Harman Kardon

mingram1234

What do you all on this board think about older model HK's? Specifically I have a HK680i and luv it so much that I also am getting another one-HK795i of ebay. The HK680i is 60wpc with 30 amps of what they call High instantaneous Current and the HK795i is 70 watts with 45 amps current. I have an Onkyo TX-DS595 and it is supposed to be a high current. It does sound good and that is my main surround system with 4-rti28i's for front mains and rear surround, csi30 center and a psw350 sub.
What do you all think about Harmon Kardon products? I've heard some of the newer models have quality control problems. What I'm asking is for opinions on the older HK's around '79-'85.

Thanks,
Mitchell

gatemplin

I have a newer HK receiver and love the sound. The newer models which are designed in the US but made in China have had quality control problems but if they work, they sound great. FWIW you can pick cheap refurb HKs from www.harmanaudio.com

AsSiMiLaTeD

I've owned H/K my whole life in some capacity and love their quelity, but I've also heard bad things about their newer stuff.

I just bought a 90s model receiver AVR 80MKII...which I absolutely love. I'm fairly young still, but if I remember correctly, H/K basically developed HI-FI Audio equipment...

I've heard great things about everything they've up until about two years ago...

steveinaz

HK will always have a special place in my heart. It was a friend of mine that had an old (1976'ish) Harmon Kardon receiver that really got me going into hi-fi.

woodyjacobs

I wish I had more experience with the older H/K gear. I have owned a couple of their recent AV and stereo receivers and found them to be solid and very sweet-sounding compared to other brands in their price range. Sorry it doesn't answer your question, just my 2 cents.

PolkThug

I don't care for the new HK receivers. They seem to "tire" easier than their Onkyo peers. The blue dials may look cool to some people, but IMO the amps seem kind of weak in comparison. And no I'm not an HK hater, I have 10 HK speakers in my car!

Regards,
PolkThug

Telemundo

I agree with most of the people here about the newest H/K avrs....I heard one with the Polk RTi surround setup at my local Fry's store and found a new hobby from that day on. They make really cool receivers and all, but the amps' design is alot more "blah" compared to the AVR line. And their DVD players aren't too great compared to others by Denon and Pioneer Elite...IMO. Ultimatly, I'd end up with all the components setup from the same company and same design.

00p225

Well I've owned one from nearly every different series they made excluding the citation line, and the best series are the early "twin powered" designs, mainly the HK 730 and 930. Go over to the Klipsch forum and see what they have to say about the smaller 430 which is around 20wpc and you'll see it has a huge following in it's own right. I've also owned the early 80's 330i and the 570i which is similar to yours. These sound nice for the period, but don't compare to the earlier versions in my opinion. HK did some serious research on square wave testing and it's effect on the human body. They also voiced these receivers to equal their earlier citation tube lineup and actually did very well. My HK 930 had the preamp recapped and sounds absolutely fabulous. I'm running it on a pair of vintage Pioneer HPM-100's and together they have to be heard to be beleived, especially for the price. There are many who feel the 930's amp is good enough to use as a stand alone amp and pair it with highend preamps.

I never had much regard for the late 80's-early 90's HK gear, too many quality control issues. I do have an AVR 25II which does well and also an AVR 500 that I use the preamp from driving a vintage McIntosh 100wpc amp with my Polk SDA's and it does ok, but the AVR 500 really is a bit veiled and also warm sounding. Some may like this, others not. I will say, my HK 930 will eat the newer setup alive in sheer musicality, detail, and dynamics. Pair the Mac amp with a better preamp and it's another story, but the 930's amp portion will give the mac a serious run for the money, and with the preamp rebuilt, actually is more pleasing musically than alot of mid/hi-fi seperates being sold today.

Many may scoff at my opinion of the 930, but I've had receivers/integrateds from other's including Marantz, Sansui, Technics,Sony etc and while some may have more power (930 is very underated at 45wpc) for sheer musicality, the human voice, acoustic instruments the 930 is really a but kicker. Had a friend over the other night that runs a Kenwood KA-600 (this was there top of the line integrated amp in the late 70's) using mosfets. He wanted to swap my HPM 100's for his Polk Monitor 10's for a while. I hooked his Monitor 10's to the HK 930 and a HK FL8350 cd player and I kid you not, he was totally stunned. He just sat there and kept looking at me and then the receiver, just shaking his head. He could not beleiver that receiver was making his Polks sound better than they ever had for the last 25 years, and he's had some NICE stuff driving them over the years.

