crank the volume to break them in, simply play as usual for about 150-200 hours....you may not even notice because it happens slowly over time.

First, welcome to the forum. Before we place the blame on the speakers for your dissatisfaction, lets look at other areas' first.

Placement is going to play a big role in the muddy sound your saying is present. Are they sandwiched in a corner ? Too close to a back/side wall ? Most floorstanders need some breathing room around them, a good foot or 2 from a back wall and about 2-3 from a side wall is optimal though I realize we all can't do that given our rooms. Do your best in that regard.

Your subwoofer integration may also need some tweeking. The auto calibration is just a starting point, doesn't always get things right. Make sure your not using both the crossover in the subwoofer and the one in the receiver at the same time. If you have it hooked up in a way that gives the receiver the control, turn the crossover on the sub to it's highest value taking it out of the equation.

Your cabling also isn't doing you any favors if it's standard 14 ga. Home depot wire. Your most likely going to hear a very fatiguing top end.

Read your manual to the receiver, twice....cover to cover to get to know the adjustments available to you. As a basic starting point, Use the receiver in direct mode for 2 channel with no subwoofer in the mix and see how it sounds to you. You'll get a better perspective of the speakers capabilities and if the sound is for you or not.

CelloScrim48

TonyB Thanks for th suggestions

CelloScrim48

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions

msg

so how's it going?

slbenz

As F1Nut said, I would also put the front speakers back using one set of speaker wires and not "biamp" them as you have. I tried doing the same thing with a Pioneer Elite AVR I had and found every time that I "biamped" the fronts, there would be a midrange suck out that muddied the mids. Once I returned the speakers back to to a single speaker wire connection, it sounded better. These AVR manufacturers want you to believe that if they provide you an additional front set of speaker terminals, it will benefit you speaker's sound. They call it a biamp or biwire feature for your speakers. But it has no real benefits when you use an AVR. That one power supply can only do so much. The only real biamping with true benefits is using two external amps and an active crossover. Then you will hear real benefits.

trj

To OP,
What is your source for sound?
- Make sure you have a good source to test with. A good blu-ray or a CD you are familiar with. Plus make sure the connections to your AVR from the source are solid and you are using good quality cables.

Do all speakers sound muddy to you?
- Set all the speakers as small and let the subwoofer handle LFE. Auto calibration software on my yamaha usually sets even my surrounds as large. So, dont blindly trust the calibration software.
If it sounds better, its power issue. The AVR just doesnt have enough juice to send LFE signals to all the speakers.

- Try not to bi-amp from the receiver, put the jumper back on.
If it sounds better, its power issue. The AVR just doesnt have enough juice to run all the speakers.

- Try powering just two speakers, disconnect the surrounds. Even connect the sub and run the two main speakers as small. Make it a 2.1 system to test.
If it sounds better, you know its power issue. The AVR just doesnt have enough juice to run all the speakers.

-Try switching speakers around, or just swap the bananas behind the receiver to isolate if their is a problem with certain channel of the receiver. Please turn off the receiver prior to changing any connections.

- Try straight or pure direct(yamaha language) so no processing goes through and see if you find any difference.

- Make sure you have your receiver set to 8 ohms and not 6 ohms.

I am not familiar with the particular onkyo you have, but with all the HDMI board failures they had in the past, I would be really careful with anything demanding (bi amping, driving speakers as large, driving 5 or more speakers at higher volumes) that would put strain on the receiver.

I would say, try a different receiver and see if anything improves.

Again, play with placement and check your cables. Everytime you move the speakers run the calibration software.

tonyb

I think he checked out....probably returned them....or made a nice planter box out of 'em.

codycatalist

I feel like the forum is my hotel California. I can check in but never leave....

tonyb

codycatalist wrote: »

I feel like the forum is my hotel California. I can check in but never leave....

codycatalist wrote: »

I feel like the forum is my hotel California. I can check in but never leave....

.....and if you do, we send Russ over to your house to destroy your landscaping. Any questions ? lol

lightman1