Need Turntable Help

Nightfall

Simple (maybe) problem. My TT is fully automatic - starting yesterday the needle is hitting the record during auto return. I have not changed anything at all nor has anything hit or damaged anything. Why is this happening and how can I raise the height of the tonearm during "cue up"?

Nightfall

I will pull it out of its cubby and check now.

Nightfall

The only "outside" adjustment is for the big weight on the end of the tonearm. There are, however, two very deep holes you can see in this picture to the right of the tonearm on the body of the TT. It's hard to see down in there but the top one has a white plastic "flat head" screw in it and the bottom one looks like a white plastic set screw that you'd turn by hand but I can't be sure that's what it is. I only get glimpses of them when shining a light down in there and trying to look at the same time. I'm going to see if I can find a manual for this TT and see what it says, if anything.

Nightfall

Just read the manual and it says nothing about the plastic screws in those holes.

Nightfall

I found another TINY screw. It's built into the plastic piece that picks the arm up and sets it down, I am fairly confident this is what I need?

Nightfall

Very cool, thank you @Keiko I think I got it. If it happens again I'm going to have to take the table somewhere for maintenance as it's probably dried up fluid and service needing to be done as opposed to a user setting.

Nightfall

Keiko wrote: »

Cool! Hope it helped.

This is why I prefer manual tables. Less moving parts and less chance of a malfunction. But I do like vintage Yammies.

Yeah... I have a mother ******* scratch on a brand new Primus LP I bought yesterday now. Granted it's not a deep scratch, you have to tilt the record just so under direct light to see it, but still.

MrBuhl

Nightfall wrote: »

Very cool, thank you @Keiko I think I got it. If it happens again I'm going to have to take the table somewhere for maintenance as it's probably dried up fluid and service needing to be done as opposed to a user setting.

This is exactly what happened with my Yamaha Nightfall - though mine is only auto return - the fluid had dried up. (BTW I whacked a perfect copy of Slowhand - feel your pain but nowhere near as hard to come by as a Primus!) Ugh. Took it in for service and not a pip since - perfecto!

Nightfall

Bumping this for some help again. I printed off a Baerwald, Loefgren, and Stevenson protractors from Vinyl Engine and was going to use them but I am running into an issue. The screws that hold the cartridge to the headshell on mine are not on top, they're on the underside! WTF? I thought maybe I could unscrew the screws and screw them back in from the top but no, they only come out so far before stopping. So how do I go about this and if the screws only come out so far how am I supposed to remove the cartridge when the time comes for replacement? I am also posting some pictures of some extra parts that came with it when I bought it, what are they? The black one kind of looks like the headshell I have on it now but without the handle or mounting points for the cartridge, what is this thing? The other piece with two holes in it doesn't even look like it belongs with the table. I hope my text explanation and these pictures are clear enough, otherwise ask away. Worst part of this is I have now loosened the screws and the cartridge is moved from its previous "good" position. I can't use the protractors I printed to realign it as the screws are facing the wrong direction.

TOP OF THE HEADSHELL



UNDERSIDE ANGLE ONE



UNDERSIDE ANGLE TWO



BOTTOM OF EXTRA PIECE THAT SORT OF LOOKS LIKE CURRENT HEADSHELL



TOP OF EXTRA PIECE THAT SORT OF LOOKS LIKE CURRENT HEADSHELL



EXTRA PIECE THAT LOOKS LIKE IT DOESN'T BELONG AT ALL

TNHNDYMAN

Look like you have a p-mount cartridge and adapter mounted on the silver headshell. If you bought say a Shure M97-xe online, you would mount on the black headshell and connect to the tonearm. P mount carts were not meant to be adjusted- that was the whole point, set it and leave it alone. I would just try to move the mounted cart back to at least a point where both side look 90 degrees or perpendicular to the headshell and tighten the screws back up.

Nightfall

Okay, I'm following now. How much does the headshell affect to the sound? I might just contact Patrick or Brian and buy a better one. I am probably going to be trading @dromunds my headphones for a Denon DL-110 cart next month, might as well give it a "real" headshell to sit under. Thanks for the knowledge guys! At least I'm gaining something out of **** around with what I shouldn't as well as stuff breaking.

Nightfall

I'm still trying to figure out why someone would jerry rig a p-mount cart to this. I'm guessing it was a junk cart the person that sold it to me had (Craigslist) and put it on just to sell the table. I bet the p-mount and adapter is what is causing some treble siblance/distortion and IGD on a few of the "louder" records I have. I hope I haven't permanently damaged any of my LP's. Might be best if I just stop listening to records until I get a new cart and headshell. I've already spent several hundred on records in the short time I've been into vinyl, I don't want to ruin anything. Especially when new vinyl is $20-30 and sometimes even $40 for a single album.

TNHNDYMAN

Actually Stanton made some nice sounding pmounts, so as far as that goes I don't think it's a bad cart. Yes the Denon 103 would be a huge upgrade though.