I guess I'm guilty of being an HK nut :-) Regards

00p225

Well I've owned one from nearly every different series they made excluding the citation line, and the best series are the early "twin powered" designs, mainly the HK 730 and 930. Go over to the Klipsch forum and see what they have to say about the smaller 430 which is around 20wpc and you'll see it has a huge following in it's own right. I've also owned the early 80's 330i and the 570i which is similar to yours. These sound nice for the period, but don't compare to the earlier versions in my opinion. HK did some serious research on square wave testing and it's effect on the human body. They also voiced these receivers to equal their earlier citation tube lineup and actually did very well. My HK 930 had the preamp recapped and sounds absolutely fabulous. I'm running it on a pair of vintage Pioneer HPM-100's and together they have to be heard to be beleived, especially for the price. There are many who feel the 930's amp is good enough to use as a stand alone amp and pair it with highend preamps.

I never had much regard for the late 80's-early 90's HK gear, too many quality control issues. I do have an AVR 25II which does well and also an AVR 500 that I use the preamp from driving a vintage McIntosh 100wpc amp with my Polk SDA's and it does ok, but the AVR 500 really is a bit veiled and also warm sounding. Some may like this, others not. I will say, my HK 930 will eat the newer setup alive in sheer musicality, detail, and dynamics. Pair the Mac amp with a better preamp and it's another story, but the 930's amp portion will give the mac a serious run for the money, and with the preamp rebuilt, actually is more pleasing musically than alot of mid/hi-fi seperates being sold today.

Many may scoff at my opinion of the 930, but I've had receivers/integrateds from other's including Marantz, Sansui, Technics,Sony etc and while some may have more power (930 is very underated at 45wpc) for sheer musicality, the human voice, acoustic instruments the 930 is really a but kicker. Had a friend over the other night that runs a Kenwood KA-600 (this was there top of the line integrated amp in the late 70's) using mosfets. He wanted to swap my HPM 100's for his Polk Monitor 10's for a while. I hooked his Monitor 10's to the HK 930 and a HK FL8350 cd player and I kid you not, he was totally stunned. He just sat there and kept looking at me and then the receiver, just shaking his head. He could not beleiver that receiver was making his Polks sound better than they ever had for the last 25 years, and he's had some NICE stuff driving them over the years.

I guess I'm guilty of being an HK nut :-) Regards

Tour2ma

A write-up so good, it had to be posted twice...

Count me in as well as an admirer of 70's HK, including the Citation line. They always issued the most conservative power ratings.

TBH I pretty much lost track of them through the 80's and 90's, but was under the impression that their rep took a few lumps through that period. I have heard a couple of their AVR"s, but not enough to offer an opinion.

00p225

I'll just go right ahead and delete that double post. Sometimes it pays not to go back a screen and refresh.........lol

Well I tried to delete it and the forum wouldn't let me, moderators..... anyone..... anyone..... Bueller??

John in Canada

Hi, I too love my 30+ year old HK930. However, it is now blowing the 3A main fuse. Have you ever serviced or heard of a problem like this? I've already replaced the FOUR power output transistors and the FOUR 6800mfd power filter capacitors. No effect. Any thoughts would be welcome. Thanx. John in Canada

Polkersince85

I've got a HK 490i rec, an AVR 85, and a HK 870 amp. All picked up at thrift stores but still work great. That HK 870 will make a set of Monitor 7's sing.

mhardy6647

harman-kardon invented the integrated tuner-amplifier-preamp 'receiver' in 1954. Last I knew, Sidney Harman was still chairman of Harman International, THE last of the American hi-fi pioneers left alive, much less active.

harman-kardon has an extremely proud legacy of products. Their Citation II amp is considered by some to be one the best stereo power amps ever made. Ever. Jim McShane restores/modifies these amps to this day:
http://pages.prodigy.net/jimmcshane/

I can vouch for the hk 690i. I have one which was given to me by a co-worker (its original owner) and has just returned to MA after 3 years of front line duty as my daughter's (and housemates') hi-fi in college at Georgetown. h/k focused on wide bandwidth, excellent transient response, high-performance power supplies (the 430 and other 1970's hk receivers had twin power transformers and power supplies), and low IM distortion. They also made some very, very good tuners and FM sections.

