What's with this new Friends and Family sale?

Mikey081057

Welcome to CP

A little reading that I googled for you


Loudspeaker Sensitivity: a measure of Sound Pressure Level (SPL) at a specified distance for a specified input signal. This is usually specified for a loudspeaker in a non-reverberant environment, in dB SPL and referenced to 1 meter on the reference axis with an input of 2.83 volts RMS, typically at one or more specified frequencies (often 300, 400, 500, 600Hz or the average of these). Sensitivity should always be accompanied by an impedance specification.

Loudspeaker Impedance: is the sum of DC resistance and complex AC reactance comprising inductance and capacitance, the value of which changes with frequency.

A 3 dB change in sound level is just nicely noticeable as a change in loudness. It requires 10dB power change to halve or double perceived loudness at mid/high frequencies and about 6dB at low frequencies.
Why is Loudspeaker Sensitivity Important?

This specification is important because it should give the consumer an accurate, easily compared measure of “how loud” a particular speaker will play when fed with a specific input. If sensitivity is measured in the same way, using the same methodology, then we can compare different speakers and have a good understanding of the relative amount of power they’ll need to achieve a certain output level. Their output is measured in dB SPL (Sound Pressure Level).

Note that the sensitivity measurement is only a relative measurement, done under tightly-controlled test conditions. The sensitivity figure does not necessarily relate directly to how loud a given speaker will play in a given room with a given input level; rather, sensitivity is a precise measurement that allows different speakers to be compared in an apples-to-apples manner. Their ultimate loudness capability in real-world situations depends on many factors, which we will explore later on.

Editorial Note from Andrew Jones

Whenever sensitivity is quoted, the nominal impedance must also be stated. This will prevent the manufacturer from cheating in cases where the lower impedance speaker is able to draw more current making the speaker appear more efficient. Of course the efficiency has NOT increased, but the sensitivity has, which is why it is important to include nominal impedance into the spec. Plus, all speakers are designed to be driven from voltage source amplifiers and have a flat frequency response when so driven. Therefore, sensitivity does give a direct indication of how much louder one speaker will sound on a direct comparison (disregarding the capability of the amplifier to drive a speaker that cheats on impedance).
“Efficiency” is NOT the same thing as “Sensitivity”

Speaker engineers use the term “sensitivity” because it is technically more precise definition of how loud a speaker will play when driven by an input signal of at a specified voltage level. “Efficiency” is usually a more colloquial term used by consumers, to informally describe how much power a speaker needs to achieve a desired loudness level: “Oh, your speakers a real power hogs. They’re not very efficient.” From a technical standpoint, “efficiency” is defined as the sound power output divided by the electrical power input—but that’s not how consumers use the word. So rather than try to turn laypeople into engineers, we’ll just concentrate on sensitivity.

The reason for quoting sensitivity rather than efficiency is that the true efficiency of a speaker varies wildly with frequency because of its impedance variation. The efficiency quote would be fairly meaningless, so loudspeaker engineers measure and refer to “sensitivity” instead.

How do we measure loudspeaker Impedance?

An impedance analyzer is used to measure the loudspeaker’s impedance as it changes with frequency. The lowest impedance is measured at DC, which is also known as the DC resistance. The IEC method of specifying nominal loudspeaker impedance is set such that minimum impedance must not fall below 80% of nominal, so for an 8 ohm speaker this would be 6.4 ohms minimum, and for 4 ohms would be 3.2 ohms.

Infinity P363

Infinity P363 8 Ohm Rated Speaker Failing IEC Specification

RBH 8300

RBH Sound SX-8300/R 4 Ohm Rated Speaker Passing IEC Specification

As you can see in the above impedance graphs, the Infinity speaker measured well below the 6.4 ohm minimum to be classified as an 8 ohm speaker by the IEC method. In fact, it's off by a great margin. This speaker purposely utilizes a 4 ohm tweeter to boost sensitivity which affects its overall impedance value. The RBH Sound speaker truly is a 4 ohm speaker as specified by the manufacturer. In fact, as you can see by the dotted red line, the impedance stays well above the minimum 3.2 ohm mark to be classified as such by IEC method.

Comparing the Sensitivity of Speakers with Different Impedances

If the amplifier is set to 2.83V, the 4 ohm speaker will draw 2 watts of power from the amplifier while an 8 ohm speaker draws 1 watt. (Power = Voltage2/resistance. So, 2.832 = 8. 8/8ohms = 1 watt.) This potentially gives the 4 ohm speaker a +3dB SPL advantage over the 8 ohm speaker for a given input level. This seems to be unfair. Therefore, some engineers and reviewers adjust the input voltage so that it equates to 1 watt at the impedance of the input frequency (or band of frequencies) of the speaker under test.

The other viewpoint is that in the real world, a speaker’s impedance is what it is, and the amplifier puts out its voltage as it does. Assuming the amp is muscular enough to drive low impedances, then if a speaker has a lower impedance, it will play louder for the same voltage input from the amp and this is information the consumer should have. In other words, the speaker’s sensitivity rating should not be “penalized” because it’s a 4-ohm instead of an 8-ohm speaker.