dromunds

I have several turntables and one has a P-mount cartridge, a Shure 110HE which sounded pretty darn good until I loaned it to a buddy and somehow the stylus suddenly got snapped off presumably by a significant other who didn't like his audio gear... Anyway, I've seen a universal adapter once but wouldn't have noticed this was a P-mount adapter if TNHNDYMAN had not picked up on it, you don't see them very often that's for sure. On my P-mount, you take out the side screw as depicted in the third photo and simply pull out the cart if you want to replace it. I would assume if the side screw was removed from Nightfall's unit the cart would pull right out. The advantage of the P-mount is that you don't have to adjust the cart, simply plug in and tighten the side screw and you're good to go, as TNHNDYMAN said. They are some good P-mount carts but the selection is far less than the conventional 1/2" mount carts. My P-mount TT is different from Nightfall's as it does not have a removable headshell so you just literally plug a different P-mount cart in and reinsert the side screw and its all set, except for setting the tracking force and anti-skate. Not sure what effect Nightfall's adapter has and how the whole thing was adjusted for overhang, etc. Not familiar at all with the Yamaha P-550. If its simply a removable headshell unit, I'd assume like Keiko indicated that you could simply upgrade the headshell unit (or get several so you could use different carts easily) and adjust the overhang using the plastic overhang piece that usually came with vintage tables or the protractors from Vinyl Engine, etc. I suppose the prior owner simply had a P-mount cart and adapter and it was cheaper/easier than purchasing a conventional cart? Who knows, but there is nothing per se wrong with a P-mount, not familiar with adapters, that's the rub it seems but like I said I have no personal experience with them. I suppose if done right they would work but I would attempt to move back to the conventional cart if possible with a good headshell like Keiko suggested. A discussion with several knowledgeable folks like Needle Doctor or similar would be advisable to suss it all out prior to making a move. I'd get the manual for TT as well and study all adjustments necessary when changing carts. This is an interesting thread, good learning experience.

Nightfall

Keiko wrote: »

Nightfall, here's a correct image of a 1/2 mount cartridge on a P-550 headshell.

http://s26.photobucket.com/user/graffias79/media/Asis.jpg.html

That guys screws go from the bottom up too. Seems like a bass ackwards headshell.

Keiko wrote: »

Here's another ADC headshell. Less expensive than needledoctor and looks like it includes a screw kit.

http://www.turntableneedles.com/Headshell-for-Straight-Tonearm_p_785.html

I've been doing some reading and it seems like ADC might be the one I should go with.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/opinions-on-yamaha-p-550.292613/

Also looks like the black Yamaha headshell I have is $70, maybe I should sell it?

http://www.turntableneedles.com/Yamaha-Headshell-PB062370_p_3914.html

dromunds

Yes, Keiko is correct. Keep it and put a backup cart on it.

Nightfall

So. Needle Doctor also recommended me the ADC after emailing them. It arrived today. I can't get it to seat in the tonearm. The female end looks visually identical to the other two headshells that I already have and the pins in the tonearm aren't bent or anything. I emailed Needle Doctor about the situation but thought I'd also turn to you guys for ideas. Again

Nightfall

Also, it isn't really an ADC headshell. Kind of disappointing. Just a generic look a like made in Taiwan.

Nightfall

Keiko wrote: »

Don't force anything. If it won't fit, send it back.

It would appear this is the only aftermarket headshell on their entire website for straight tonearms. Guess I'll be sticking with the Yamaha headshell. It doesn't seem like the Yamaha headshell lets you angle the cartridge inside the headshell at all though because of its design (The "handle" being separate from the rest of the cartridge - if you look at the above pictures you should see what I mean), only forward and back adjustment. Is that an issue? I don't see how you would be able to perfectly align the cartridge with a protractor without being able to angle the cartridge inside the headshell.

Nightfall

Also, I am confused because you have linked other pages in this thread where people say they used this ADC style headshell in their Yamaha straight tonearms.

Nightfall

Keiko wrote: »

What about this link I posted? From some of the comments I read, this is a direct replacement for your 550, and less expensive than needle doctor.

http://www.turntableneedles.com/Headshell-for-Straight-Tonearm_p_785.html

I will give that one a try next after I figure out everything with Needle Doctor.

Nightfall

Keiko wrote: »

Some headshells allow for azimuth adjustment. My Sumiko does, but not all do.

I'm not sure why the ND headshell isn't working for you. The cartridge you were using was rigged, has the tonearm been modified at all?

I don't think so. I have the rigged headshell/cartridge combo and then I have the stock Yamaha headshell that works with regular cartridges. Both fit fine. Is azimuth the term for angling the cartridge within the headshell? Just googled that - it is. So the stock Yamaha headshell does not allow for azimuth adjustment. Seems to me this headshell, then, would be a last resort. From what I have read azimuth is equally as important as VTA and other adjustments as far as sound quality.

Nightfall

Keiko wrote: »

You may have just gotten a defective one. Kinda hard to determine from across the pond.

Could you tell from a picture? I can take one after work tonight

TNHNDYMAN

Nightfall- Where are you located?

Nightfall

Evergreen, Colorado

TNHNDYMAN

Also did you remove the black p-mount adapter from the silver headshell before tying to install new cart? The screws need to be removed and the black adapter removed, then the new cartridge will site flush to the bottom of the silver headshell and you thread screws in from top probably going thru the headshell and into the new cart. If you look at the very first pic in this thread, you can see the small rectangle inside where the screws go is slightly askew....meaning even though the slots only allow adjustment forward and back, there is enough wiggle room to have one side more forward or back than the other giving you the slight angle you need to align the cartridge. Hope this helps, but I'm afraid I've made your confusion worse. I may have some extra headshells and possible another cart I could send you to try out.

Nightfall

I'm completely ditching the silver headshell/P mount adapter combo. I'll keep it stashed for an emergency. I'm now talking about the black two piece Yamaha headshell. (In the posts I've made today.)

Nightfall

Aside from no azimuth adjustment I don't think so but I've never run a cartridge on it yet so I can't be positive.

Nightfall

Keiko wrote: »

Nightfall wrote: »

Aside from no azimuth adjustment I don't think so but I've never run a cartridge on it yet so I can't be positive.

But it fits the tonearm without any problems?

Yes.

Nightfall

Why is there such a lack of headshell selection for straight tonearms while S/J arms have countless options?

Nightfall

Keiko wrote: »

Don't get too hung up on azimuth and cartridge alignment.

I am. Comprende on the advice.