They also made or sold some quite good tt's and arms; also some very decent cassette equipment. In the 1970's, the h/k stuff was some of the most elegant in appearance (IMNSHO).

Harmon Int'l isn't held in particularly high regard by audiophiles today, but h/k still (I believe) sells some decent products and, best of all, make legacy documentation for most of their products readily available on their website. www.harmankardon.com

What's not to like?

Maestro

I still use my hk385i (1988) in my home office. It still sounds great after all these years!!

mhardy6647

Hi, I too love my 30+ year old HK930. However, it is now blowing the 3A main fuse. Have you ever serviced or heard of a problem like this? I've already replaced the FOUR power output transistors and the FOUR 6800mfd power filter capacitors. No effect. Any thoughts would be welcome. Thanx. John in Canada

Wellp, could be a shorted driver, too, y'know?

I'd start by looking at the rectifiers (or bridge), though. You changed the caps, but you didn't mention whether you checked to see if a rectifier was shorted.

Problems like this are a lot easier to troubleshoot in tube circuits :-)

GATOR3000

I have HK PM640 high current integrated amp and HK905 linear tuner that I bought new in 1985 and these units are still pumping! I had no need to replace any parts/bulbs/dials since the original day of purchase. The amp is rated at 35 WPC, I hooked up the amp with my Rti6's and the sound is awesome.

Don't have any experience with the new HK models, but IMO the old units are cool.

Gator

Drumingman

I have a H-K 230 about 2 years old, it runs 24 hours a day, no problems with it and the sound is very good for a receiver. I would prefer a H-K power amp but for now, I'll stick with this.:)

zephyr9900

00p225 wrote: »

My HK 930 had the preamp recapped and sounds absolutely fabulous.

I realize that this is an ancient thread, but if you're still around, 00p225, I'd appreciate more details on this recapping. I am starting to refurbish my 930 (done mostly cosmetic stuff so far--refinishing the walnut case, replaced dial lights, etc.) but would like to go toward more fundamental subjects. I have read that receivers this old should at least have the power supply caps replaced, and caps in the "signal chain" but have no familiarity with what exactly should be replaced.

Thanks,

Randy

jakelm

I ran my HK 330c on Polk 7a's for years. Probably the best match. Lacking alittle in power but awsome sound.

mhardy6647

The 430 and Monitor 7s was a classic MidAtlantic region match back when they were new :-)

ABX

Wow, Avid 103's, really popular at one time.
Remember the EPI 100 and the Rectilinears, and Design Acoustics Balls ?
BIC Venturi's and the real sleepers,. the EV Interface series.

Kex

We recently upgraded our four Polk "New MiniMonitors" (built in May 1996) from stereo duty A & B (Yamaha RX-395) to 5.1 using a harman/kardon AVR 147. We also added a CS245i center ($50 on craigslist.com) and an Acoustech H100 subwoofer.

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=200201&CNTYP=PRODUCT&LGFL=Y
http://www.harmankardon.com/product_detail.aspx?cat=REC&sType=C&prod=AVR+147

We have been very impressed with the results. Before buying we compared both receivers with two MiniMonitors connected in stereo to each one (but this test was actually done with a borrowed entry level 146). Power wise, they were identical at the -16dB level on the volume knob. The h/k sounded slightly warmer though, especially at higher listening levels. The Yamaha is rated at 68 x 2. The 146 is rated at just 30w x 5 and 40w x 2.

Since then, all hooked up and working, we tried out the 147 without using the subwoofer. It sounded excellent to us. More powerful and melodious than the Yamaha (making it sound rather loud and noisy in comparison). We have never noticed any distortion at any sound levels (which we now suspect may have been happening a little with the Yamaha during our highest "normal loud" listening, about -16dB, or 12 o'clock on the dial, causing a form of listening fatigue that we do not experience at all with the h/k). We have been very impressed with the New MiniMonitors' ability to sound excellent with music and HT, with or without a subwoofer.

We were just recently visiting a house where the system was this:

- Denon 1803.
- Boston Acoustics MicroSystem 9000 II

http://usa.denon.com/ArchivedAVReceivers.asp?archivedModelSearch=true&clearCurrent=true&archivedCategory=AV&archivedModel=AVR-1803&imageField.x=22&imageField.y=12

We are convinced our little system is superior, and we don't have to push the h/k 147 as much as was needed on the Denon 1803 rated at 80w per channel (but it was in a larger room too).

