Turntable Speed Control

hochpt21

My TT has a wired power cord. Not a wall wart. So I believe that limits the number of units available to me.

Budget is small, so I have found a couple that I 'think' would work.

Music Hall makes a product that I would be able to plug into.
http://www.amazon.com/Music-Hall-Cruise-Control-2-0/dp/B004OAIUK4



Phoenix Engineering makes three units.
Roadrunner
Falcon
Eagle

If I understand correctly the Roadrunner by itself only measures the speed but is unable to adjust it. The Falcon can be added to the Roadrunner to adjust the speed. The Eagle is just a better version of the combination of RRunner and Falcon?

Am I close on that?

The Roadrunner on its own has the best price, but I don't think I would be able to adjust the speed...only view it?

The Music Hall seems like the one I would go for based on overall cost, but from what I understand...the Phoenix units have a physical magnet that installs on your platter and it tracks it real time. I'm not sure how the Music Hall unit tracks the speed at all.

Any thoughts and advice is appreciated.

Thanks,
Paul

Mikey081057

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-O963NdYyE

Dennis Gardner

I think that the combo of the two in the video shows how anal we can get about accuracy in our sound reproduction and without the ability to actually see what changes are happening you may always have doubt about the function. I guess that I am saying that I wish the Music Hall carried the digits out further than 1/10 to prove its ability.

Mikey081057

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

I think that the combo of the two in the video shows how anal we can get about accuracy in our sound reproduction and without the ability to actually see what changes are happening you may always have doubt about the function. I guess that I am saying that I wish the Music Hall carried the digits out further than 1/10 to prove its ability.

I wish I had that VPI Scout.... Nice TT

Dennis Gardner

That is a nice table, but even at its price point the control/accuracy of speed is left to additional gear. To think that we debate power cords and ICs to death but power supplies seem too esoteric and we trust the bean counters to provide accuracy.

Mikey081057

I am not sure I know the diff between 33.853 and 33.335 rpms...

Dennis Gardner

I will be looking for a speed control for a few of my tables Thorens/Ariston as they are much less accurate than I would like them to be.

hochpt21

So if I'm understanding correctly...

The Falcon and the Music Hall basically do the same thing.

The benefit of the Falcon is that it can be paired with the Roadrunner tachometer to verify its speed.

In the video he says that the Roadrunner is the more important unit. Why would it be when it can only measure and not assist with stabilizing the speed??

Dennis Gardner

I'm getting 32.65 RPM on my everyday belt drive at the moment. I could use some help.

vcwatkins

Not sure I've seen mention here of the RPM Turntable Speed Checker app for iPhone. Download and open app, place on tt, start tt. Coolest little app I've seen in a while, maybe ever.

Thought I'd mention just in case someone hasn't seen it.

Mikey081057

vcwatkins wrote: »

Not sure I've seen mention here of the RPM Turntable Speed Checker app for iPhone. Download and open app, place on tt, start tt. Coolest little app I've seen in a while, maybe ever.

Thought I'd mention just in case someone hasn't seen it.

Might want to tell folks to do it without a record on the tt and the tonearm in its holder.

Caution Coffee is hot ....Just sayin....

[Deleted User]

While being able to see and, if necessary, adjust the table's speed you might want to consider a device that shapes the AC waveform to a triangle wave as opposed to the standard sine wave output and offers speed adjust. Turntables with AC synchronous motors, which most have, will perform better if driven by the sharper attack of a triangle wave. I've used a VPI PLC for many years with great results. The more recent version is called VPI SDS here's a link to a review:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-vpi-industries-sds-ac-filter

You might be able to find the older series for less.

hochpt21

vcwatkins wrote: »

Not sure I've seen mention here of the RPM Turntable Speed Checker app for iPhone. Download and open app, place on tt, start tt. Coolest little app I've seen in a while, maybe ever.

Thought I'd mention just in case someone hasn't seen it.

Hey Craig...any reviews on how accurate and reliable that app is?

SCompRacer

I've been a beta tester for Phoenix Engineering since March of 2015. The differences between the units are the wattage, and the tach only reads speed and supplies that info to the Falcon/Eagle controller. IIRC the Falcon is like 5 watts (~$380), the Eagle is 15 watts (~$524). Lenco's have a 19 watt motor so he came out with a beta 25 watt Eagle, which I have. If you use a higher watt motor than what the controller is rated for, you'll smoke the unit. You can adjust voltage so you get the lowest vibrations while maintaining speed. Even Harry Weisfeld of VPI Industries said the Falcon is amazing and is a very real upgrade.





