Denon X4100 v Marantz SR7009 & AV7702

EndersShadow

Ok, its Battle Royale time. I'm looking at a new AVR purchase shortly and these are the three on my list.

The Denon is in the lead mainly due to pricepoint & features. But I can be swayed in a different direction if the logic is I am making a horrible, awful, no good, very bad decision and the added cost is worth it for features X,Y,Z.....

So the things I needed from a new AVR were the following:

EQ: XT32
More HDMI ports
3D & 4K compatible
Atmos, Heights & wide capable
Pre-outs (DUH)
2 or more subs

The features the Denon has that are an added bonus are:

Bluetooth & Network features
Controller app

So lets get this battle royal started.... Why should I NOT go with the Denon?

DollarDave

I went with the Denon X4100 for my theatre room and after I sent it off for repair, I bought a Pioneer SC-87. The Denon didn't make it back into the theatre. It was put in my bedroom when it came back. Seems simple, but the Denon doesn't have the ability to just play the main source as stereo in zone b without switching your main zone to stereo (and out of the Dolby format it is was in)... Also, the Pioneer has an "optimal setting" so that you don't have to jack around with finding the best format for what you are watching. It simply switches to the "right" one. My theatre room has some curves and swerves, so I figured I needed XT32, as well. Well, to my surprise, the Pioneer's MCACC Pro did a better job of setting the channel levels, EQ, and identified one rear channel that I had out-of-phase.

The apps for both the Denon and Pioneers are pretty sluggish and are comparable in their suckiness.

jeremymarcinko

Get the AV7702. It is currently on sale at Crutchfield. New for $1199. That' $800 bucks off. A4L is currently asking more than that for a refurb.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_642AV7702/Marantz-AV7702.html?tp=47509&awkw=85475975305&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=53443067785&awdv=c

EndersShadow

jeremymarcinko wrote: »

Get the AV7702. It is currently on sale at Crutchfield. New for $1199. That' $800 bucks off. A4L is currently asking more than that for a refurb.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_642AV7702/Marantz-AV7702.html?tp=47509&awkw=85475975305&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=53443067785&awdv=c

But why? The X4100 is only 800 which is quite a bit cheaper.....

DaveMuell wrote: »

I went with the Denon X4100 for my theatre room and after I sent it off for repair, I bought a Pioneer SC-87. The Denon didn't make it back into the theatre. It was put in my bedroom when it came back. Seems simple, but the Denon doesn't have the ability to just play the main source as stereo in zone b without switching your main zone to stereo (and out of the Dolby format it is was in)... Also, the Pioneer has an "optimal setting" so that you don't have to jack around with finding the best format for what you are watching. It simply switches to the "right" one. My theatre room has some curves and swerves, so I figured I needed XT32, as well. Well, to my surprise, the Pioneer's MCACC Pro did a better job of setting the channel levels, EQ, and identified one rear channel that I had out-of-phase.

The apps for both the Denon and Pioneers are pretty sluggish and are comparable in their suckiness.

Thanks Dave, but Pioneer is just a bit too pricey and I just know Audyssey better at this point, and trust it more with my subs.

Its good to know about the Zone 2 problems, but I don't know of a time I'd have both Zone 1 & 2 on the same source where stereo would matter.

If anything I'd have a set of outdoor speakers listening to the game which was being broadcast inside. Is that the scenario your talking about that would be an issue?

[Deleted User]

I looked long and hard at this.
Then I decided I will never use the Atmos
and bought a Denon 4520ci. 9 amps. Pretty good DACs.
Gets warm however even with the fronts off loaded...

jeremymarcinko wrote: »

Get the AV7702. It is currently on sale at Crutchfield. New for $1199. That' $800 bucks off. A4L is currently asking more than that for a refurb.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_642AV7702/Marantz-AV7702.html?tp=47509&awkw=85475975305&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=53443067785&awdv=c

EndersShadow

rednedtugent wrote: »

I looked long and hard at this.
Then I decided I will never use the Atmos
and bought a Denon 4520ci. 9 amps. Pretty good DACs.
Gets warm however even with the fronts off loaded...

jeremymarcinko wrote: »

Get the AV7702. It is currently on sale at Crutchfield. New for $1199. That' $800 bucks off. A4L is currently asking more than that for a refurb.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_642AV7702/Marantz-AV7702.html?tp=47509&awkw=85475975305&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=53443067785&awdv=c

Thanks Red.... ALL my speakers would be using my B&K 200.5 at least for now. I'd like to be able to connect 8 ohm heights or atmos speakers if I ever get there, but thats longer term.

pitdogg2

EndersShadow wrote: »

. Why should I NOT go with the Denon?

If you have never dealt with Denon CS then you are in for a TREAT and it is not TASTY then again both are going to be that same CS....afraid I can't be of anymore help here....carry on

EndersShadow

pitdogg2 wrote: »

EndersShadow wrote: »

. Why should I NOT go with the Denon?

If you have never dealt with Denon CS then you are in for a TREAT and it is not TASTY then again both are going to be that same CS....afraid I can't be of anymore help here....carry on

I'm sure they are just as fun to deal with as Onkyo's was (for my Integra) each of the three times I dealt with them

And they CANT be as bad as the Post Office's Customer service....

mrbiron

SR7009 because it's not my money!

xftman

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SC-85-9-2-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B00LIQ3HXC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442858115&sr=8-1&keywords=pioneer+sc85

Can this your 4th option?

