Parasound 1200II

xjghost

As some of you know I bought the Parasound from Ender and when I got it the USPO had either dropped the box or let it bounce around in the back of a truck from IN to SC. Pictures for effect.....





Basically the face plate was bent towards the back on both ears. When I hooked it up to the 3.1's it hummed. When I unplugged the Emotiva MMC-1 the hum stopped. On my Onkyo Pre it is lower on one channel then the other. On the Carver pre playing the radio it seems ok but might have the lower volume issue. I was going to send it to Parasound but the tech I called was not as enthusiastic as the person who responded to my first inquiry about repair who told me to call in before I sent it in. I also emailed Big Sky and he was the one that wanted me to try the amp alone with the speakers. Said something about it eliminating a ground issue maybe? Anywho the point of this post. USPO should be avoided for shipping something of any value IMHO. They denied the claim based on two things. One I did the transaction as a friend on paypal. There was no item sale so they claim there is no proof I bought it from Dan. The second reason was insufficient packaging. HA! He had it packed in double boxes with padding for a computer between the two boxes and all around the amp! I personally was impressed with his packing. There are two points to my post. One is if you use the USPO and insure makes sure you have proof of a transaction and make sure you package your item as if it is going to bounce around loose in the back of a 18 wheeler..... Second is if you see a deal on a face plate please let me know. I have eBay set to search for Parasound 1200II but I don't know all the sources you guys do for this type of gear. I'm probably going to be sending it to Big Sky in the not too distant future for a look see. IF the repair is not that much I'll probably have him work his magic on it. Dan thanks for doing a great job with communication and packaging the amp for normal shipping. I'm convinced this thing was dropped or fell off a stack of boxes. Thanks! Glenn.

Joey_V

Those idiots....

That's a dropped piece.

Better make sure the internals look ok.

Sorry bro

How much were you hoping the claim was for?

motorhead43026

I had to ship my P5 PRE to Parasound for warranty repair. They told me " do not ship USPS"

pitdogg2

FedEx also used the post office for the "last mile" now also.... FYI. Why would it make any difference how you paid for an item? How the item paid for is irrelevant, what if your aunt sent a valuable antique where there is no payment is it not worth the value regardless?

I'd fight it.

msg

Damn. That sucks, man, really sorry to hear that.

+1 on a second attempt at reimbursement. I hope you're being as cordial as possible when dealing. And yeah, like PD said, whether there's a sale should be irrelevant - you paid a carrier to ship an item and insured against damage. It's damaged.

Did either of you guys take photos of the packing/unpacking phases? Unfortunately, I've had to learn this the hard way, myself.

Presuming you've exhausted all reimbursement options, once you get a better sense of the internals condition, I think you could get the faceplate straightened relatively easily with a bench vise and a couple of pieces of aluminum or steel stock. the idea would essentially be:

1. Remove the faceplate from the unit
2. Make sure there is no debris on either side of the faceplate or alum/steel stock
3. Wrap the alum/steel stock with a blue shop towel (the paper towel type)
4. Sandwich the faceplate and clamp and release a few times from various angles until satisfied.

Don't go crazy on the clamping, and check the shop towels periodically to make sure they're still intact. Presuming you have access to a bench vise.

xjghost

As for the transaction they said the transaction did not show where I bought this amp from him so therefor they had no basis that the $400 I paid him was for this amp. I'm fairly certain something is up inside the amp. It hums when I hook it up to my Emotiva and my 3.1's. I'll be sending it in to Big Sky for the repair. He wanted me to test it without the pre in order to determine if it was a grounding loop. I have no idea what he talking about though. I'll leave the face plate alone for now. IF I cannot find one I'll address it then. The vice idea was one thought. Another was getting a new one made by a machinist friend.

scubalab

I agree with pitdogg! The 'lack of a transaction' excuse is total BULL. What if I moved and shipped some of my own belongings? Do I have to have a proven transaction with myself?? Definitely fight it. They often just deny all claims with the hopes that most will not be taken to the next level and just dropped. You are PAYING for the insurance, whether it's built into the postage, or additional for higher values. What the item is WORTH and what amount I insure it for should be the ONLY things used to determine insurance claims. Also, the packaging excuse is pretty lame too. I'm sure it was packaged better than most manufacturers provide originally!

