Dongle in your car? Think twice!!!

F1nut

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/08/13/hackers-hijack-car-insurance-gadget-hit-corvette-brakes/

I would never have one of these installed, talk about big brother.

jeremymarcinko

That is crazy. Damn technology is ruining our lives...it masquerades as being necessary for safety, but ultimately is only about making money by limiting our freedom and quality of life.

tonyb

F1nut wrote: »

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/08/13/hackers-hijack-car-insurance-gadget-hit-corvette-brakes/

I would never have one of these installed, talk about big brother.

I wouldn't either Jess, but big companies use these sort of things to manage costs. If other costs of doing business weren't so high, they wouldn't be looking at stuff like this.

OR.....if we had the will to address the real problems making the cost of doing business going sky high.

pitdogg2

I call horse hockey Tony I work for an insurance co. In my 35yrs of driving I have never ever had any claims yet my insurance goes up every year. So by NEVER EVER having a claim you'd think that maybe just maybe they would understand I'm a safe bet to get better rates. Last year I was looking at getting a new car that would require full coverage. My ins co wanted $300.00 a month for full coverage just BECAUSE I had never had FC ins. so lets see car payment 650.00 a month + ins 950.00 nope not me could never afford to have a home payment also. I have not had a ticket in 20yrs.

tonyb

I wasn't talking specifically the insurance business, business in general.

But if you'd like I can talk insurance.

Think about what insurance really is..... a sharing of the misery isn't it ? All insurance is like that....life/home/auto/healthcare, they all pool money, assess the risk, and then charge you. Isn't that why rates vary depending on geographical area's ?

You may get some breaks along the way for not using insurance, but the base rates are always your portion of the misery.

That sharing of the misery philosophy works for those on the lower ends of the totem pole, but costs those on the mid to higher ends. Which demographic of that totem pole is increasing by the day ?

daddyjt

That's a great analogy, Tony. I've always thought of insurance companies as a bookie or a casino.

Inagine you're playing roulette - You're betting $100 on your number over and over. The casino takes your $100, knowing that eventually, you're going to hit your number, and they're going to have to pay out at 36:1, or $3,600. In the casino, the payout or odds, are adjusted for the casino to make their profit. In insurance, the payment or "bet" is adjusted for the operating margin.

There is one word to explain why all insurance rates are so high - lawyers. Untill we adress that, rates will continue to climb....

pitdogg2

daddyjt wrote: »

There is one word to explain why all insurance rates are so high - lawyers. Until we address that, rates will continue to climb....

agreed

tonyb

It's a little more complicated than just lawyers.....but yeah, certainly part of the problem. Expect something different when lawyers are the ones making the laws ?

motorhead43026

pitdogg2 wrote: »

daddyjt wrote: »

There is one word to explain why all insurance rates are so high - lawyers. Until we address that, rates will continue to climb....

agreed

Don't forget mother nature. We all share in that cost when things go wrong.

teekay0007

tonyb wrote: »

I wasn't talking specifically the insurance business, business in general.

But if you'd like I can talk insurance.

Now, does this surprise anybody? You should have a radio show Tony...if you don't already!

cnh

teekay0007 wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

I wasn't talking specifically the insurance business, business in general.

But if you'd like I can talk insurance.

Now, does this surprise anybody? You should have a radio show Tony...if you don't already!

I'd certainly call in if Tony were doing radio. And yeah! I'd never want anything like that in my car. I saw a CNN demo of hackers hijacking a car that was staged to show how it's done.

tonyb

cnh wrote: »

teekay0007 wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

I wasn't talking specifically the insurance business, business in general.

But if you'd like I can talk insurance.

Now, does this surprise anybody? You should have a radio show Tony...if you don't already!

I'd certainly call in if Tony were doing radio.

LOL....hopefully with some good Greek recipes.

