speaking of (vintage) Japanese massmarket loudspeakers
mhardy6647
Posts: 33,763
The subject of "kabuki" speakers came up in a recent thread here, which got me thinking about, and looking for, examples of what always seemed to me to have been a horrible mis-read by the major Japanese hifi electronics manufacturers of US tastes in loudspeakers.
I've known and/or worked with numerous Japanese audiophiles over the years; most have superb taste (relative to mine, that is!) in loudspeakers -- in the days when Japan was king of the world's economy, the fine vintage Altec, JBL, WE and suchlike hardware was flowing to Japan (more recently, it flows to South Korea, China and even Vietnam).
Perusal of http://www.audio-heritage.jp shows that the Japanese manufacturers were perfectly capable of competing with hardware of that ilk... and of course, TAD is still a going concern, as are Fostex and, to some extent, Diatone (Mitsubishi).
TAD's history is quite interesting, but that's another story (although it has its roots, as best I can tell, in Bart Locanthi's tenure with Pioneer that culminated in the "HPM" speakers).
But, by and large, did the big guns of Japan share their fine-grade loudspeaker hardware with the US?
Naah, we got stuff like this:
Stay tuned for more pointless ruminations ;- )
I've known and/or worked with numerous Japanese audiophiles over the years; most have superb taste (relative to mine, that is!) in loudspeakers -- in the days when Japan was king of the world's economy, the fine vintage Altec, JBL, WE and suchlike hardware was flowing to Japan (more recently, it flows to South Korea, China and even Vietnam).
Perusal of http://www.audio-heritage.jp shows that the Japanese manufacturers were perfectly capable of competing with hardware of that ilk... and of course, TAD is still a going concern, as are Fostex and, to some extent, Diatone (Mitsubishi).
TAD's history is quite interesting, but that's another story (although it has its roots, as best I can tell, in Bart Locanthi's tenure with Pioneer that culminated in the "HPM" speakers).
But, by and large, did the big guns of Japan share their fine-grade loudspeaker hardware with the US?
Naah, we got stuff like this:
Stay tuned for more pointless ruminations ;- )
Comments
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I once had a pair of Technics SB-P1000's that I liked a lot in the late seventies.
They had the split "venetian blind" tweeter diffusers on them -
well, there's a legitimate usage of such "diffuser" lenses, pioneered by (or, at least, popularized by) JBL...
(the latter image is from www.lansing-heritage.org)
but, by 1980 or so, companies like Sansui (and others of their ilk, such as -- ahem -- Kenwood) had taken to putting plastic imitations in front of cone tweeters.
http://www.decware.com/paper10.htm
(actually the Kenwood reviled by Steve Deckert tried to make a cone tweeter look like a planar or ribbon tweeter -- but the same "imitation precision" aesthetic is rampant in either case!)
I don't know about your Technics loudspeakers.
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looks like the Technics may have been legit...
EDIT: or maybe not...
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In the 1970s, many of the big Japanese names sold low-price loudspeakers in the US that (for logistical reasons, I presume) were actually made (assembled, at least) in the US.
Pioneer, for example, had their "Project" series of loudspeakers.
Project 60, 80, 100, (maybe a 120, too), and some "A" variants.
Long, long ago, I found a pair of Project 100A speakers at the Harvard, MA town dump. Vinyl-clad particle board bass reflex cabinets, loaded with a 10" woofer, 2-ish inch cone tweeter... and a dome MR. Odd, eh?
I refoamed the woofers (one of my first refoaming projects, actually) and listened to them when I was finished. To my surprise (astonishment, actually), they sound good. Quite a bit better, to me, than the lattice-grille "kabuki" Japanese-made Pioneer speakers of the mid/late 1970s. The latter Pioneer speakers were also considerably more expensive than the "Projects".
Project100A by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
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Hey, I'm no audio snob, I love ressurecting tag sale/goodwill finds....and I'm usually on my scooter when I find them.
It's not uncommon to see me gingerly riding home, with a 50 lb. subwoofer strapped onto the back seat. -
Looking back it's amazing to me I never owned any of the large lattice Kabuki type speakers. It seemed that G.I.s coming back from Nam were bringing them in by the thousands. Here we had Cerwin Vegas for frat parties, JBLs for both moderately priced as well as very expensive models. East Coast had EPI, KLH, ADC,Advents, A-Rs,Cambridge, Boston Acoustics, Bose etal. The mid Atlantic region had their few but great brands. Fraziers, Dalhquist, OHM, Rectilinears, Marantz, Polk and even McIntosh. The south had Klipsch.
