Adcom vs. Outlaw ??

disneyjoe7

As anyone compared these amps together?

VR3

I am not sure of the sound overall. Some say Adcom has a grainy top end - I disagree.

Adcom offers killer bang for the buck. ESPECIALLY used. I am not so sure about new.

Outlaw is a great brand, I have heard their preamp, and it is built like a tank. Either would be great, but in the end (being me), I would take Adcom.

Outlaw runs colder too, I am sure. lol. You can fry eggs on Adcom's older stuff.

disneyjoe7

Thanks sid,

Do you know anything about the design of outlaw? You stated that is runs cooler is it a digital design of some kind?

>>Outlaw runs colder too, I am sure. lol. You can fry eggs on Adcom's older stuff.<<

VR3

Not sure, I know it is regular ol Sand amp, but alot of members that own them say they run cold. I know they have a good bit of heat sinks, and not sure what class they are....

Adcom is pure class A, and they can cook things...

Outlaw supplies their amp sections with their own heat sink. So if you have a 5 channel amp, you get 5 heat sinks -- they also mount the power supplies at the back of the amp. They probally just run cooler altogether.

Adcom sounds great, but if you have an enclosed rack I do not recomend them. It will tear it up and the components inside of it.

HBombToo

Model 770 Technical Specifications
Power output: 200 watts RMS x 7 (all channels driven simultaneously into 8 ohms from 20 Hz to 20 kHz with less than 0.05% total harmonic distortion). 300 watts RMS x 7 @ 4 ohms

S/N: 119 dB

Power Bandwidth: 5 Hz - over 100 kHz (+0/-3 dB)

Damping factor: 850 (10 Hz - 400 Hz)

Input sensitivity/Impedance: 1.43 volts for full output/28 k ohms

Crosstalk: Greater than -90 dB from 20 Hz to 20 KHz

Gain: Voltage gain of 28 dB

Slew rate: 50 Volts/microsecond

Remote Trigger voltage: 3 - 32 volts DC

Power requirements: 115 V 50-60 Hz

Power consumption: 1,800 watts (maximum)

Dimensions (W x H x D): 17.2 x 7.75 with feet x 18 (inches)

Weight: 90 (lbs)

VR3

I know you are asking about Outlaw and Adcom souly here.....

but......

If you check out EBay, Soundcraftsmen ---

300 watt 2 channel amps sell for 150 + shipping. So you figure you can get a 6 channel setup for 600 bucks, 300 watts a channel. Soundcraftsmen offer ALOT of reserve, they are under-rated and run ICE COLD at most all volumes. They are like Class H, very cold running stuff. I plan to get one for the SDA rig in the future.

disneyjoe7

From the spec's it should be SWEET baby.....

Damping factor 850:D

Slew Rate 50v per ms.:D

Sweet......

Just want to know if class a/b or digital (I hope A/B)
Transistor vs MOSFET (I hope Transistor)

The web site is not spelling it out for me.



Not sure I was thinking that I wouldn't like Adcom but I was shopping today, and that didn't sound to bad, in fact very nice.

Originally posted by HBombToo
Model 770 Technical Specifications
Power output: 200 watts RMS x 7 (all channels driven simultaneously into 8 ohms from 20 Hz to 20 kHz with less than 0.05% total harmonic hdistortion). 300 watts RMS x 7 @ 4 ohms

S/N: 119 dB

Power Bandwidth: 5 Hz - over 100 kHz (+0/-3 dB)

Damping factor: 850 (10 Hz - 400 Hz)

Input sensitivity/Impedance: 1.43 volts for full output/28 k ohms

Crosstalk: Greater than -90 dB from 20 Hz to 20 KHz

Gain: Voltage gain of 28 dB

Slew rate: 50 Volts/microsecond

Remote Trigger voltage: 3 - 32 volts DC

Power requirements: 115 V 50-60 Hz

Power consumption: 1,800 watts (maximum)

Dimensions (W x H x D): 17.2 x 7.75 with feet x 18 (inches)

Weight: 90 (lbs)

nemos2

I have not heard the adcom, but I own an outlaw 755. I run the LSi 15's on the outlaw. The 755 is built like a tank. I have not had any problems with the outlaw. In fact, just in case you did have a problem, there is a 30 day money back policy. The people of outlaw are great, and owners of outlaws, are very supportive on their forum. SO....just had to throw my 0.02 in.

HBombToo

I do believe the outlaw is AB which IMHO is GREAT for quality and reliability. ~100 lBs its a back breaker to dust under:D

HBomb

BTW, slew rate is my favorite spec followed by damping. But hey... I'm HBangedUpToo:D

disneyjoe7

Yes henry,

Those spec's look again sweet, I always like the damping factor but the slew looked really fast too.

And liked your

I'm HBangedUpToo



BTW have you ever heard the outlaw?

HBombToo

Originally posted by disneyjoe7


BTW have you ever heard the outlaw?

I have owned the Outlaw 770 for a couple years now and think it does an outstanding job. For under 2K and 7 channels at 200W per this thing is a beast.

HBomb

disneyjoe7

Henry,

Not to start anything but have to ask you.

How would you compare this too Adcom?

HBombToo

Originally posted by disneyjoe7
Henry,

Not to start anything but have to ask you.

How would you compare this too Adcom?

other than a few shops I have been in and gave the adcoms a listen have no real in home comparison. I thought the adcom amps that I did hear sounded good but I felt they didn't sound any better than my outlaw. For a true comparison I would really have to sit with the amp...

