Cartridge Recommendations

hochpt21

I currently have a Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood turntable.

The cartridge is a Grado Gold.

I do enjoy the Grado, but I am considering a different cart.

My budget is $200 give or take slightly.

MC or MM is fine.

Looking for a little more open air, and a great tracker. I think I have enough "lushness" with the Dared, the LS90's and the Parasound.

Some specs from the manual state...
Downforce range - 10-35mN
Effective tonearm lenght - 9"
Overhang - 18mm

Recommendation please?
Would a Denon DL 103 work?

Thanks,
Paul

Nightfall

You can get the 110 for under $200 if you're willing to wait for it to get to you all the way from Japan. Much better than paying upwards of $300 for them stateside.

Edit: forgot to add link

http://www.amazon.com/DENON-DL-110-High-Output-Moving-Cartridge/dp/B0007DA226/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1447376620&sr=8-2&keywords=denon+cartridge+dl-110

SCompRacer

Paul, what do you have for a phono pre amp? Does it have adjustable loading or is it fixed? How much gain it has and loading will determine what cartridge will work best.

hochpt21

SCompRacer wrote: »

Paul, what do you have for a phono pre amp? Does it have adjustable loading or is it fixed?

Currently I have a Cambridge Audio 640p. Don't think it has adjustable loading, but I have been looking for another PS Audio GCPH (which I regrettably sold a while back) that is super flexible.

So I am open to anything.

SCompRacer

The 640P MC input has a fixed 100 Ohm loading. MM is 47k Ohm.

MC gain is 55dB. So stay with HOMC cartridges. A .3mV LOMC cart will need lost of volume to amplify and get you into noise issues. With LOMC, it would be best to use a SUT (Step Up Transformer) to boost the gain. The Denon DL-110 would work at 100 Ohms suggested loading and 1.5mV output.

EDIT: You can also use HOMC cartridges with 47k Ohms loading on the MM side. You'd want to stay with 2.5mV or above in that case as MM side only has 44dB of gain IIRC.

hochpt21

Nightfall wrote: »

You can get the 110 for under $200 if you're willing to wait for it to get to you all the way from Japan. Much better than paying upwards of $300 for them stateside.

Edit: forgot to add link

http://www.amazon.com/DENON-DL-110-High-Output-Moving-Cartridge/dp/B0007DA226/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1447376620&sr=8-2&keywords=denon+cartridge+dl-110

Wow...is that legit?

Nightfall

I think so, check out the reviews

January 3, 2015
Verified Purchase
Quick shipping from Japan for only $8.. Great product, replaced my broken DL-110 perfectly. Much cheaper than buying in the USA

Shipping just might take a while

June 7, 2015
Verified Purchase
Worked perfect on my Technics SL1600 really opened up the sound. Just took foreever to get here. Had items I ordered from China arrive in half the time.

SCompRacer

If you get a LOMC and want to try a SUT, I have one available you can use.

If you're looking for a good deal on a Pro-Ject Phono Box DS+, let me know. I bought it new and used it for a few weeks after I got the ARC pre amp (no phono stage) and until I built the Bottlehead Eros.

Input impedance: 10, 100, 1000ohms or 47kohms.
Load capacity switchable: 47pF, 147pF, 267pF, 367pF.
Gain: MM or high output MC: 40, 45 dB. Low output MC: 60, 65 dB.

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-149604-pro-ject-phono-box-ds43.aspx?source=igodigital&

hochpt21

Any idea if the denons (103 or 110) would work well with my arm?

erniejade

Agree with a denon. For the $ the are outstanding. If you don't go the SUT route, take a look for a used jolida jd9. Again on the used market, that tube pre is hard to beat for the money.

Toolfan66

erniejade wrote: »

Agree with a denon. For the $ the are outstanding. If you don't go the SUT route, take a look for a used jolida jd9. Again on the used market, that tube pre is hard to beat for the money.

I love mine...

gmcman

I'm using the DL 103 Mk2 and love it also. I have it going through a Phonomena 2.

SCompRacer

Paul, IIRC your arm is 11 grams. That is on the low end of moderate compliance arms. Moderate compliance arms like moderate to low compliance cartridges.

Here, brush up using this page..

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/tonearmcartridge.html

hochpt21

My manual doesn't list the mass of my arm. And I can't find it online. Although I found other Pro-Ject arm mass listed between 8 and 11 grams.

This is what is listed for the Denon 110......"8 x 10-6 cm/dyne "

What does that mean?

