What does bi-amping do to the 707?

New24k

What does bi-amping do to the 707?

mantis

This is a good question but it has many different answers.
So when you Bi amp what this means is your using 2 amps to run one speaker. You remove the jumpers so you separate the Mid highs and the Low's.
In theory , this give you more control over the speaker Travel in Dampening. Each amp drives set of drivers and has a less of a job to do.
Many believe that using external crossovers with Beaming yields the best results in general but I have spoken to many speaker designer and they said their speakers are internally designed for this as you do not need to use external crossovers to yield the best results. Not to mention the crossover points are set due to design of the drivers behind them.
I for one don't feel this is a necessary thing to do with how good amps are today. Not to mention most of use don't listen at extreme high volumes to warranty all the extra head room and dampening needs.
I fully believe with a well made amp that is designed to handle to extreme demands of given speaker is the way to go.
I also take into account the price of bi amping vs getting a higher quality single amp. You gotta consider Interconnects and more speaker wire as well. When you add all this up do the gains outweigh the cost or does the cost outweigh the gains?
Then factor in a better quality amp, one set of better quality Interconnects and better quality speaker wire and what yields better results vs cost?
If you are considering using a receivers ability to bi amp, this has some benefits but not as much as one would think. The internal power supply is still being shared and in real world testing I have found little to no benefits and the extra cost of another run of speaker wire. I have actually heard no difference between this setup on many different systems. I chalk it up to the shared power supply internally.

So really there's a solid foundation of what to think about.

tonyb

I'm gathering he means bi amping with a receiver Dan.

F1nut

The Most Common Question About Biamping

The most common question I get is ...

"Do I need to disconnect the passive crossover in my speakers?"
The answer is ... Yes, otherwise you are not really biamping at all.

Generally speaking, the mid to high section needs to be retained since a typical biamp setup will only eliminate the bass to mid+high network. These sections are nearly always completely separate networks, although it may not seem like it when you first have a look at the board.

Equally important is the selection of the electronic crossover frequency. It must be the same as the original, within a few 10s of hertz. The only exception is where you might obtain information from the manufacturer of the speaker that allows the frequency to be modified. In general, I strongly suggest that you determine the original crossover frequency, and stay with it.

When the crossover is modified, make sure that you retain all the parts, along with the original connections. A drawing (including all component values) and photograph will be of great assistance when you want to restore the speakers to normal prior to selling them - it is unlikely that you will ever want to do this for your own use - not after you have enjoyed the benefits of biamping for any length of time.

Passive biamping (where two amplifiers are used in a bi-wiring connection) is, IMO, a waste of money. Although there may be some moderate sonic benefits, they are not worth the expense of the extra amplifier.

http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm

Nightfall

Gives you the warm fuzzies inside.

New24k

tonyb wrote: »

I'm gathering he means bi amping with a receiver Dan.

Correct!

tonyb

New24k wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

I'm gathering he means bi amping with a receiver Dan.

Correct!

Then your answer is don't waste your time.

New24k

tonyb wrote: »

New24k wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

I'm gathering he means bi amping with a receiver Dan.

Correct!

Then your answer is don't waste your time.

You're telling me it doesn't even provide a 10% benefit?

txcoastal1

New24k wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

New24k wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

I'm gathering he means bi amping with a receiver Dan.

Correct!

Then your answer is don't waste your time.

You're telling me it doesn't even provide a 10% benefit?

You are still pulling from the same source

New24k

txcoastal1 wrote: »

New24k wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

New24k wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

I'm gathering he means bi amping with a receiver Dan.

Correct!

Then your answer is don't waste your time.

You're telling me it doesn't even provide a 10% benefit?

You are still pulling from the same source

Right...

But if the AVR is rated at 120 Watts per channel - all 7 channels driven...

And instead of using a 7.2 set up, I use a 5.2 set up bi amping the 707s in front...

?

Easy Runnin

Most here will say don't waste your time. If your really curious, try it and then come back and share your results. I was wondering the same thing but since I have only one power supply, I figured it wasn't worth my effort.

txcoastal1

New24k wrote: »

txcoastal1 wrote: »

New24k wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

New24k wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

I'm gathering he means bi amping with a receiver Dan.

Correct!

Then your answer is don't waste your time.