I have compared at home my Outlaw with a NAK PA-7 Stasis and of course my h/k520 and felt the Outlaw was great in both cases. The outlaw was the most neutral in both cases and is a very accurate amp. The outlaw performs so well with both SACD/DVD-A and of course movies. I have never sensed any noise or distortion at whatever power level was pushing. Granted the RTi800, "the finest speaker ever built;)", is very easy to drive but I have pushed my system to the threshold of pain and never was I concerned about destroying anything but my house.

For an all purpose format amp I think the Outlaw is the ticket.

Henry

disneyjoe7

Henry,

Great info, and I know that A/B comparsion are hard when Outlaw is not sold in stores. But then again the price wouldn't be there.

Ron-P

You can fry eggs on Adcom's older stuff.

I'll raise a hand in disagreement. After running for several hours at near reference levels, all 4 of my 535s just get warm to the touch, never hot or "fry and egg hot".

I was very surprised at how cool the Adcoms actually ran compared to my Marantz receiver which gets fairly hot.


Peace Out~:D

RVJII

Class AB...found a few reviews

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=1&article_id=483&page_number=2&preview=

Although the M-Blocks are AB/G...AB up to 80 watts and then transitions to G for more power.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=1&article_id=434&page_number=1

Can anyone tell me what that means???

disneyjoe7

Hello Ron,

Running Acdom 535's nice, was reading that Acdom switched from transistors / bipolar to MOSFET the model numbers in the 3 series are transistors and the 4 series are MOSFET's. I also read somewhere that the 535 sounded better then the 545.

I was never a fan of MOSFET in the output section (call me old school maybe) but in short heard a 7605 (I think may have to check model number), and I was impressed so my thinking of MOSFET's maybe changing.

RVJII

Ok, I found the answer myself. Although, if any of you could give a better explanation it would be appreciated.

Class G operation involves changing the power supply voltage from a lower level to a higher level when larger output swings are required. There have been several ways to do this. The simplest involves a single class AB output stage that is connected to two power supply rails by a diode, or a transistor switch. The design is such that for most musical program material, the output stage is connected to the lower supply voltage, and automatically switches to the higher rails for large signal peaks [thus the nickname rail-switcher]. Another approach uses two class AB output stages, each connected to a different power supply voltage, with the magnitude of the input signal determining the signal path. Using two power supplies improves efficiency enough to allow significantly more power for a given size and weight. Class G is becoming common for pro audio designs.

VR3

The 535 does NOT sound better than the 545. They sound identicle. The 545 has more umph.

Maybe I am just not as technical as others...

I have not heard the Mosfet Adcom amps, they are way to expensive for my blood. The 200 watt amp by Adcom is like 1 grand, and the used one is 400...HUGE difference.

The GFA-535 II replacement sells for the price of the GFA-555 II used......

disneyjoe7

Sid,

I my feeling for the 535 sounding better then the 545 was something I had read back a day or so before. I reread this and sorry you're right it was the 555 to the smaller siblings 545 / 535.

Posted is the review I read.

Quote.
By Wayne Garcia

Thirteen years ago, Adcom made a Deep Impact-like splash with its GFA-555 power amp, a 200 watt-per-channel solid-state unit which provided, as they say, "a lot of bang for the buck" (750 bucks, to be precise). And while the Nelson Pass-designed 555 did provide lots of power for the money, it was not a terribly refined-sounding amp (grainy as a silo, rather lean and aggressive). I preferred the sound of the 555’s smaller siblings, the 100 watt GFA-545 and 60 watt GFA-535). Nonetheless, Adcom – along with the help of certain audio reviewers – sold mountains of 555s, and established itself as the company of choice for the budget-minded high-end hopeful.


The whole link.

http://www.adcom.com/itemreviews_004.htm

VR3

I have never heard the Adcom GFA-555...

I can't really comment.

But the 545, 535, are some nice amps. They just run rather hot...

disneyjoe7

Sid,


Funny you said that per adcom website just the opposite maybe true.

Quote from Adcom.

>My amplifier seems to run hot. Is this a problem?

Probably not. Most Adcom amplifiers use output devices called "MOSFETs" (which stands for metal oxide semiconductor field effect transistor, if you're curious). We've chosen these devices for their superb 'musicality'. They do, however, run hotter than more conventional bipolar transistors. We have designed our amplifiers with large 'heat sinks' made up of aluminum fins that dissipate excess transistor heat into the air. Just make sure you provide adequate room for ventilation as opposed to stacking other equipment directly on top of your amplifier.




What's the difference between your old amps and your new ones?

Well, the biggest difference goes back to MOSFETs again. Most of our newer "4 number" amplifiers (i.e. the GFA-5802) use MOSFETs while all our older "3 number" amplifiers (i.e. the GFA-555), used bipolars.




So, are bipolar amplifiers bad?

Actually bipolars have some advantages. As noted above, they produce less heat for a given power output. This makes them suitable for more compact components or for multi-channel, home theater amplifiers. As such, we have chosen to use them in our custom oriented amplifiers, the GFA-5002 and the GFA-5006, where size can be at a premium, and in our multi-channel, home theater amplifiers, the GFA-7500, GFA-7400 and GFA-7300.


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The whole link....

http://www.adcom.com/faq.htm#/main/data/faq/itemfaq_007.xml

VR3

OMG...

So the mosfets run HOTTER than the older ones? :eek:

If thats the case, I will stick to my egg cookers/space heaters I have now...lol

That is weird, I would imagine they would run colder...lol

If you see the pics of my Dad's rig in his equipment rack -- the Adcom's have just dismantled the adhesive on the back side of the vinyl shelves, just ripping them apart..lol, that is why we moved them out of the case.