SCompRacer

hochpt21 wrote: »

My manual doesn't list the mass of my arm. And I can't find it online. Although I found other Pro-Ject arm mass listed between 8 and 11 grams.

This is what is listed for the Denon 110......"8 x 10-6 cm/dyne "

What does that mean?

That is the cartridge dynamic compliance. I read that Japanese and US/European manufacturers measure it differently. 10Hz is the hopeful measurement number. There would also be a static compliance number, it would be higher measured at 0 Hz. The idea being using math to predict resonant frequency of arm/cartridge. Ideal is 8-12Hz. You can verify using a test record with low tones. Watch for the arm to twitch like a strung out crack addict....

In other words, you want the resonant frequency lower than anything the cartridge can pick up from the record. If your resonant frequency were 25 Hz and you played organ music that went down to 20, your cartridge/arm would jump out of the groove.

More reading..

http://www.theanalogdept.com/cartridge___arm_matching.htm

The DL-110 is a moderately low-compliance cartridge, good for moderate compliance arms. You can call Needle Doctor, they are helpful in giving you options and info.

Fairly sure you posted arm weight a couple years back.

Here..

http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/135774/grado-gold-cart

hochpt21

SCompRacer wrote: »

hochpt21 wrote: »

My manual doesn't list the mass of my arm. And I can't find it online. Although I found other Pro-Ject arm mass listed between 8 and 11 grams.

This is what is listed for the Denon 110......"8 x 10-6 cm/dyne "

What does that mean?

That is the cartridge dynamic compliance. I read that Japanese and US/European manufacturers measure it differently. 10Hz is the hopeful measurement number. There would also be a static compliance number, it would be higher measured at 0 Hz. The idea being using math to predict resonant frequency of arm/cartridge. Ideal is 8-12Hz. You can verify using a test record with low tones. Watch for the arm to twitch like a strung out crack addict....

In other words, you want the resonant frequency lower than anything the cartridge can pick up from the record. If your resonant frequency were 25 Hz and you played organ music that went down to 20, your cartridge/arm would jump out of the groove.

More reading..

http://www.theanalogdept.com/cartridge___arm_matching.htm

The DL-110 is a moderately low-compliance cartridge, good for moderate compliance arms. You can call Needle Doctor, they are helpful in giving you options and info.

Fairly sure you posted arm weight a couple years back.

Here..

http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/135774/grado-gold-cart

Wow, you have a great memory

I'll keep reading.

hochpt21

The Denon 103 is 16 HZ
The Denon 110 is 14 HZ

Those would not be good matches theoretically, correct?

Nightfall

I have an 11g arm and I'm going to be using the 110, it should be fine. 11g is border line low mass. You can also use a heavier or lighter headshell to get you closer to the number you need.

Dawgfish

If you want to try a lomc Denon with your setup, I would go with the DL-301 MK2. It will be a much better match for your arm.

Personally, if I were in your shoes I would keep your Grado Gold and upgrade to a Grado Signature 8 MZ stylus. It will be a big upgrade in detail and overall sound to the Gold stylus. It is not quite as warm as the Gold and has a much more detailed sound. It will fit right in your Gold body and can be had for $150 from The Needle Doctor or LP Gear. You can upgrade without having to re- align or install a new cartridge and have a spare stylus for backup. That's a win/win in my book.

hochpt21

Dawgfish wrote: »

If you want to try a lomc Denon with your setup, I would go with the DL-301 MK2. It will be a much better match for your arm.

Personally, if I were in your shoes I would keep your Grado Gold and upgrade to a Grado Signature 8 MZ stylus. It will be a big upgrade in detail and overall sound to the Gold stylus. It is not quite as warm as the Gold and has a much more detailed sound. It will fit right in your Gold body and can be had for $150 from The Needle Doctor or LP Gear. You can upgrade without having to re- align or install a new cartridge and have a spare stylus for backup. That's a win/win in my book.

That seems like a very interesting option. I went to my local audio store and the guy said they have it for $150 also. I try to buy from him when I can.

He had a grado black cart with a broken stylus and showed me how the stylus change is super easy. Just slides out and then snaps in.

If the sound signature is how you say it is, that really sounds like the best option, although I'll do a little more research.

Thanks @Dawgfish

If you have any more info to add to that Grado stylus upgrade option feel free to let me know

Thanks!

mhardy6647

oops, misread the previous post -- don't mind me.

Dawgfish

hochpt21 wrote: »

Dawgfish wrote: »

If you want to try a lomc Denon with your setup, I would go with the DL-301 MK2. It will be a much better match for your arm.

