Monitor 12s Clean on Small?

CGTIII
CGTIII Posts: 1,070
edited April 2016 in Vintage Speakers
I read the 12s are somewhat muddy sounding due to the duplication/interaction between the mids. Has anyone tried setting the receiver crossover to +/- 90 Hz and using sub(s) to clean up the sound? I seems this would help minimize interaction between them.

Considering this for a friend with a very low budget and a very large, two-story open layout space to help fill it using a Yamaha HTR-5740 (100Wpc discrete 6.1.) He listens to mostly Rat Pack era. Comments on his musical taste unnecessary.
Expect that there will be bumps in the road. Choose to not let them rattle you.

Polk - Monitor 10As, SDA 2Bs, LSi9s, White RTi4s, S4s, M3s, various centers.
Boston - CR7, CR6s, CR4s.
Subs - M&K V4, M&K VX-7B, JBL SUB150P, Jamo Sub 250, and others.
​Thompson Adventures, Inc.
Post edited by CGTIII on
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  • CGTIII
    CGTIII Posts: 1,070
    edited April 2016
    Want to fully understand -- what do you mean by unconcerned?
    Expect that there will be bumps in the road. Choose to not let them rattle you.

    Polk - Monitor 10As, SDA 2Bs, LSi9s, White RTi4s, S4s, M3s, various centers.
    Boston - CR7, CR6s, CR4s.
    Subs - M&K V4, M&K VX-7B, JBL SUB150P, Jamo Sub 250, and others.
    ​Thompson Adventures, Inc.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,548
    What he means is that to the inexperienced or casual listener the smearing caused by the drivers being next to each other may not be apparent. I agree with Skip that adding a sub will not address that issue.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Mystery
    Mystery Posts: 2,546
    They need some room.
    Small room makes them sound crowded.
    Should work fine but can use an amp instead of ht receiver for louder volumes.

    Klipsch RB81, KG3.5, B&W DM602.5, Polk.
    Subwoofers: Klipsch RW10, Triad ProSub Bronze.
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  • CGTIII
    CGTIII Posts: 1,070
    @F1nut - I hadn't seen "smearing" in this context before. That's very descriptive. TY.

    @DSkip - He's not that discriminating. My car might sound better than he's ever heard, but it is a bit above average ;)

    @Mystery - Unfortunately his budget won't soon make an extra amp possible. Likely he could use it though as his first floor is at least 1250 sq ft of open space plus the mezzanine. Thanks for the suggestion though.
    Expect that there will be bumps in the road. Choose to not let them rattle you.

    Polk - Monitor 10As, SDA 2Bs, LSi9s, White RTi4s, S4s, M3s, various centers.
    Boston - CR7, CR6s, CR4s.
    Subs - M&K V4, M&K VX-7B, JBL SUB150P, Jamo Sub 250, and others.
    ​Thompson Adventures, Inc.
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  • CGTIII
    CGTIII Posts: 1,070
    Would you guys expect two 12s to be better in his case (given ear, budget, receiver, and space) than two RT55s?
    Expect that there will be bumps in the road. Choose to not let them rattle you.

    Polk - Monitor 10As, SDA 2Bs, LSi9s, White RTi4s, S4s, M3s, various centers.
    Boston - CR7, CR6s, CR4s.
    Subs - M&K V4, M&K VX-7B, JBL SUB150P, Jamo Sub 250, and others.
    ​Thompson Adventures, Inc.
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  • Mystery
    Mystery Posts: 2,546
    I haven't owned RT55 but read that they are pretty good speakers.
    Bookshelves plus a sub or two maybe cleaner sounding option depending upon placement.

    Klipsch RB81, KG3.5, B&W DM602.5, Polk.
    Subwoofers: Klipsch RW10, Triad ProSub Bronze.
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  • CGTIII
    CGTIII Posts: 1,070
    Thanks Myst.
    Expect that there will be bumps in the road. Choose to not let them rattle you.

    Polk - Monitor 10As, SDA 2Bs, LSi9s, White RTi4s, S4s, M3s, various centers.
    Boston - CR7, CR6s, CR4s.
    Subs - M&K V4, M&K VX-7B, JBL SUB150P, Jamo Sub 250, and others.
    ​Thompson Adventures, Inc.
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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,086
    edited April 2016
    Is there a reason those are the only choices?

    Is this near you?

    https://southcoast.craigslist.org/msg/5511099619.html
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • CGTIII
    CGTIII Posts: 1,070
    Not only choices, but best available values that I see.

    Are 11Ts a favorite of yours, or just an option you believe would be a good fit?
    A better fit than the m12s or RT55s?

    southcoast - I'm in NW Metro Atlanta, but appreciate the suggestion.
    I see a pair of 11TL locally for $200, but the finish is so rough, I'd be embarrassed to suggest them for him. (He's on his third decorator in this house in several years. Perhaps more visually than aurally critical. :o )
    Expect that there will be bumps in the road. Choose to not let them rattle you.

    Polk - Monitor 10As, SDA 2Bs, LSi9s, White RTi4s, S4s, M3s, various centers.
    Boston - CR7, CR6s, CR4s.
    Subs - M&K V4, M&K VX-7B, JBL SUB150P, Jamo Sub 250, and others.
    ​Thompson Adventures, Inc.
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  • soundfreak1
    soundfreak1 Posts: 3,414
    The m12 (I've had a pair) are very boomie. Good house rocker speakers but in no way critical listening speakers. Little detail or sound stage, but a lot of boommmmmm.
    Main Rig:
    Krell KAV 250a biamped to mid/highs
    Parasound HCA1500A biamped to lows
    Nakamichi EC100 Active xover
    MIT exp 1 ic's
    Perreaux SA33 class A preamp
    AQ kingcobra ic's
    OPPO 83 CDP
    Lehmann audio black cube SE phono pre, Audioquest phono wire (ITA1/1)
    Denon DP-1200 TT. AToc9ML MC cart.
    Monster HTS 3600 power conditioner
    ADS L1590/2 Biamped
    MIT exps2 speaker cable
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Adding spikes in my opinion is the easiest and single best thing you can do to M-12's to stop loading the floor and walls with enclosure resonance. Sealing the enclosure's seams and making sure all drivers and input cups are tight and have good sealing will make them less "boomy" too. Set of spikes is still your best money and time spent though.

    I've found treating them like SDA's makes a huge difference too as for placement goes. No toe in is a must. Follow set up instruction you can find for most SDA models and you'll be fine. Then take the board pros' advice and ditch the stock tweeters for RDO-198's and you'll have a whole new sounding pair of respectable speakers. It's amazing how much the 198's change that speaker's overall performance.

    And of course make sure all of the drivers move freely and all are still connected. If one has been unplugged you lose two drivers because of the series/parallel harness. That leaves you with two mid-woofers in an enclosure double the size they want and the non-playing mid-woofers turn into more passive radiator surface area. End result, lower extension and more boomage. Just make sure they're all happy and do the rest spelled out above before passing judgement. They're never going to sound like $2000+ SDA's or $5000 B&W's. BUT you'll probably only have a couple hundred bucks in them which makes them a killer purchase you probably won't regret. If you still don't dig them, the first local frat house guy that hears them will buy them since they take abuse pretty well, are dynamic sounding, and are smaller than Cerwin Vega D9's that most frat houses like to pound on. I still say, buy them, get them off the floor, do a little tweaking and you might just like them regardless what others might say you shouldn't like. Everyone's ears are different so if they sound good to you, everyone else can go.......
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