There is an international standard that defines sensitivity, and it specifies that sensitivity be referred to SPL @ 1m for 2.83V input. The actual measurement can be made at any distance and input level, but must be calculated back to 1m and 2.83V equivalent. A 4-ohm speaker will under these conditions appear to have an advantage, and many manufacturers take unfair advantage of this. This is why it is also required to quote nominal impedance, so that one can see that if the nominal impedance is low then the speaker will in fact be drawing more power from the amplifier and hence the amplifier will have to be able to deliver this. Not all manufacturers follow the industry standards in every instance of published specifications, so the consumer needs to pay close attention and read the fine print.

Andrew Jones adds:

Because a speaker is a voltage-driven device, we would be much better off to move away from amplifier power to amplifier voltage, specified in dB relative to 2.83 volts. At the same time, the minimum impedance of the load that the amplifier can maintain at this maximum voltage should be quoted. Using this, we could directly calculate how loud the speaker could go. An example will illustrate this: suppose we take a conventional 100W amp into an 8 ohm load. 100W is 28.3Vrms, which is +20dB relative to 2.83V. If the speaker is 90dB sensitivity, then max SPL is 90+20= 110dB. So, we quote the amp as a +20dB amp. That’s it...we now know how loud it will play with any sensitivity speaker. Easy!

Note: Of course this doesn't factor in loudspeaker compression or distortion which will vary in degree depending on the quality of drivers and crossover components of each particular speaker.

Now, what happens about impedance...well, we specify minimum impedance that the amplifier will drive at full output. If we quote 6.4 ohms, then we know if it will provide +20dB into an 8 ohm speaker, but not a four ohm speaker. If we quote 3.2 ohms, then it will drive both an 8 ohm and a 4 ohm speaker to full level.

vmaxer

Basically the higher the number the less power required.

I believe this is measured using one watt input, so one watt produces X output. X being the sensitivity number.

gardenboy

For about the same price I can get the Polk Tsx550T or Klipsch F-30. Any suggestions as to which would be better for general music listening?

tonyb

gardenboy wrote: »

For about the same price I can get the Polk Tsx550T or Klipsch F-30. Any suggestions as to which would be better for general music listening?

Hard to say without knowing your preferences in sound or associated gear. The Klipsch are going to be more forward sounding and a tad more bright on top.

jeremymarcinko

Stay away from from the Klipsch Synergy Series....I have heard almost every speaker in that lineup...and owned a couple too. They are okay for HT but do not create any sense of spaciousness and lack a lot of detail. They are loud energetic though, if that's your thing. The reference series klipsch are much better. I have not heard the tsx line as of yet.

gardenboy

Thx Jeremy, I think I'm going to get the Polk's that are BOGO this week....seems like a good deal for someone who wants to start listening to music again and get the kids to hear what real music used to sound like.

gardenboy

Little more help please..... I was leaning towards getting the BOGO Tsx550T for $500, but now after doing a little research I'm thinking it might be better to get the BOGO Tsx440T for $350 and putting the $150 difference towards a subwoofer. The 440 has three 6 1/2" mid drivers verses the 550 having two 5 1/4" so I should get better mid sound, correct? I can get a new PSW10 subwoofer for $109.....do you think this would adequately make up for loosing the two 8" woofers in the Tsx550T?... Or should I spend more and get a better subwoofer?

msg

talking about the 550's... brings back memories. never did get a chance to check those out. always wondered how those three models performed, and more specifically, how they compared to the RTi/A series speakers. just for the personal experience/knowledgebase.

jeremymarcinko

I'd have heard too many mixed reviews on the Tsx so I'm giving whafedale a shot. Almost went with Kef but they were so ugly. I'm pretty excited about the diamonds based on reviews. Should be a big upgrade from the fluance.

gardenboy

Thanks for everyone's opinions. FWIW I just placed my order for the TSX440T x2 for $350 from Polk, and get this........NEWEGG is selling the PSW505 for only $170 as of right now. Polk told me list price is $589 for this sub and couldn't come anywhere close to this price for some reason??? I know this setup is pretty entry level for all of you, but I have been listening to my Sony 7X140watt receiver on little JBL cube speakers probably rated at no more than 15 watts. Being very much the novice at this, I am sure I will have wiring questions on technical board in a couple weeks.

msg

congrats on your purchases, man.

fwiw, a little less than just two years ago, I had an even LESSER system than your Sony AVR/Cube speakers setup I was using Bose computer speakers coming out of the headphone jack of a little Onkyo stereo receiver I've had since the 90's. we all gotta start somewhere. I think your new start is better than mine was.

I'm interested to hear how this works out for you. maybe you can post up a thread with your impressions once you get all your stuff in. that's a pretty beefy "entry level" system you're pulling together there

gudnoyez

Go for the Psw 111's they pack a punch. I run dual 111s in my HT and for budget subs they sound great for HT and music.