Bought a generator!

zingo

I bought a 6kw Craftsman generator for our house since we loose power about 5 times a year. We have a 1955 1500 sq/ft home with all LED lighting, new appliances, and all gas utilities. I measured our draw as the mains before the panel with all the lights on, the computer on, the fridge compressor on, the oven blower on, and the furnace blower on, and got 15A. Since per my calculations, can power my whole house with the generator, I don't seem to need a transfer switch with selective circuits. Has anyone used a meter base transfer switch or interlock switch/device? What is my best option since I have a new panel with master shut off?

Thanks!

zingo

BTW, a 6kw generator with 11Hp engine is surprising loud!

mhardy6647

One can get quiet(er) generators, but at a considerable premium in price.

I keep meaning to get one -- we had the house wired with a generator hookup when we had it built, but I just need to get one to hook to it.

Moose68Bash

We've had an 11.5KW, then a 12KW generator since we moved to New Hampshire in 1997.

Mice invading and eating the wiring and a lightning strike took out the first one, which we promptly replaced, because once you live through a four-five-days black out with one, you get spoiled.

@mhardy6647, if you install one, make sure it is "rodent proof." Mice will get into it if the cabinet is not well sealed, which also means that is more likely to be quiet.

txcoastal1

Dynamat

Moose68Bash

@txcoastal1,

Spoken like a true -- and well read -- CP member!

zingo

It's a "portable" generator, so doesn't have a cabinet; although an 11hp engine generator is not light or easy to move. Once I get something wired in so I can plug the generator into our house, I will keep the unit in our shed and roll it out whenever needed.

Wouldn't putting Dynamat on the engine reduce its cooling capacity since it's air cooled?

mhardy6647

We're going portable, too; our electrician recommends Honda. They're expensive but they seem to be widely respected.

The rodent point is well taken, either way (portable or permanently installed) :- )

Be sure to exercise your new generator occasionally, to make sure it'll run when you need it to.

daddyjt

We just had a four day stretch this past August, and I was eternally grateful for my Subaru 11hp 6kw generator. I built an 8g male-male plug, and back feed it through my 240v plug in my garage that my compressor plugs into. The important step is to MAKE SURE you kill your main breaker. If you don't, you can back-feed the lines outside your home, and possibly injure the guys working on restoring your power.

Make sure no one in the house tries to use an electric range, dryer, central air, or any other BIG draws. Ours ran the fridge, 2 freezers, tv, lights, and fans (It was HOT out).

We ran ours from about 6am till 11am, then kicked it back on around 2pm, and ran it till about 10pm. When the generator is not running, do not open your freezer or fridge, and it will stay cold for several hours.

Also, find a station in your area that sells non-ethanol premium gas, and run nothing but that in your generator (and all small engines).

WagnerRC

I can second the Honda recommendation. I have 2 and they run quiet and long.

gdb

We only run "throw-away" electronics during outages while using an old, portable 6,500 w generator. It's very dirty/fluctuating power I am told, and a killer of electronics. There are newer, voltage regulated types that supposedly produce "clean" current that's safe to power your good toys.

gmcman

I have spent some time with this so here's what I can say..

daddyjt wrote: »

I built an 8g male-male plug, and back feed it through my 240v plug in my garage that my compressor plugs into. The important step is to MAKE SURE you kill your main breaker. If you don't, you can back-feed the lines outside your home, and possibly injure the guys working on restoring your power. ).

For the OP, I don't recommend this, even though it can work if you know what you're doing...not saying the poster doesn't know but as a precaution I would advise against it. The reason is, your load for the whole generator at full power, is carried by the wires from that outlet back to the panel and they are not protected. The only protection is the breaker on the generator and it will deliver it's full amperage across those wires, this is how houses burn down from the wires cooking in the walls if overloaded.

zingo wrote: »

What is my best option since I have a new panel with master shut off?
Thanks!

Is this a generator-ready main panel with the top double pole dedicated to the generator?

I had a Subaru genny like daddyjt and loved it, very quiet for what it was. I now have a Honda and like others said it's also quiet and reliable. I kept the fire going and the air handler fan running on my 5KW subaru genny and saved my tail during one winter.

I changed my main panel out for a genny panel so I could power any circuit I wanted. This was a little more expensive but overall not too bad, I didn't want to deal with suicide cords or transfer switches only powering 6 or 8 or 12 circuits...I wanted full control of what circuits to use, this setup makes me feel better when the LOML needs to use it when I'm not home.

What you have to be aware of is what electric motors you have on the circuit and what their start up draw is. Refrigerators and air handler fans take a good deal of current to start, it's when they try to start at the same time is where the problems are...but doesn't happen all the time. I was using a 5KW genny before and this is where I ran into problems......motor start up amp draw.....this is what really works a generator, now I use a 11KW/13.2KW unit and can now start my well pump.....

Now another thing you really need to be conscious of with smaller generators, (any generator really) is what phase the load is on. A 240V circuit shares both phases, but 120 does not. Your main panel is setup so each breaker on one side, shares the other side of the panel directly under it, think of each side as an A, B, A, B, A ,B etc all the way down starting from the top. With regards to single-pole breakers, ie, 120V, say were talking the left side of the panel, the top breaker uses the left side, the next one under feeds from the right side...this is how a double pole breaker gets 240 because it pulls from both sides or "phases"

Your 6KW generator delivers 6KW evenly across both phases..you just can't load up one side.....this is important....you need to try to balance the load and stay within a reasonable range, like maybe 2200 on one side and 2800 when under full load this is not rule of thumb but just try to be aware, not 3KW on one side and 200 watts on the other. It will work but it's hard on the genny head...this is where watt meter boxes come in handy and attach to the side of the main panel.