I couldn't do talk radio, having to cut people off and such. Plus I'd offend too many, being PC isn't my strong suit. Problem is, as CNH and a few others also know, is when you've been alive long enough, you come to realize the storyline you've been taught in school and as a young adult isn't necessarily true. Which is probably why most old folks are grumpy, because they feel like garbage for having the wool pulled over them for so long.

Dongles in cars.....just a sliver of whats to come. Every move you make will eventually be monitored, judged, and fined if it doesn't fall into parameters set forth by someone else. Doesn't healthcare already work like that ?

I think it's Oregon who now is going to force people to buy their GPS for your cars so they can tax you per mile driven. That's what smart meters will eventually be used for....another source of income. Appliances that connect to the internet....for what ? Refrigerators that scan the bar codes on food.....for what ? So somebody a thousand miles away can dictate your not eating healthy and charge you more for health insurance ? Thermostats that connect to the internet, for what ? So they can charge you more if your heating or cooling beyond the norms ? Even now every key you hit on your 'puter is being monitored, stored, and a personal profile being made about you.....by people who don't even know you. Cell phone conversations....won't even go there right now.

Whats next....we all have to wear a device to monitor how much we walk every day ? Maybe get implanted like a dog so all your personal information is readily available to whoever needs to scan you ? Would make I.D.'s obsolete wouldn't it ? Maybe earn points for being a "good citizen" and earn some form of tax relief ?

Crazy talk I know, but look where we are today, did any of you think it was possible 10 years ago ?

tonyb

Funny, I just came across this....

http://www.sputniknews.com/europe/20150813/1025708375/finland-finns-party-tracking-implant-welfare.html

Cool, only here the men would have to get a dongle installed on their....um....dongle. lol Won't be long...

nooshinjohn

F1nut wrote: »

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/08/13/hackers-hijack-car-insurance-gadget-hit-corvette-brakes/

I would never have one of these installed, talk about big brother.

They will be made mandatory so the government can tax you for each mile driven and shut your car off at will. California is implementing this stuff though SB350, which is going to also force a mandatory.50% reduction in fuel usage by both individuals and businesses... I pray daily that my wife will go along with cashing out of this crazy place and moving to Texas.

EndersShadow

Anyone want to talk PIP lol... That right there is just one example of a horrible system that we are all paying out the A$$ for in insurance premiums.....

There are lawyers, shady doctors, chiropractors and everyone gaming the system when it comes to a car wreck so thats one reason insurance rates rise..... Plus people are living longer and driving LONG beyond when they should... Who wants to tell grandma to give up the keys? Then when she gets in 15 wrecks in a year, who pays for em.. well her a bit but the rest of us do as well.....

So its a compounding problem, I just have a bit of an inside look.

And Tony hit the nail on the head with regulation as well.

Additionally companies like Geico offering minimum coverage are a BAD THING. What happens when you get in a wreck and have a legit large claim? Well you max their limits quick and turn around and ask for underinsured coverage (which you paid for so you should get). But that coverage does cost money to all of us. And the more people using min coverage, the more underinsured claims you have, which makes it more expensive, etc.... You get where this is going....

Oh and then we have uninsured drivers, which are on the rise... And on and on and on...

smglbrth

Wasn't it Ben Franklin that said something to the effect of, those who give up liberty for security deserve neither liberty or security?

warren

I wonder what the great and famous Ben would say about Home Land Security?

polrbehr

warren wrote: »

I wonder what the great and famous Ben would say about Home Land Security?

But it has such a warm and cozy ring to it...

Tony, there should definitely be a microphone out there with your name on it

tonyb

Dan,
The problem with auto insurance has many facets to it. In their defense though, lets look at the numbers realistically. Lets say you pay roughly 1000 bucks a year for full coverage, some areas will be more, some less, but on average. Lets say you drive for 5 years accident free and one day in the rain you T-bone a new Mercedes. The cost of fixing that Mercedes is going to be well beyond the 5g's in premiums you paid to date.

