Pros and cons of speaker soundstage

Gunther16

Well just for kicks visited my local audio specialties dealer to audition some of the newer high end speakers over the weekend. Had the opportunity to listen to some really nice sounding brands from A to Z. Even fell in love a time or two. All were in a price range I cant justify but wanted to.

Got back home and listened to my ooooold Polk 3.1TL's and was amazed at the soundstage they provide over the lineup I just auditioned. To the point of "what was I thinking"? Interestingly enough was that I thought I wanted something new and "improved" but quickly changed my mind. All auditioned speakers gave fantastic sound but everything was really localized and did not give me that live concert feeling.
So, I'm interested having the forum membership provide their opinion on the pros and cons of soundstage represented by any speaker. Looking forward to a lively discussion

honestaquarian

I too have been beguiled by the "Newer and hotter" stuff out there and then returned to my SDA's and settled in and was perfectly happy!
There is something addictive about the soundstage that Polk SDA loudspeakers produce (*ESPECIALLY if they're set up properly with no large pieces of furniture close to them/not being within three to five feet of sidewalls-SDA's need BREATHING ROOM in order to give you the famous SDA soundstage that they were designed for*) that you just cannot get elsewhere. That is why they have such a devoted following of nutjobs on here!!

Nightfall

There are cons? What?

Rex81

A con I've heard from some people is that the SDA "effect" is just that: an effect, and therefore unnatural. I personally disagree with this. Hearing a huge soundstage well outside the speakers is indeed different than most speakers. However, my argument is that if you're a musician used to being on a stage surrounded by other instruments, it's not unnatural at all. This is how music is heard by those on stage or those in the front 2 or 3 rows of a performance. That's natural to me. Other speakers sound natural if you're used to being in the 13th or 14th row. And that's fine too, I suppose. I just prefer to be on stage with the band.

honestaquarian

Polk SDA's and the Carver Sonic Hologram Generator are not for everyone

heiney9

SDA is a way better implementation than the Sonic Hologram Generator. Apples and Oranges.

While I will say SDA is not for everyone, it is the most natural way to listen. The way SDA creates an image is more realistic (as in the way it happens naturally) than anything else. But there are obviously many variables that can and do challenge the end result. The biggest being how the material was recorded, source, placement, room, etc, etc.

Sit down sometime with the lights low and listen to Jazz at the Pawnshop........hairs will literally stand up on the back of your neck. Eff'ing unreal.

H9

MrBuhl

I love my SDA's and the soundstage they provide, and I agree with H9, I've had the Sonic Hologram Generator, not the same thing at all.

But if there is a con for wide soundstage, (SDA or otherwise) - I find it to be one of smearing generally. That and the fact that many recordings are just not engineered to provide that wide a stage. It's very hit and miss between the really excellent ones, and the ho-hum ones.

Just IMO of course.

honestaquarian

heiney9 wrote: »

SDA is a way better implementation than the Sonic Hologram Generator. Apples and Oranges.

While I will say SDA is not for everyone, it is the most natural way to listen. The way SDA creates an image is more realistic (as in the way it happens naturally) than anything else. But there are obviously many variables that can and do challenge the end result. The biggest being how the material was recorded, source, placement, room, etc, etc.

Sit down sometime with the lights low and listen to Jazz at the Pawnshop........hairs will literally stand up on the back of your neck. Eff'ing unreal.

H9

@heiney9
I have Jazz at the Pawnshop on Lp (*and thinking about getting the DSD download from suoerhirez.com*)I will have to dig that one up as I haven't listened to it on years.
Thanks!
As for which is better-Sonic Hologram-versus SDA. That is one which can (*and has*)started many debates amongst the dedicated.

hochpt21

Shoot...I thought this thread would be about Roger Waters new line of audiophile speakers

F1nut

I have to agree with Brock and Ed, Carver's version fails to deliver.

honestaquarian

I always thought that the Sonic Hologram delivered the same kind of soundstage that the SDA's did. However it is even more finicky to set up the loudspeakers properly in order to get the desired effect (*and I am willing to bet that most never heard it properly because of that caveat*) It also does not work properly with all loudspeakers,due to their designs. However since it runs the interaural crosstalk cancellation full range like the original SDA's did,it can sound kind of phasey and gimmicky like the Polks were sometimes accused of in the beginning thirty odd years ago.
I have owned a couple of devices with Sonic hologram Generators,as well as a stand alone Sonic Hologram Generator.