Microwave ovens also require a lot of juice, especially on startup, they also like clean power so make sure you are getting at least 120-125V under light load from the generator.

Those briggs are noisy, I would strongly recommend getting some 4x4 sheets of plywood, lining with some thick pink fiberglass, and build a box around the generator with about 2' of room on each side, facing the muffler away from the box, then take one and make a lid but leaving at least 2' of air on each side, this should allow proper cooling. You can store the panels when not in use, and your neighbors will thank you, even you will be glad you did.

lightman1

Well said gmcman. And PLEASE use a transfer switch zingerdinger! I've seen the effects of back feed on a circuit. A liitle more money can ensure the safety of your home and the folks working on the other end.

Lightman rules!

Moose68Bash

lightman1 wrote: »

Well said gmcman. And PLEASE use a transfer switch zingerdinger! I've seen the effects of back feed on a circuit. A liitle more money can ensure the safety of your home and the folks working on the other end.

I second that advice.

zingo

I just chatted with my buddy who did our house panel for our remodel, and he said he'd install a proper transfer switch if I pay all the materials; I'll take it!

gmcman

zingo wrote: »

I just chatted with my buddy who did our house panel for our remodel, and he said he'd install a proper transfer switch if I pay all the materials; I'll take it!

Ask him if he will swap the main panel. It's labor intensive, but you get the best of all worlds. Add a inlet box and watt meters and you're set.

I would look at the Reliance 50A main panel..I'll link it in the am for you.

zingo

I just read through WA L&I documention on home generators, and they say panel lockout kits are legal if it's designed for the panel. That would be a cheap option if I could find the right hardware.

gmcman

I was going to use this kit, pretty slick but pricey albeit a cheap alternative. It's UL listed so that pulls a little fee also. You can use your existing panel and breakers. ...just need an inlet box.

Generator InterLock Kit Manual Transfer Switch
http://www.interlockkit.com/

ukcolin99

Good info, my experience is always Hurricane/T Storm related where supply of fuel becomes an issue as local gas stations are out/closed or experience long lines. Storing enough gas to run the generator can get hazardous/tedious. Anyone have a natural gas generator plumbed into the main?

GlennDog

Whilst the gen is sitting idle (waiting for service duty) what is the best way to keep fuel/petro from going bad . . .

Moose68Bash

ukcolin99 wrote: »

Good info, my experience is always Hurricane/T Storm related where supply of fuel becomes an issue as local gas stations are out/closed or experience long lines. Storing enough gas to run the generator can get hazardous/tedious. Anyone have a natural gas generator plumbed into the main?

My generator runs on LPG that we use for cooking and fireplace inserts (4), and it is connected to the same service line from a 550 gal buried tank.

We do not have natural gas service.

Nightfall

GlennDog wrote: »

Whilst the gen is sitting idle (waiting for service duty) what is the best way to keep fuel/petro from going bad . . .

One big factor is ethanol, which sucks the water out of the air causing it to not be good as long. Almost all gas from your average gas station has ethanol in it now. Ethanol is especially bad for small engines. See if anyone sells 100% pure gasoline in your area.

http://pure-gas.org/

An air tight container will help it last longer too. A red 5 gallon container with a cap that just pops off the end of the spout is not air tight.

If you manage to find some pure gasoline, your car would be better on it too. Better gas mileage and if your car has any rubber fuel lines they'd last longer. Ethanol dries and deteriorates rubber lines.

gdb

GlennDog wrote: »

Whilst the gen is sitting idle (waiting for service duty) what is the best way to keep fuel/petro from going bad . . .

Get the blue, marine grade "Stabil" gas stabilizer. It's good for long-term gas storage and combats the effects of ethanol. My Mercury outboard's manual says that it is required, year round. It's on the shelf in most Walmarts.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/16645043?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227019318098&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=42965822432&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=81457596752&veh=sem

zingo

ukcolin99 wrote: »

Good info, my experience is always Hurricane/T Storm related where supply of fuel becomes an issue as local gas stations are out/closed or experience long lines. Storing enough gas to run the generator can get hazardous/tedious. Anyone have a natural gas generator plumbed into the main?

A hard-piped natural gas generator with automatic transfer switch was my original plan since we already have all gas utilities, but you are talking at least $2k for the generator alone, it just didn't seem worth it right now.

gdb wrote: »

GlennDog wrote: »

Whilst the gen is sitting idle (waiting for service duty) what is the best way to keep fuel/petro from going bad . . .

Get the blue, marine grade "Stabil" gas stabilizer. It's good for long-term gas storage and combats the effects of ethanol. My Mercury outboard's manual says that it is required, year round. It's on the shelf in most Walmarts.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/16645043?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227019318098&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=42965822432&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=81457596752&veh=sem

I've always used the red Stabil in my small engines, and was planning on using it in my generator, but I will check out the blue stuff. Thanks!

zingo

I just replaced the air filter and purchased a 5gal gas can to feed it properly. I'm going to run it for an hour tomorrow and make sure it doesn't have any bugs the shorter test didn't reveal before I actually need it; part of the area did loose power yesterday!

jvc

portable porter cable with tecumseh ohv was the one i had.