EndersShadow

xftman wrote: »

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SC-85-9-2-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B00LIQ3HXC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442858115&sr=8-1&keywords=pioneer+sc85

Can this your 4th option?

What am I getting besides the fact its a Pioneer SC unit? Yes, its only a hundred bucks more, but what am I getting with it over the Denon? And keep in mind, my B&K amp is is going to be doing ALL the heavy lifting until I get more than the 5 channels I currently have....

And I'm still not really a fan of MCACC as I just dont know it that well and they also tweaked it to add sub processing, and I haven't seen a A/B of it v XT32.....

mikeyb128

The marantz and denon are not hdcp 2.2 compliant. So for 4K future proofing they are useless. I believe the pioneers will pass through 4K. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. But my sc65 I offloaded was 4K pass through. I have the 7702 and learned after I ordered it,it was only 2.0 compliant. I always liked Mcacc better, and it has pro now, that does eq subs. audyssey does a great job in my room with everything. I always felt pioneers eq was more thorough, tweakable, shows the correction curves, and you can save multiple eq settings. Audyssey I had to do about a dozen different mic positions and a crap ton of reading to get it right. Mcacc got everything correct and sounding great right off the bat.

DollarDave

EndersShadow wrote: »

Thanks Dave, but Pioneer is just a bit too pricey and I just know Audyssey better at this point, and trust it more with my subs.

Its good to know about the Zone 2 problems, but I don't know of a time I'd have both Zone 1 & 2 on the same source where stereo would matter.

If anything I'd have a set of outdoor speakers listening to the game which was being broadcast inside. Is that the scenario your talking about that would be an issue?

Step down to the SC-85 and save a couple of dollars and not sacrifice any significant features. If you think about spreading the additional investment over the useful life of the tool, you'll be glad you made the choice.

Yes, the outdoor speaker scenario is exactly the problem with the Denon.

I use a B&K 200.7 for my amplification, and the Pioneer just sounds warmer than the Denon with the same amp.

I can tell you, I will not buy another Denon after dealing with their customer service when I had a warranty issue. Only three of the warranty companies listed on their website for Texas (of 10) still do business for them. That says a couple of things to me. They have updated their website within the last month or so and eliminated some.

[Deleted User]

" And keep in mind, my B&K amp is is going to be doing ALL the heavy lifting until I get more than the 5 channels I currently have...."

I roasted a channel on my BK amp over the weekend cuz I'm stoopid. My advice is to
not try to rearrange everything at midnight...

jeremymarcinko

EndersShadow wrote: »

But why? The X4100 is only 800 which is quite a bit cheaper.....

Because it is undoubtedly the best sounding one of the bunch. You have ext. Amplification and can always add more. Also a separate pre is going to do a better job than an avr in regards to noise floor. It's a no brainer if the sale price is in the budget.

EndersShadow

mikeyb128 wrote: »

The marantz and denon are not hdcp 2.2 compliant

Right now ONLY the TOTL Denon and Marantz are going to get that upgrade..... Passthrough is what I should have said as honestly right now I'm at 1080p and totally happy.

jeremymarcinko wrote: »

EndersShadow wrote: »

But why? The X4100 is only 800 which is quite a bit cheaper.....

Because it is undoubtedly the best sounding one of the bunch. You have ext. Amplification and can always add more. Also a separate pre is going to do a better job than an avr in regards to noise floor. It's a no brainer if the sale price is in the budget.

I agree a seperate pre is a better route if you can do it, but I cant justify paying 1/3rd more for a lower noise floor....

That cost overrun would take away my opportunity to purchase and build a second sub for my setup, and that one fact alone I dont think is enough.

Plus being able to run height or atmos speakers off the AVR means one less purchase long term if I do go that route. I would probably go with the RTi line of in-walls as it wont handle 4 ohm LSi in walls that well if at all unless I double them up which would sound weird...

Mikey081057

The AV 7702 does support blutooth and does indeed have a nice app for ios or droid. I have it and use them.

Find better amps and you will have a system that will pin your ears back.

If you want a receiver than buy a receiver...usually AV receivers have **** watts/channel with only 2 channels driven where as separates can give you all channels driven. But if you want separates than the AV7702 will give you years of solid performance.

EndersShadow

Mikey081057 wrote: »

The AV 7702 does support blutooth and does indeed have a nice app for ios or droid. I have it and use them.

Find better amps and you will have a system that will pin your ears back.

If you want a receiver than buy a receiver...usually AV receivers have **** watts/channel with only 2 channels driven where as separates can give you all channels driven. But if you want separates than the AV7702 will give you years of solid performance.

I'm aware... I'm saying if I use the AVR for anything it would be for surround channels like height and wides where a 8 ohm speaker would suffice.

I have a B&K 200.5 amp for my front 5 (which are the only speakers I have right now anyway) and that wouldn't change.

[Deleted User]

I missed the part about the B&K. Sounds like a pretty slick setup to me!
You looking to add speakers then I take it?

EndersShadow

rednedtugent wrote: »

I missed the part about the B&K. Sounds like a pretty slick setup to me!
You looking to add speakers then I take it?

In the future I want the option of adding heights and atmos if I can get the request through the finance committee

EndersShadow

Yeah I did see those skip. They are outside what I've got.

Originally I was thinking I'd have 1600 but I don't want to keep putting it off till sometime toward the end of next year so 800 is around all I've got TBH..