Some tube sellers just don't get it...........

heiney9

/RANT/

I realize not everyone who sells items is an expert, nor do they need to be to sell said items. But it seems some tube sellers really don't understand what they are selling and then when you ask nicely for some specific information, they give either no response or a flippant response.

I wish they would understand that by answering some basic questions they might even realize more money for their sale. I also realize I am free to not deal with said sellers and I usually don't, but it just seem to me they are so ignorant when the information is so simple to provide.

Below is just one of various interactions.

The guys posts about 6-8 pics of the tubes, all from about the same angle and the same side of the tube. Duh, if you're going to include that many pics, it's a waste for them to be pretty much the same.

Here is his description:

TESTED MATCHED VINTAGE PAIR ENGLAND 12AU7 LONG PLATE SAME DATE - 1957 - HICKOK TV-7D-U TUBE TESTER MIN - 56 TEST - 98-100 96-98 ...........NICE..........

So this is what I inquire:

What are the date codes? How do you know it's 1957? Are the date codes etched towards the bottom of the tube? Or printed on the tube? There are no pictures showing any production/date codes. That's why I ask.

Thanks for your time

He replies:

SIR ON THE TUBE THANKS.

what the f.....he doesn't answer the number one question!!!

So I reply:

Would it be too much to ask that you provide those so I know the manufacturer origin? Otherwise I can only guess, and I like to know exactly what I am buying. There are various 12au7's manufactured in England and they are all different. Thank You

Why not just give me the codes? Why is it so difficult.

/rant/

This kind of circular communication goes on all the time when talking with tube sellers. I am not just going to take someone's word they know what they are talking about, without proof. I've assumed things before and been disappointed when the assumption was wrong.

Thanks for listening.

H9

heiney9

The pics don't show the getter type either, don't show the area's where date markings could be.

These could be Japanese made tubes using Mullard tooling. These could be Fivre made tubes from Italy marked as Made In England as many are since Fivre is the Italian arm of Philips Mullard. Or they could be Brimar tubes, made in England but completely different sounding than Mullard tubes. Or they could just be another long plate tube from America, stamped Made In England since that's where they were being used.

So if he would provide the date/manufacturer markings then I could decide how much I wanted to pay. And another very real concern for me is how many of this type do I already own?

LOL

H9

Nightfall

His reply, to me, was saying it was printed "ON THE TUBES, SIR. THANKS".

MrBuhl

You guys have forgotten more than I know about tubes! I wish there was a good primer on finding/reading date codes, manufacturer codes, etc.

I don't even know what are good questions to ask yet! LOL

Polkie2009

Sounds frustrating having to deal with this guy. It sounds like he's not wanting to show the info in his pictures because that would expose the truth that the tubes he's selling aren't exactly the valuable ones he's passing them off as. His short reply and lack of more info also makes me question his sincerity.

heiney9

Mr. Buhl, I hear you. But I have spent the past 6-7 years basically scouring the net and other tube blogs, websites, etc and gleaned the info I know. There isn't one place that gives the information and unfortunately there are lots of exceptions and deviations from the rules. Because of cross selling stock and supply/demand of vacuum tubes back in the day.

You can't always judge a tube by it's label and printing. Labels varied and were random. Many, many manufacturers of electronics sourced tubes from all over based on supply.

In fact one also needs to be versed in visual cues of tube structure to really know for sure. Usually the risk is low, but when someone is asking $400/pr for early Mullard or Amperex long plates, one needs to everything they can before spending $$$.

Lots and lots of misinformation from tube sellers, because they make assumptions or pick up on a key selling point they've seen before or the just misidentify because of hasty research. Very few are out to screw you, some are of course, but most are just ignorant about what they are selling.

H9

heiney9

Polkie2009 wrote: »

Sounds frustrating having to deal with this guy. It sounds like he's not wanting to show the info in his pictures because that would expose the truth that the tubes he's selling aren't exactly the valuable ones he's passing them off as. His short reply and lack of more info also makes me question his sincerity.