Personally, if I were in your shoes I would keep your Grado Gold and upgrade to a Grado Signature 8 MZ stylus. It will be a big upgrade in detail and overall sound to the Gold stylus. It is not quite as warm as the Gold and has a much more detailed sound. It will fit right in your Gold body and can be had for $150 from The Needle Doctor or LP Gear. You can upgrade without having to re- align or install a new cartridge and have a spare stylus for backup. That's a win/win in my book.

That seems like a very interesting option. I went to my local audio store and the guy said they have it for $150 also. I try to buy from him when I can.

He had a grado black cart with a broken stylus and showed me how the stylus change is super easy. Just slides out and then snaps in.

If the sound signature is how you say it is, that really sounds like the best option, although I'll do a little more research.

Thanks @Dawgfish

If you have any more info to add to that Grado stylus upgrade option feel free to let me know

Thanks!

No problem, you are most welcome! Actually you have other stylus options with the Grado signatue line. The Signature
MCZ stylus goes for $200, the Signature TLZ stylus goes for $300, and the totl XTZ stylus goes for $400. Each gets progressively more detailed while maintaining the beautiful Grado tone if setup correctly. The Signature MCZ, TLZ, and XTZ cart bodies had a lower internal impedance than the Prestige and 8MZ bodies. While all the stylii in the Signature line will fit the Prestige bodies, the MCZ, TLZ, and XTZ stylii sound better when loaded from 10,000 to 20,000 ohms instead of the standard 47,000 ohm loading that most moving magnet preamps use. The good news however is loading plugs can be easily and relatively inexpensively made to get the desired 10,000 to 20,000 ohm loading. http://daveyw.edsstuff.org/vinyl/loading/

hochpt21

Dawgfish wrote: »

hochpt21 wrote: »

Dawgfish wrote: »

If you want to try a lomc Denon with your setup, I would go with the DL-301 MK2. It will be a much better match for your arm.

Personally, if I were in your shoes I would keep your Grado Gold and upgrade to a Grado Signature 8 MZ stylus. It will be a big upgrade in detail and overall sound to the Gold stylus. It is not quite as warm as the Gold and has a much more detailed sound. It will fit right in your Gold body and can be had for $150 from The Needle Doctor or LP Gear. You can upgrade without having to re- align or install a new cartridge and have a spare stylus for backup. That's a win/win in my book.

That seems like a very interesting option. I went to my local audio store and the guy said they have it for $150 also. I try to buy from him when I can.

He had a grado black cart with a broken stylus and showed me how the stylus change is super easy. Just slides out and then snaps in.

If the sound signature is how you say it is, that really sounds like the best option, although I'll do a little more research.

Thanks @Dawgfish

If you have any more info to add to that Grado stylus upgrade option feel free to let me know

Thanks!

No problem, you are most welcome! Actually you have other stylus options with the Grado signatue line. The Signature
MCZ stylus goes for $200, the Signature TLZ stylus goes for $300, and the totl XTZ stylus goes for $400. Each gets progressively more detailed while maintaining the beautiful Grado tone if setup correctly. The Signature MCZ, TLZ, and XTZ cart bodies had a lower internal impedance than the Prestige and 8MZ bodies. While all the stylii in the Signature line will fit the Prestige bodies, the MCZ, TLZ, and XTZ stylii sound better when loaded from 10,000 to 20,000 ohms instead of the standard 47,000 ohm loading that most moving magnet preamps use. The good news however is loading plugs can be easily and relatively inexpensively made to get the desired 10,000 to 20,000 ohm loading. http://daveyw.edsstuff.org/vinyl/loading/

Wow. Thank you again for the info. I'll get my read on.

Dawgfish

You're most welcome hoochpt21! One thing I forgot to mention, the reason I recommend the 8MZ stylus is it will sound great using your Gold body with the standard 47,000 ohm loading. The MCZ, TLZ, and XTZ stylii will still play and sound good with a 47,000 ohm load also, but can be overly pronounced in the upper mids and highs if not loaded down in the 10,000 to 20,000 ohm range. Listen to the clips of the MCZ stylus being ran at different loading values in the link provided and you will get an idea of how it affects the sound. I just think it's really cool that you still have 4 more rungs up the ladder to experiment with your current cartridge body without having to swap and realign cartridges. My advice would be start with the 8MZ stylus since its a quick and easy swap. If you like what you hear, you can experiment with the other Signature Stylii as your budget and comfort with the loading plugs allow.