I would not go so far as to think that harman/kardon are truly better than, say Yamaha or Denon, nor would I consider buying a Yamaha or Denon as a mistake in the future, but we are certainly very pleased with what we have been able to do with four older small Polk speakers.

There is one thing I have never quite worked out though: how to truly compare h/k ratings to others. For example, should we consider:

- h/k 40w x 5 (all channels driven) = 200w.
- Brand "x" 100w x 5 = 100w x 2 (probably two channels driven) = 200w.

The only reason I wonder is that we are still lurking on craigslist for an upgrade to our excellent little MiniMons ... just for the heck of it, and don't want to be disappointed if our modest h/k has trouble with the extra power needed to drive something larger.

ABX

mhardy6647 wrote: »

harman-kardon invented the integrated tuner-amplifier-preamp 'receiver' in 1954. Last I knew, Sidney Harman was still chairman of Harman International, THE last of the American hi-fi pioneers left alive, much less active.

harman-kardon has an extremely proud legacy of products. Their Citation II amp is considered by some to be one the best stereo power amps ever made. Ever. Jim McShane restores/modifies these amps to this day:
http://pages.prodigy.net/jimmcshane/

I can vouch for the hk 690i. I have one which was given to me by a co-worker (its original owner) and has just returned to MA after 3 years of front line duty as my daughter's (and housemates') hi-fi in college at Georgetown. h/k focused on wide bandwidth, excellent transient response, high-performance power supplies (the 430 and other 1970's hk receivers had twin power transformers and power supplies), and low IM distortion. They also made some very, very good tuners and FM sections.

They also made or sold some quite good tt's and arms; also some very decent cassette equipment. In the 1970's, the h/k stuff was some of the most elegant in appearance (IMNSHO).

Harmon Int'l isn't held in particularly high regard by audiophiles today, but h/k still (I believe) sells some decent products and, best of all, make legacy documentation for most of their products readily available on their website. www.harmankardon.com

What's not to like?

The Shytation Tube amps are getting harder and harder to find these days.
Reason ?
Their excellent transformers.
Bruce Moore buys up all he can get hold of for their Iron.
I would put a refreshed Citation Tube amp up against most amps of today.
HK receivers are as good as any IMO.
The HK AVR 7000 was a nice piece.
I don't know if you recall the older Transistor Citation seriwes Dr Matti Otala designed for HK ?
It was strikingly beautiful, kinda looked like Mac a little bit ?

ben62670

I had an AVR-245. It was very warm, and clean. It made a great PrePro, but I "stepped up" to an Outlaw 990 Pre. While the Outlaw is better in some aspects it was also 4 times the price. Dollar for dollar you can not beat HK. I had a Yami, and it was not even close when it came to music quality compared to the HK.

AndyGwis

Agreed. My 635 has treated me VERY well. First, as a AVR, now as more of a Pre-Pro.

My 3480 has also been a very solid performer.

Some have mild quality issues with HK, but their service deparment seems to be pretty good for a huge corporation, and you just can't beat them dollar for dollar.

My 635 blew away a highly rated Pioneer 1015 for only $100 more. And, in addition to sounding better, having much better features, and more power, it's also very attractive IMO. Matches my also very attractive HD-XA1 like they were destined to be together.

wdrazek

As a kid I dropped $600 for a new HK 670 when it first came out. In the day I was buying and trading tons of gear and it was the best piece I had in the day. Very powerful beyond its 60wpc.

Years later I found a Citation 1/2/3x that was being given away for like $350. It was amazing. I later sold it for more than double the price. That was one of the nicest combo's I have ever had.

Monster Jam

gatemplin wrote: »

I have a newer HK receiver and love the sound. The newer models which are designed in the US but made in China have had quality control problems but if they work, they sound great. FWIW you can pick cheap refurb HKs from www.harmanaudio.com

I second this opinion.

Marinesciguy

Looks like I found just the thread I was looking for.

Hi all, I'm new to the whole audiophile game. I was recently turned on to the wonders of this and instead of the monitor 60s that I had originally planned on, I'm ending up with a pair of SBA IIs (Thanks again Ron).