I guess when taking a good look back we did have variety, only that they were all kinda packaged the same as we now know them as Monkey Coffins and all those dodads slapped on those Kabuki sets made for a terrible speaker but I guess easy or impressive on the eyes2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E
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Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc -
I was a Radio Shack junkie back in the 70's and still would like to have my old Optimus 1B's back in my line up.
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leftwinger57 wrote: »Looking back it's amazing to me I never owned any of the large lattice Kabuki type speakers. It seemed that G.I.s coming back from Nam were bringing them in by the thousands. Here we had Cerwin Vegas for frat parties, JBLs for both moderately priced as well as very expensive models. East Coast had EPI, KLH, ADC,Advents, A-Rs,Cambridge, Boston Acoustics, Bose etal. The mid Atlantic region had their few but great brands. Fraziers, Dalhquist, OHM, Rectilinears, Marantz, Polk and even McIntosh. The south had Klipsch.
I guess when taking a good look back we did have variety, only that they were all kinda packaged the same as we now know them as Monkey Coffins and all those dodads slapped on those Kabuki sets made for a terrible speaker but I guess easy or impressive on the eyes
Fundamentally, the biggest problem (IMO) with most of the "Kabuki" designs was putting a too large woofer in a too-small sealed box. -
I was always amazed the size of the woofer to box size. I'm surprised the 15" woofers didn't suck the mid-ranges and tweeters back into the box.
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I was always amazed the size of the woofer to box size. I'm surprised the 15" woofers didn't suck the mid-ranges and tweeters back into the box.
Yup == in fairness, I misrepresented them a bit; some were sealed boxes but many were also ported.
By and large, though, I think the net effect was the same: underdamped woofers with a pronounced rise in "midbass" response. A very popular sound in some circles in the 1970s (maybe even still today) -- unfortunately.
... and not all Sansuis were laughable.
source: http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=80582 -
Polkaguy58 wrote: »I was a Radio Shack junkie back in the 70's and still would like to have my old Optimus 1B's back in my line up.
My 1st real speakers were 1B's, moved on to 5B's. Funny, fairly recently karma'd them to forum member @DaveMuell 's son. -
mhardy6647 wrote: »I was always amazed the size of the woofer to box size. I'm surprised the 15" woofers didn't suck the mid-ranges and tweeters back into the box.
Yup == in fairness, I misrepresented them a bit; some were sealed boxes but many were also ported.
By and large, though, I think the net effect was the same: underdamped woofers with a pronounced rise in "midbass" response. A very popular sound in some circles in the 1970s (maybe even still today) -- unfortunately.
... and not all Sansuis were laughable.
source: http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=80582
Have you ever put an ear on these ?? I never knew about them.
P-man
Because I am The Pumpkinking
A Kind Word Is An Easy Gift To Give -
No, I haven't. They're not common, but word back when they were new & even still today was that they were in a different league than most of the Sansui speakers.
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A lot depends on what you are driving them with and what music one plays. I have a few dozen Kabui loudspeakers among the hundreds that I own. Generally a 6 watt single ended class a amp and 60s rock or jazz sounds fine on these speakers, especially the Sansui SP-3500, some Pioneers and JBLs.
If you want to really enjoy their sound, you need to go whole hog and get a low power amp and play 60s music. There is no sense sticking these speakers at the end of a moden, high powered system and expect anything good to happen. Alternatively, one could try someting like a Sansui 2000A receiver. That might be OK, too.
Frankly, I hated the Kabuki sound and also most older Klipsch and EV speakers until I began driving them with tubes or older low powered amps. Then they sound lovely. The same could be said about speakers based on full range drivers such as JBL D123 and many other older speakers.
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Speakers: Polk Lsim, ATC SCM19 v2, NHT SuperzeroSpeaker Cables: DH Labs, Transparent, Wireworld, Canare, Monster: Beer budget, Bose ears -
A lot depends on what you are driving them with and what music one plays. I have a few dozen Kabui loudspeakers among the hundreds that I own. Generally a 6 watt single ended class a amp and 60s rock or jazz sounds fine on these speakers, especially the Sansui SP-3500, some Pioneers and JBLs.
Since you already have a few dozen, couldn't hurt to have one more pair. Very rare Sansui SP-3200 in like new condition with original boxes. I doubt you could find a cleaner set!