xjghost

If I get my money back they keep and destroy the amp. I'd rather chalk this up to lesson learned and never use them again and get it fixed/upgraded.

dromunds

Are you sure they keep and destroy the amp if you are only reimbursed for the damage, or would this be considered a total loss? I've had gear damaged in the past via shipment and was able to keep the gear with the damage and I was issued a check for the difference between its value as received and its fair market value, which can be evidenced by an arms length transaction such as you just did with Dan. As far as proof of sale, why wouldn't a bill of sale from Dan be sufficient? Who cares how you issued payment on Paypal? I don't know the appeal process at USPS but I would pursue an appeal. The packaging issue is a bogus non-starter.

xjghost

dromunds wrote: »

Are you sure they keep and destroy the amp if you are only reimbursed for the damage, or would this be considered a total loss? I've had gear damaged in the past via shipment and was able to keep the gear with the damage and I was issued a check for the difference between its value as received and its fair market value, which can be evidenced by an arms length transaction such as you just did with Dan. As far as proof of sale, why wouldn't a bill of sale from Dan be sufficient? Who cares how you issued payment on Paypal? I don't know the appeal process at USPS but I would pursue an appeal. The packaging issue is a bogus non-starter.

Keep yes. It's all or nothing with USPO insurance. I got this back from Rick and Big Sky:

"The hum originates through an external means like a ground loop. If more than one component uses a 3-wire AC power cord then hum can commonly occur. Eliminating 3-wire power cords on a preamp or other source components will often reduce or eliminate hum.

Front faceplate cannot be unbent as far as I know. They are made of aluminum and there is a real possibility of cracking if trying to bend back to original. Replacement front panels for the HCA-1200II are no longer available from Parasound as I just checked with them."

So is he saying use a two prong plug on my Pre?

msg

how much hum are we talking? I had/have ground loop due to lazy cable service installation on the opposite side of my house as my power, but I have to listen for it. it would go away when I would disconnect the coax from the wall. and it was only noticeable at idle if I found my ear next to the speaker.

so I'm wondering, what do you have connected to the MMC-1 that would have connectivity to a cable box? anything? it can even be cable box > tv > MMC-1. anything that sees contact connectivity to a cable box.

for the test with speakers only, I think Rick means just that - disconnect whatever inputs to the amp you have and listen for hum at the speakers. if you need to play something through it, I've read about people testing an amp with a 3.5mm stereo to RCA cable and a smartphone, but I think Rick's trying to rule out the input path to see if the issue's in the amp or something else.

when you say you unplug the MMC-1, do you mean you disconnect power, or are you disconnecting the RCA's to the amp?

yes, for testing you can try a "cheater" plug on your MMC-1; a two prong adapter.
supposed to take the multiple ground issue out of the picture, but but it didn't fix the problem in my case.

before you go pulling everything apart though, I'd try disconnecting coax at the wall first, if applicable, to see if the hum goes away. that would be the easiest first test, imho.

re: the bent faceplate, did you show Rick the photos of the bent ears?
I don't think it's that bad. personally I'd probably be giving that a shot before having a new one made. not really anything to lose at this point if you're keeping it. in fact, your machinist friend probably has tools to repair it. I'd only start any of this if you've completely exhausted your options for reimbursement.

Joey_V

Would they give you partial reimbursement?

xjghost

Joey_V wrote: »

Would they give you partial reimbursement?

No. I asked them about repair. They basically said we insure the package for value and we keep what is paid on.

msg wrote: »

how much hum are we talking? I had/have ground loop due to lazy cable service installation on the opposite side of my house as my power, but I have to listen for it. it would go away when I would disconnect the coax from the wall. and it was only noticeable at idle if I found my ear next to the speaker.

so I'm wondering, what do you have connected to the MMC-1 that would have connectivity to a cable box? anything? it can even be cable box > tv > MMC-1. anything that sees contact connectivity to a cable box.

for the test with speakers only, I think Rick means just that - disconnect whatever inputs to the amp you have and listen for hum at the speakers. if you need to play something through it, I've read about people testing an amp with a 3.5mm stereo to RCA cable and a smartphone, but I think Rick's trying to rule out the input path to see if the issue's in the amp or something else.