As you know, lots of things go into what makes your insurance rate what it is, but in the end it comes down to pooling money, accessing risk, and a sharing of the misery. Health insurance works on the same model as with most insurance of any kind.

Now, lets look at it from a different angle.

Many studies have been done about the cost of insurance, college tuition, etc. Any time you subsidize something, the costs actually go up is what they found. Sure, you may help a select few, but the misery is then shared with the majority and costs rise.

Think about car repairs, everyone knows they don't come cheap anymore. If a repair joint knows insurance is paying....it costs more. If your hospital knows you have good health insurance....their services will cost more.

Now here's a radical thought, what if we were to do away with insurance except for catastrophic measures. What if you had to pay cash for those auto repairs, health services ? You would force companies to compete for those dollars and that lowers prices. I've talked about my own experience getting an MRI done. To get it done in a hospital....4g's. Outside the hospital....1200. Cash price.....400.

The more things you put between you and the final services rendered only serves to raise costs. In fairness though, sometimes it is necessary. Lawyers and uninsured motorist also enter the pot but that's a discussion for another thread.

Now think about the average median income today is the same as 20+ years ago. Were things cheaper 20 years ago ? Darn straight they were. That means your disposable income is going in the toilet for most.....and if continued on the same path spells poverty for a lot of people accustomed to a middle class lifestyle.

Insurance has been made into a necessary evil, you can't live without it. That's the whole point though isn't it ? A constant stream of income taken from the masses, like taxes. Healthcare insurance was just made into that necessary evil too, you HAVE to have it. When you start adding up all the necessary evils we are told we Have to have, it doesn't take long to see your behind the 8 ball for much of your working life.

There is always going to be benefits and side effects to anything we do, but somewhere along the way we have to draw a line on personal responsibility and make people stand up and pay for their own decisions in life instead of this constant security blanket we keep throwing out there.

smglbrth

Two groups of "corporates" who never lose money, lawyers and insurance companies...

tonyb

smglbrth wrote: »

Two groups of "corporates" who never lose money, lawyers and insurance companies...

I'm afraid you can add many to that list. Least not without a bailout from taxpayers. If lawyers make the laws, rich politicians create legislation, who are they protecting....rich people or poor people ?

Answer is obvious, and a big part of the problem in the last 80 years or so. Here's an interesting stat....it took us 200+ years to rack up 8.5 trillion in debt and only 8 years to double that. Don't think I need to create a pie chart to explain how this path ends.

Let me add to that because well, everything runs together.

Economic stats are used for many things, mosty political means and are usually conveniently falsified, manipulated. That said, economics is often measured in terms of growth. Some say a target of between 4-5% is ideal.....AND history has proven such.

When we look back to periods of economic growth....recent memory anyway for us old folks, we find the 60's. With JFK and his lower tax policies we experienced a tad over 4% growth. Definitely not a Democrat by todays standards.Then we had the 80's and Reagans lower tax policies. Then the 90's with both houses controlled by Republicans who held Clinton to the middle and forced some tax relief while also benefiting from the .com explosion of the times. In all cases, growth was between 4-5%, even Bush had roughly 3+% on average.

Know what it is the last 8 years ? Average of 2%, the second worst record since the great depression. Yet we are told everything is fine and the economy great aren't we ? Could it be we are doing the exact opposite of what has worked so well in the past ? Now granted, nobody can expect constant growth in the 4-5% range without some setbacks, but never has growth been this stagnant for this long. Know what the side benefit of growth was in most all these cases ? God forbid....wages rose along with it.

Just my opinion of course, but the call for higher taxes as we so often see today is really a cover for failed economic policy. Getting anyone to admit that though will never happen. From where I sit, I see the country being looted of it's wealth, economically, socially, morally, and it's sovereignty being given away by those who hold sway over our laws and money. Everything else is just a side show to keep your attention and emotions away from the real criminals.

nooshinjohn

The standard of living used to double with each generation in this country. As tony pointed out, incomes have not moved in twenty years. In my profession, we have even seen pay cuts over that time.