You're telling me it doesn't even provide a 10% benefit?

You are still pulling from the same source

Right...

But if the AVR is rated at 120 Watts per channel - all 7 channels driven...
?

First double check your specs on the AVR. AVR specs are misconstrued.
If you want to try it, buy another set of cables

gce

I bi-amped my A7's with an AVR and I can tell you it does nothing. You would have the same results with your 707's. If you're looking for more power for your 707s get an external 2 channel Amp, if you can for your AVR.

Emlyn

On many newer receivers there is an internal setting that redirects the output from unused rear surround channels to the main speaker outputs. I do that in my home theater system because I have no surround speakers. It makes no difference that I can tell, but neither does it do any harm and the setting is available and costs nothing to change. I suspect the original poster is not referring to traditional bi-amplification which would require two sets of speaker cables and an external amplifier.

My usual advice on biamping with an external amplifier is that if something thinks it may be a good idea they should consider getting a better amplifier.

New24k

I guess I am confused...

If you are sending 120 Watts to the highs and the mids of the 707 - and sending another 120 Watts to just the lows...

Isn't that better than sending 120 Watts to all 3?

txcoastal1

What receiver are you using. That way we can break it down for you

New24k

txcoastal1 wrote: »

What receiver are you using. That way we can break it down for you

Cambridge CXR200

txcoastal1

https://www.youtube.com/embed/Fl3_AQBISYE?list=PLvfTZmvZzNmBVl-n5yyCDSM63njbNRB69

vmaxer

That should be 200 watts per channel?

Ah, just looked it is 120 with all channels driven at 8 ohms.

txcoastal1

@vmaxer
2channels driven not per channel

txcoastal1

https://www.youtube.com/embed/nokHMIDeVlM?list=PLvfTZmvZzNmBVl-n5yyCDSM63njbNRB69

vmaxer

txcoastal1 wrote: »

@vmaxer
2channels driven not per channel

Yep, I looked at the specs and corrected myself.

New24k

DSkip wrote: »

Emlyn wrote: »

On many newer receivers there is an internal setting that redirects the output from unused rear surround channels to the main speaker outputs. I do that in my home theater system because I have no surround speakers. It makes no difference that I can tell, but neither does it do any harm and the setting is available and costs nothing to change. I suspect the original poster is not referring to traditional bi-amplification which would require two sets of speaker cables and an external amplifier.

My usual advice on biamping with an external amplifier is that if something thinks it may be a good idea they should consider getting a better amplifier.

Technically, some harm can be done. By adding another pair of speaker outs to power, the power reserve of the receiver is now split among more channels, thus actually limiting the power even more to all amplified channels. Biamping is not going to net you anything on a receiver. The theory is nice, but the application falls short.

The AVR is a 7.2 channel.

Instead of using the surround back channels, I would bi amp the front two channels.

So, either way - all 7 channels would be used.

txcoastal1

Google dual mono amp vs stereo amp
Same concept applies to a multi output receiver

gce

New24k wrote: »

I guess I am confused...

If you are sending 120 Watts to the highs and the mids of the 707 - and sending another 120 Watts to just the lows...

Isn't that better than sending 120 Watts to all 3?

The best thing you could do is try it, see if it makes a difference. Just make sure you don't take the placebo pill.

New24k

Was I confusing bi-amping with bi-wiring?

gce

Bi-amping is using 2 amps 1 for your uppers and 1 for your lowers in your speaker. Bi-wiring is using 1 amp with 4 sets of wires 2 for uppers and 2 for lowers. Neither will work with an AVR!

Well I sorry, it will work but you wont hear a difference.

New24k

gce wrote: »

Neither will work with an AVR!

Well I sorry, it will work but you wont hear a difference.

Then why do upper-level AVRs give you this option?

txcoastal1

Because the market is driven by options, but it doesn't mean the option is any better

gce

Its a marketing strategy but like I said above you should try it for yourself. I did and that's how I know it did nothing to improve the sound.

tonyb

Many receivers also give you the option of media streaming....which most suck at that too.

Speakers thrive on current, which most can't do to any great extent. You do have a pretty beefy receiver by receiver standards though. Also keep in mind, the top portion of those speakers probably uses 20 watts, so the gain is minimal at best. Your basically robbing Peter to pay Paul.