when you say you unplug the MMC-1, do you mean you disconnect power, or are you disconnecting the RCA's to the amp?

yes, for testing you can try a "cheater" plug on your MMC-1; a two prong adapter.
supposed to take the multiple ground issue out of the picture, but but it didn't fix the problem in my case.

before you go pulling everything apart though, I'd try disconnecting coax at the wall first, if applicable, to see if the hum goes away. that would be the easiest first test, imho.

re: the bent faceplate, did you show Rick the photos of the bent ears?
I don't think it's that bad. personally I'd probably be giving that a shot before having a new one made. not really anything to lose at this point if you're keeping it. in fact, your machinist friend probably has tools to repair it. I'd only start any of this if you've completely exhausted your options for reimbursement.

I unplugged the RCA's which killed the hum. So it is a ground hum. It's loud by the way. My cable goes via HDMI to a control box because the MMC only has 2 inputs then into the MMC. I'll try the adapter that Rick suggested. If you guys happen to see one of these broken for cheap let me know. I need a face plate! LOL!

msg

Can you try something else to rule out the inputs on the amp themselves?
Do you have any other equipment you could connect to the amp's inputs? I'm wondering whether it's related to the MMC, or possibly the amp's inputs, or even the interconnect cable. All things to rule out to narrow down the problem.

I don't have a clear picture of your setup. Have you ruled out your coax? The way to do this would be to have all your system components connected as you normally would, and disconnect only the coax at the wall. This will isolate your audio system. If you still have hum, then it's something in the audio system. If it goes away, then it's your coax.

The other puzzling thing is that the hum is loud. My experience with ground loop was that it was kind of quiet, but that doesn't mean anything for your situation, and my experience in mimimal. What you're describing, though, is reminding me of times in the past when I'd inadvertently disconnected a connector without powering down, and have it touch a case or my hand or something and I'd hear this loud hum.

When I was having my problem with ground loop hum, in my reading I came across others talking about ground loop isolators. Apparently installing one of these inline with your coax helps with ground loop hum - http://amzn.to/1jHhqPW
That is, if you can't fix the issue properly, which, to my understanding, involves having your cable service share the same ground as your home power. Not always practical. I haven't used one of these before, but if it turns out to be your coax cable causing the problem, this may help.

Upstatemax

My 1500A had a hum when I plugged it direct into the wall, I plugged it into my APC and it's gone. This was even on a dedicated 20A line.

Best I could tell, it was an interaction between the APC and the 1500A being plugged into the same outlet/line.

xjghost

msg wrote: »

Can you try something else to rule out the inputs on the amp themselves?
Do you have any other equipment you could connect to the amp's inputs? I'm wondering whether it's related to the MMC, or possibly the amp's inputs, or even the interconnect cable. All things to rule out to narrow down the problem.

I don't have a clear picture of your setup. Have you ruled out your coax? The way to do this would be to have all your system components connected as you normally would, and disconnect only the coax at the wall. This will isolate your audio system. If you still have hum, then it's something in the audio system. If it goes away, then it's your coax.

The other puzzling thing is that the hum is loud. My experience with ground loop was that it was kind of quiet, but that doesn't mean anything for your situation, and my experience in mimimal. What you're describing, though, is reminding me of times in the past when I'd inadvertently disconnected a connector without powering down, and have it touch a case or my hand or something and I'd hear this loud hum.

When I was having my problem with ground loop hum, in my reading I came across others talking about ground loop isolators. Apparently installing one of these inline with your coax helps with ground loop hum - http://amzn.to/1jHhqPW
That is, if you can't fix the issue properly, which, to my understanding, involves having your cable service share the same ground as your home power. Not always practical. I haven't used one of these before, but if it turns out to be your coax cable causing the problem, this may help.

You win. I unplugged the cable from the wall and the hum dropped considerably. It was still there but did go way down. I have the amp on my bedroom system now. Carver CT-24 with Monitor 10's. Sounds great playing the radio. I'm still pissed the USPO bent the **** out of the face plate but at least Big Sky helped me to find a use for the amp. So If anyone sees a 1200ii face plate let me know!