We need to fix our foundation (knowing our founding principles is a great place to start), get right with our Creator and get back to treasuring liberty for the gift it truly is.

madmax

nooshinjohn wrote: »

We need to fix our foundation (knowing our founding principles is a great place to start), get right with our Creator and get back to treasuring liberty for the gift it truly is.

Sounds like one of them radicals...

tonyb

Johns been a radical his whole life. Kinda reminds me of Gru when he was a kid from the Minion movies. Just replace rockets with tubes is all.

sucks2beme

Doubling the standard of living is an unnatural state.
It happened due to technical advances and the long period of
of manufacturing dominance we enjoyed. We no longer make stuff
here. Now that wealth is no longer being created here, the
wealth is going into other pockets. Consumer economy my @ss.

I've looked at a bunch of new cars in the last few years. They don't sell the car,
they sell toys like bluetooth, backup cameras, and navigation.
I showed the Caddy salesman my knukle dragger phone and told
him I couldn't care less. He still just had to run his mouth about all the
great ways to tie a smartphone to the car. (CUE -Cadillac user experience).
We don't need more electronics in the car, we drivers to stop playing
and just drive the D@MN car!

tonyb

sucks2beme wrote: »

Doubling the standard of living is an unnatural state.
It happened due to technical advances and the long period of
of manufacturing dominance we enjoyed. We no longer make stuff
here. Now that wealth is no longer being created here, the
wealth is going into other pockets. Consumer economy my @ss.

I've looked at a bunch of new cars in the last few years. They don't sell the car,
they sell toys like bluetooth, backup cameras, and navigation.
I showed the Caddy salesman my knukle dragger phone and told
him I couldn't care less. He still just had to run his mouth about all the
great ways to tie a smartphone to the car. (CUE -Cadillac user experience).
We don't need more electronics in the car, we drivers to stop playing
and just drive the D@MN car!

It's called marketing.....lots of shiny things to get you to buy junk, that they know is junk, and couldn't sell it otherwise.....but you can order a pizza hands free, gotta be worth somethin'.

sucks2beme

If a terrorist could point an antenna at a highway and set off all the cellphone ringers
at once, they'd all kill themselves answering them.

tonyb

sucks2beme wrote: »

If a terrorist could point an antenna at a highway and set off all the cellphone ringers
at once, they'd all kill themselves answering them.

Your giving the general public too much credit, and terrorists would only do that for amusement.

All you have to do is yell "squirrel" and everyone would crash their cars....or say "look....Beyoncé". Terrorists worth their salt would simply use an EMP blast to take us out.

madmax

It used to be you paid an extra $3K for the optional 429 engine or some racing package, not some dumbass connectivity that has a total cost to the manufacturer of about 29 cents...

tonyb

madmax wrote: »

It used to be you paid an extra $3K for the optional 429 engine or some racing package, not some dumbass connectivity that has a total cost to the manufacturer of about 29 cents...

LOL, I hear ya man. Those packages are still available today on various cars but cost way more than 3g's. Man, I miss auto from the 60's and early 70's.

My Lexus SUV is loaded with junk I never use. Back-up camera ? Isn't that what the rear view mirror is for ? Push a button to open and close the rear hatch....like it was such a pain to use your hand ? Warning junk for everything too. I can see the fuel gauge to know when I'm out of fuel. Steering wheel controls for the radio and cdp is nice though, but I never use the Bluetooth. Dual climate control....really ? Useless for the front seats as you sit like less than 2 feet apart. Another feature I find useful is the automatic tinting windows, cuts way down on glare at night. Snow mode....never use it, being from Chicago you learn how to drive in the snow since you were like 10 years old. Tons of other stuff too I never use.

Cars come as a package, just like cable channels. To get what you want, you also have to get stuff you don't want. Such is life......dongles and all.