I think he is upset because I am not taking him at his word they are from 1957. I can also tell based on the mica inserts they are Brimar's or Fivre made tubes, so the England part is sort of correct (Fivre usually say Made in Italy). Except Brimar and Fivre tubes sound different so I'd like to know which they are. Only the tube codes will give that answer.

But really, just provide the info. If he can't or won't then I doubt they are 1957. Plus all the Brimar long plates I have are from 1960-61. 1957 Brimar gray long plates aren't very common. Mid 60's Brimar went to a short plate.

heiney9

I have had people finally confess the reason they said a tube was a certain date was because it was the year the electronics it came out of was manufactured. I don't think that's a good way to date a tube since in that particular case 49 years had passed. It's possible that was an original tube, but it's not factual. It turned out the tube was newer than the electronic year of manufacture.

H9

MrBuhl

heiney9 wrote: »

I have had people finally confess the reason they said a tube was a certain date was because it was the year the electronics it came out of was manufactured.
H9

LOL - that there is funny / sad stuff!! Unbelievable what some folks will pass as gospel during a sale!

H9 - I've been hitting some of the usual suspect sites (including here) for thoughts on good tubes in a particular brand/style. Brent Jesse, Joe's Tube Lore, any particularly good starter resources beyond those you might recommend?

pitdogg2

MrBuhl wrote: »

You guys have forgotten more than I know about tubes! I wish there was a good primer on finding/reading date codes, manufacturer codes, etc.

I don't even know what are good questions to ask yet! LOL

this may help Brent Jesse gave it to me once upon a time

http://www.tubemuseum.org/SearchResults.asp?Cat=30

heiney9

Audio Asylum (Tube Asylum) is a good resource. Although I use them for corroboration because sometimes guys are mistaken. But their archive is helpful in helping identify a tube and reviews.

TubeMaze.info is a great source for reviews, not so much identification.

pitdogg2

heiney9 wrote: »

I have had people finally confess the reason they said a tube was a certain date was because it was the year the electronics it came out of was manufactured. I don't think that's a good way to date a tube since in that particular case 49 years had passed. It's possible that was an original tube, but it's not factual. It turned out the tube was newer than the electronic year of manufacture.

H9

yet many people do not remember that most dept. type stores had that big honkin machine at the entrance/exit that was to test all the tubes. I remember as a kid having to stand there while dad said kewl words about the price to replace a TV tube

heiney9

Yep, basically just said pass/fail. I think there was a recent thread where Mhardy was waxing nostalgia about those machines and how they fetch a pretty penny today if still complete.

I have to admit the nostalgia of the tube lore and it's place in history is fascinating to me and part of the reason I collect them. Of course the gear they are used in sounds fantastic too.

These tubes in their day were nothing more than a purposeful part for radios, TV's, multimeters, tube testers and the like. No one back then was hunting for a long plate early Mullard or an original Mullard metal base 5AR4 rectifier. You just wanted your junk to work, more or less. Sure the advertising of the day touted certain brands as more reliable, etc whether they were or were not.

It wasn't until later on that audiophiles started noticing the differences in how certain tubes performed and then hunted them to extinction.

IMHO, many of the Holy Grail tubes are completely over the top in what people are asking. Really, a pair of used early 50's welded plate Mullards for $500, or Telefunken ECC803S for $1000/pr.

Sure there are differences, but you can keep your $500 or $1000 tubes, because the differences are not worth the cost to me personally.

H9

heiney9

Ok so I got another message from him. Basically he's not sure. I pressed him for specifics and he can't provide them and then states he's unsure. But he goes on to say "they are great tubes and I will love them".

He is somewhat local and he has a 100% feedback rating and has been on Ebay a long time. I'm sure his intent wasn't malicious, but if you can't somehow back up what you are stating, then you shouldn't post it as fact.