You don't have to use the tach (~$235), but if you do it is set and forget perfect speed from cold to warm. You can dial in proper speed with just the controller by itself but you need a way to measure speed while you adjust it. It allows you to adjust speed in very fine increments. I have always adjusted speed with needle in the groove. I have always liked the KAB speed checker cause it has large numbers and uses a battery operated strobe so you don't get any mains variation. But it's like $110.



Here is the diyaudio thread that explains the difference between his and other speed controllers. (Analog Devices Direct Digital Synthesis or DDS). IMO it is superior to some controllers out there that fetch more dollars. Post 183 he compares it to a $1600 Walker.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/252742-digital-turntable-tachometer-dds-based-psu.html

I bought my RoadRunner tach while I was building a manual speed controller. Once I got the beta 25 watt Eagle, all construction stopped on the manual controller. I will be able to build my PTP5 Lenco now as it requires a speed controller due to the fixed speed. Other PTP plates are available to allow easy manual adjustment of speed, but they are larger.

This is the Eagle power supply where you plug the turntable into. The wall wart is for the Tach. It connects to the controller with 1/8" phono type plugs, as does the tach.



I bought the RoadRunner through Amazon. IIRC Bob's Devices (SUT builder) sells Phoenix Engineering gear. At this time you have to email Bill Carlin to get the 25 watt Eagle.

hochpt21

Would it work to use the Falcon or a Music Hall as a stand alone, and dial the speed in via a speed checker wheel or perhaps the phone app mentioned above?

Once it's dialed in the unit should keep it steady?

Edit...I see your edit stating this is the case.

vcwatkins

hochpt21 wrote: »

vcwatkins wrote: »

Not sure I've seen mention here of the RPM Turntable Speed Checker app for iPhone. Download and open app, place on tt, start tt. Coolest little app I've seen in a while, maybe ever.

Thought I'd mention just in case someone hasn't seen it.

Hey Craig...any reviews on how accurate and reliable that app is?

Can't find where I read about it - it was Hoffman, DIY, or vinylengine, probably SH. I was reading up on RP6 mods and came across it. Someone wrote that it was measuring speed very close to the Feickert rig, which I would expect to be more accurate given there's not a weight (iphone) sitting asymmetrically on the platter.

I can't adjust my speed currently, so I just used it to see if my Rega was slightly fast like many are. Spins ~0.3 fast according to the RPM app.

hochpt21

vcwatkins wrote: »

hochpt21 wrote: »

vcwatkins wrote: »

Not sure I've seen mention here of the RPM Turntable Speed Checker app for iPhone. Download and open app, place on tt, start tt. Coolest little app I've seen in a while, maybe ever.

Thought I'd mention just in case someone hasn't seen it.

Hey Craig...any reviews on how accurate and reliable that app is?

Can't find where I read about it - it was Hoffman, DIY, or vinylengine, probably SH. I was reading up on RP6 mods and came across it. Someone wrote that it was measuring speed very close to the Feickert rig, which I would expect to be more accurate given there's not a weight (iphone) sitting asymmetrically on the platter.

I can't adjust my speed currently, so I just used it to see if my Rega was slightly fast like many are. Spins ~0.3 fast according to the RPM app.

Cool, I'll check it out.

Dennis Gardner

I centered my iPhone so that it was not asymmetric in nature and my table that was measuring 32.65 spinning offcenter now measures at 33.36 after 1 minute warmup and after a 5 minute warmup, it has settled in at 33.25. I see less need for a speed controller than I had previously thought. I can't hear any tone or pitch difference with less than .1 RPM. basically .25% off from target.

hochpt21

With the app mine measured at 33.2

However, I also discovered that I was getting the same whirring sound that I had before my motor died. Ugh.

Upon closer inspection there is a rubber band that the motor mount is suspended on. (a few people told me about this, but I didn't understand and thought it was inside the unit.)

That band must be wearing out, because the spindle that the belt spins on is leaning towards the platter and the belt is rubbing on the top of the track in the spindle.

That may be causing the .1 slower speed (if indeed the iPhone app is accurate)

Anyway, just ordered a new rubber band (damn shipping is more than the part)

Hopefully, this will finally take care of the issues with the TT!!