I'm now proceeding to build a home theatre setup around these things, but I'm exceedingly weak in amp knowledge as nothing I had looked at before had really required them.

As a teacher, I'm rather budget constrained, so I've been looking at vintage and used amps for the most part, and came across a cheap Harman Kardon Twin Power 430. I'm confused on the amount of power it offers though, and whether this would be enough to run the SBA IIs. From earlier threads I gathered that just a standard receiver (I was planning on a Pioneer 1018 very likely) wouldn't have enough juice.

According to the manual, the 430 provides 25 watts min. RMS per channel, both channels driven into 8 ohms from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, with less than .3% THD.

I haven't a clue as to what this means.

I'm really confused as the Pioneer 1018 provides 120 watts per channel front.

Is the 430 a bad amp? Is there some very odd way these things are measured? Am I just missing something completely?

I figure if anyone would know if this could power the Polk SBA IIs, it would be someone in the Harman Kardon thread on Club Polk.

Thanks all.

mhardy6647

The 430 has an excellent power amplifier that is essentially a "dual mono" circuit (two independent power supplies). The 25 watts per channel figure is measured according to a law enacted via the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) which applies to power ratings for home stereo equipment. In the late-1960s/early 1970s, a number of misleading power claims were being made for hifi equipment (IHF power, peak power, music power, "+/- 1 dB" power, stereo power, etc.). The FTC decided in 1974 to establish a very rigorous power spec requirement. The "RMS power" (which is really a misnomer; the quantity is "continuous sine wave power") must be stated, per channel, into a specified load impedance (e.g., 8 ohms) over a specified frequency range (typically 20 to 20,000 Hz) at a given level of total harmonic distortion. The test is extremely rigorous, as the receriver or amp must be "preconditioned" for (IIRC) 1 hour at 1/3 rated power. That's a continuous "warm up" and is extremely stressful for any amplifier; most get very hot during preconditioning.

The FTC regulations actually (as far as I know) still apply to home two-channel hifi. They never applied to car stereo or to multichannel (nor commercial)... so manufacturers of the latter types of equipment can claim pretty much anything they want.

The 25 wpc of an hk430 will go a long way. How adequate it is for your speakers depends upon the speakers' sensitivity (how many dB/watt, basically), the type of music you like to listen to, and how loud you like to listen.

The hk 430 was, and is, an excellent receiver when its in good working order.


Hope this helps.

Subwoofernut

00p225 wrote: »

Well I've owned one from nearly every different series they made excluding the citation line, and the best series are the early "twin powered" designs, mainly the HK 730 and 930. Go over to the Klipsch forum and see what they have to say about the smaller 430 which is around 20wpc and you'll see it has a huge following in it's own right. I've also owned the early 80's 330i and the 570i which is similar to yours. There are many who feel the 930's amp is good enough to use as a stand alone amp and pair it with highend preamps.

Many may scoff at my opinion of the 930, but I've had receivers/integrateds from other's including Marantz, Sansui, Technics,Sony etc and while some may have more power (930 is very underated at 45wpc) for sheer musicality, the human voice, acoustic instruments the 930 is really a but kicker.

I guess I'm guilty of being an HK nut :-) Regards

I, too am a fan of the older 430,730 and 930 receivers. They featured what HK referred to as Ultra Wide Bandwidth amplifier sections, which focused on fast attack time and slew rates. (Trying to remember, many moons ago). The layman's version were amps that responded quickly to inputs, and were accurate to boot. For the time, short of buying separates from the Citation line, or moving considerably up the pay scale to Phase Linear, Marantz or McIntosh, they were the best sound you could get for a reasonable amount. Paired with with a good pair of speakers, you had pretty good sound. My system back then was a 730 receiver, a pair of JBL Century L-100s, and a super sweet Philips 312 manual turntable with the touch controls (Still the coolest). Man, they sounded really good. This at the time when most US manufacturers were making really large console stereos touting hundreds of watts. (Nice furniture, crappy sound) Sadly, the new Harman International is producing items of nowhere near this quality. I looked at the new HK3490 at Fry's recently, and it was downright flimsy. What was even worse, was that a flotilla of employees collectively could not figure out how to hook it up. They did a lot of button pushing on the giant "display-o-matic" switch gear, to no avail. I tried to be gracious, thanked them, and left.:o