H9

motorhead43026

I remember going into stores and using the pass/fail tube testers. That seems like a lifetime ago.

Polkie2009

All of the 7 11"s and Utotem's used to have the big tube testers in them . Of course all the electronic stores had them too! Transistors and solid state technology was so new , everybody still had tv sets, radios, record players, etc... using tubes.

MrBuhl

Thanks H9!

Brandtacious

heiney9 wrote: »

/RANT/

I realize not everyone who sells items is an expert, nor do they need to be to sell said items. But it seems some tube sellers really don't understand what they are selling and then when you ask nicely for some specific information, they give either no response or a flippant response.

I wish they would understand that by answering some basic questions they might even realize more money for their sale. I also realize I am free to not deal with said sellers and I usually don't, but it just seem to me they are so ignorant when the information is so simple to provide.

Below is just one of various interactions.

The guys posts about 6-8 pics of the tubes, all from about the same angle and the same side of the tube. Duh, if you're going to include that many pics, it's a waste for them to be pretty much the same.

Here is his description:

TESTED MATCHED VINTAGE PAIR ENGLAND 12AU7 LONG PLATE SAME DATE - 1957 - HICKOK TV-7D-U TUBE TESTER MIN - 56 TEST - 98-100 96-98 ...........NICE..........

So this is what I inquire:

What are the date codes? How do you know it's 1957? Are the date codes etched towards the bottom of the tube? Or printed on the tube? There are no pictures showing any production/date codes. That's why I ask.

Thanks for your time

He replies:

SIR ON THE TUBE THANKS.

what the f.....he doesn't answer the number one question!!!

So I reply:

Would it be too much to ask that you provide those so I know the manufacturer origin? Otherwise I can only guess, and I like to know exactly what I am buying. There are various 12au7's manufactured in England and they are all different. Thank You

Why not just give me the codes? Why is it so difficult.

/rant/

This kind of circular communication goes on all the time when talking with tube sellers. I am not just going to take someone's word they know what they are talking about, without proof. I've assumed things before and been disappointed when the assumption was wrong.

Thanks for listening.

H9

I bought those tubes last night. I also asked the seller how he determined the tubes were 1957, and got a very similar response - something like "I think I saw it on the tubes."
When they arrive, I'll share what the codes are...
I bought them because they looked great, and the seller posted great test results. The 1950s and early 60s tubes sound great in my SET/horn system, so for $52 plus modest shipping, I felt it was worth the gamble... A couple of weeks ago I picked up a great pair of 1956 Mullard ECC83 with the mC1 codes on buy it now for $30 from a seller who apparently also wasn't familiar with tube coding...
Anyway, I wonder how many folks asked this seller the same question you and I did...?
Brandt

GlennDog

MrBuhl wrote: »

H9 - I've been hitting some of the usual suspect sites (including here) for thoughts on good tubes in a particular brand/style. Brent Jesse, Joe's Tube Lore, any particularly good starter resources beyond those you might recommend?

I'm a newbie, too and have had excellent customer service from Andy at Vintage Tube Services. He does not ask top dollar, but he is retail. I think with him, you're gonna pay for his expertise and knowledge And Not Be Disappointed

http://vintagetubeservices.com/contact-andy/

No affil

MrBuhl,
Andy may be your Huckleberry . . .
IMHO, this is someone who can really help you select a tube that'll make your system shine. I've purchased several pair from him in the last couple of years.
Call him, don't email

If I had H9s experience, I'd be on the hunt for the underpriced pieces, too. I just don't know enough. So I leave it to the pros I can trust

@H9 If you have any (good quality) spare 6SN7s for my pre or 12ax7 or 12ax7 for my monos, maybe we can reach a deal? Never hurts to ask . . .

Good luck with your hunt!