F1nut

I owned the stand alone with Plats and SDA's at the same time. I still have the SDA's. I've also heard various versions of SH in a multitude of rigs.

honestaquarian

Plats??

tonyb

honestaquarian wrote: »

Plats??

Carvers I'm guessing.

honestaquarian

If it was the Amazings in any of their forms my experience with them was that while it sounded pleasing,the Sonic Holigram generator DID NOT deliver as intended.This is what I was talking about above,that being the fact that it didn't work well with some loudspeakers because of their design. Planars(Magnepan,Acoustat,Martin Logan,Carver,etc) were not good speakers to use the Sonic hologram on.

tonyb

Interesting, because I was under the impression the SHG was made for the Amazings. Could have been something else was amiss in the setup.

F1nut

Yes, Carver Platinum Amazing Mark IV's and Tony's right, the SHG was specifically made for the Amazing speakers. It was an extra cost option.

honestaquarian

Actually one of the latter versions of the Sonic hologram generator was made for the Amazings. The original version was included in the Carver C-4000 preamp (*which was a redo of an earlier Phase Linear preamp-Bob Carver's first company if you recall*) along with the Auto Correlator noise reduction circuit. the C-4000 preamp and the M-400 Magnetic Field cube amp were Carver corp's first products going back to circa 1979-1980. This predates even the original two ribbon Amazing loudspeaker. Can you tell I'm a bit of a Bob Carver fan??
(*this is the part where SOME people immediately go into fact checking mode to try to debunk what I am saying*)
I remember going into some Hi-Fi shop back in the eighties where they had a pair of the original Amazings set up with a pair of M-1.0t amps in bridged mode at 1000 wpc and driving those suckers into clipping playing Barbra Streisands Somewhere. MAN those things were power hungry!!

F1nut

That's what we said, the stand alone SHG was specifically made for the Amazings.

JPete

I've played with the SHG on my Carver C-1 pre with a bunch of speakers, in different rooms, different setups, etc... The C-1 is sitting on a shelf unused now and SDAs are the daily flavor going on 2 years or so. No comparison in my opinion either. SDAs sounded natural to me the first time I hooked them up. Carver never did.

tonyb

JPete wrote: »

I've played with the SHG on my Carver C-1 pre with a bunch of speakers, in different rooms, different setups, etc... The C-1 is sitting on a shelf unused now and SDAs are the daily flavor going on 2 years or so. No comparison in my opinion either. SDAs sounded natural to me the first time I hooked them up. Carver never did.

That's pretty much the general consensus. The SHG has a different sound to it than SDA's. They both achieve the same thing but in different ways, and those different ways is what dictates the difference in sound between the 2. Most prefer the SDA route for it's more natural presentation.

slbenz

heiney9 wrote: »

SDA is a way better implementation than the Sonic Hologram Generator. Apples and Oranges.

While I will say SDA is not for everyone, it is the most natural way to listen. The way SDA creates an image is more realistic (as in the way it happens naturally) than anything else. But there are obviously many variables that can and do challenge the end result. The biggest being how the material was recorded, source, placement, room, etc, etc.

Sit down sometime with the lights low and listen to Jazz at the Pawnshop........hairs will literally stand up on the back of your neck. Eff'ing unreal.

H9

The other thing I noticed when I used my modified Carver C-9 or C-1, it added a veil to the sound even though it did create that large and deep soundstage that my current SDA speakers can provide. The SDA implementation lets the live performance through while both Carver units I had masked that. Which is why I sold both units.

honestaquarian

The Carver C-9 was not created for the Amazings. It was made for people who wanted the Hologram and didn't have one of the Carver preamps that had the built in generator. The later versions of the Hologram generator that came post C-9 had kind of a lessened hologram effect to reduce the phasiness issues that could easily get out of hand when people were just pushing buttons on the C-9,the C-1 preamp or the C-4000 preamp. I had a Carver integrated amp-the CM-1090 in my bedroom system that had the later version of the Hologram generator. Prior to that I had a Carver Receiver 900 and a C-9. The Holograms were VERY different.
Again I prefer the Polk SDA's,however I ain't got no room for SDA's in my bedroom. Which is why I used to use the Hologram. The earlier versions also used an analog chip which introduced noise into the signal and I agree with @slbenz that it veiled the signal. The Hologram generator in the later Sunfire Theater Grand pre/pro's implemented the Hologram in the digtal domain.

honestaquarian

I would of course expect people on a Polk forum to prefer the SDA's. However I have had debates with people in the past-off of this forum of course-about which is better. Some prefer the SDA's and some prefer the Sonic Hologram. As with all things it is a matter of personal taste.