G

Brandtacious

Got the tubes today. The code is rubbed off of one, and the code on the other one is "_(rubbed off)L2/1571" which indicates to me that the tube with the code is from December, 1962... Oh well, overpaid on this pair by $30 - $40...

heiney9

Brandtacious wrote: »

Got the tubes today. The code is rubbed off of one, and the code on the other one is "_(rubbed off)L2/1571" which indicates to me that the tube with the code is from December, 1962... Oh well, overpaid on this pair by $30 - $40...

Yep, that's a Brimar made tube. Just as I thought he misinterpreted the manufacturing code and was guessing. That's why I always ask these days. I figured it was either Brimar or Fivre because if you look at the micas, they have 2 large holes and no holes in the side plate.

The L2/1571 is a Brimar code, the "L2 should have another number in front. The "2" indicates 1962; the "1571" indicates it's a 12AU7/ECC82.

Nice tubes, long plates, not for sale very often. You did ok price wise.

H9

heiney9

GlennDog wrote: »

I'm a newbie, too and have had excellent customer service from Andy at Vintage Tube Services. He does not ask top dollar, but he is retail. I think with him, you're gonna pay for his expertise and knowledge And Not Be Disappointed

http://vintagetubeservices.com/contact-andy/

No affil

MrBuhl,
Andy may be your Huckleberry . . .
IMHO, this is someone who can really help you select a tube that'll make your system shine. I've purchased several pair from him in the last couple of years.
Call him, don't email

If I had H9s experience, I'd be on the hunt for the underpriced pieces, too. I just don't know enough. So I leave it to the pros I can trust

@H9 If you have any (good quality) spare 6SN7s for my pre or 12ax7 or 12ax7 for my monos, maybe we can reach a deal? Never hurts to ask . . .

Good luck with your hunt!

G

I don't use 6SN7's so I don't have any. I can look for some 12AX7's, how many do you need?

H9

msg

I can understand first hand the frustration on this, especially with something where such "subtleties" define the quality.

This type of lackadaisical (read: lazy, distractable) behavior extends to other sellers, and even to other areas outside of buying stuff, like to customer service and the like.

It's like you're hassling them by being someone who knows what he wants and is particular and trying to be proactive to avoid the hassle of returns due to miscommunication. It's pretty stupid, imho. Too cool types. It's irksome that people like this can somehow come into rarities they can't appreciate. Unfortunately, with rare items, the options are to deal or move on. Agree though, it's maddening at times.

heiney9

It is self serving in a way for us to expect answers to basic questions. We as buyers always have the right to move onto the next seller. But if I suspect that seller has what I want, I don't think it's too much to ask to have some basic questions about the items he is selling answered in a timely, intelligent manner.

I also hate the sellers who state in the ad, "feel free to ask any questions", and then when you do, they don't even bother to respond. I also like more than a single, fuzzy, distant photo of the tubes.

There is that one guy on Ebay that has a few female models hold the tubes up in the photo. Like I'm going to buy your completely unknown tube because a model is holding it in the photo.

Several close shots from all sides. That way I can see the "subtleties" I'm looking for.

I also love the seller who adds 3-4 photos, all from the same angle showing the same thing............sheesh.

H9

Brandtacious

Yep - regarding the guy who has the "models" holding the tubes, try asking him a question. Several years ago, before he used "models," I asked him about how closely a pair of tubes he described as matched actually were, and you'd have thought I asked him if his wife was available for an overnight...
In terms of the Brimars, I gambled... Sometimes I do good like that with tubes, and sometimes not. If I don't like how these sound in one of my systems I'll give them to a friend for close to what I paid...
It should be noted that he offered me a refund on the tubes if I returned them - seemed like a nice enough guy, I hope if he has more nice tubes that he learns to take pictures of the codes, or at least describe what the codes are in his auctions...

GlennDog

heiney9 wrote: »

I don't use 6SN7's so I don't have any. I can look for some 12AX7's, how many do you need?

H9

Hey H9,
Thanks in advance . , . One input for each mono, so 2 total
I'm presently using RCA 7058/12ax7 which was a huge improvement over the JJs that came with the unit

Glenn