Polk speaker series?

ziggy1971

I'm fairly new to building a home theater with separates. I'm used to the HTIB systems and so far I can't complain about the results.

Due to budget reasons, I'm building my HT with used parts. So far I've found a set of RTi10's and a CSi3 and am running them with a Yamaha RX-A720.

What I'm wondering is how Polk Audio has their "series".
For instance, what's the difference between the Monitor series vs. the RTi series and LSi series?

I'm looking for a set of rear speakers now, preferably the RTi4's, but I've read that Polk series are "timbre" matched. The RTi4's are at over $400 at the local Best Buy, which is more than what I paid for my RTi10's used.

How well would a set of TSi100's or RTiA1's sound with the rest of the speakers?

Any info on each series level/quality would be appreciated.

vmaxer

txcoastal1 wrote: »

vmaxer wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

Don't get into Canada much, unless it's to sneak across the border and steal all the Salmon...and hockey pucks I can. With the draft gone down here, is there a reason to head up into the tundra ?

Hell, I am in Canada now....barely. In Windsor till Friday.

That ain't Canada, that's a stroll over the bridge or through the tunnel...there are some good bars there though

You are correct, headed up to The Bull & Barrel a bit later.

PSOVLSK

For surround even the R15 will be serviceable. If you're into 5.1 audio I'd go a different route, but strictly for surround the R15 would be a very budget conscious choice.

ziggy1971

Thanx.
I checked the link you left as well as doing my own searches.
The link you left says they don't ship to Canada.
Other offers, when adding the shipping rate as well as customs, the price is still in the neighborhood of $400 CA.
Keep looking...

I only listen to movies in surround, music in stereo. Unless it's a music DVD recorded in 5.1 then I'll use that. I'm not a fan of receiver processing, I want to hear it the way it was intended (at least as close as I can come to it/afford it)

ziggy1971

So, are the Monitor series the newest series? Where do the TSX's fit into the picture?
Basically, my local options are Best Buy.ca or http://www.visions.ca/Default.aspx

Not really in any rush to purchase, just weighing out some options.

Also, I'll be getting a sub at some point also. However, it seems that a lot of people/reviews aren't all that great for Polk's subs. I don't need to shake the house off it's foundation, but I do like to hear clean and accurate bass. It'll be either 10" or 12". Any thoughts?

ziggy1971

Actually, the ad says "RTiA1". Are they the same speaker, only a slightly different enclosure? Because my RTi10's look just like the RTiA7's.

Nightfall

ziggy1971 wrote: »

Also, I'll be getting a sub at some point also. However, it seems that a lot of people/reviews aren't all that great for Polk's subs. I don't need to shake the house off it's foundation, but I do like to hear clean and accurate bass. It'll be either 10" or 12". Any thoughts?

How big is the room?

cnh

Get whatever is the most budget friendly. Timbre matching is MOST important for the FRONT L/C/R (and you ALREADY have that!), after that it's not as big a deal, you could use any of the cheaper Polk models and it would be decent.

The real upgrade to your system would be eventually going with the LARGER CSi-5 center, but that can wait.

Good luck!

ziggy1971

Wow, so much good info, I should've come here sooner.
Thanx for the list of Canadian stores. I couldn't tell you how many times I've used Google to try to find more store info and I got much more on here in one day.

My place really isn't all that big (at the moment), so I might just forgo the sub for now, the RTi10's are quite surprising (and only $300 for the pair). I got the CSi3 center for $120 and the receiver for $300 also. All the items were bought on Kijiji and are in surprisingly mint condition. Considering the HTIB's I had before, there really is no comparison.

So, instead of "building up" to the system I want (ie. buying parts for the short term) I'll simply suffer, save, and wait until I can get the parts I want.

Currently, I'm using the RM6750 satellites for surrounds and front presence; they kinda sound hollow, but oh well. They'll do for now.

Can I just say I'm very happy with this system...

Really, the only complaint I have is the fact that I had a hard time finding info on speaker placement of the RTi10's. I was so frustrated, I finally moved all furniture away from a wall, placed them in the center about 2 feet from the back wall and continued testing/moving till I got a really good sound out of them. The YPAO calibration is almost flat, but I run them either direct or Pure Direct, bypassing all processing.

Again, thanks a lot for the info...

F1nut

Because my RTi10's look just like the RTiA7's.

Better look again.

F1nut

Really, the only complaint I have is the fact that I had a hard time finding info on speaker placement of the RTi10's. I was so frustrated, I finally moved all furniture away from a wall, placed them in the center about 2 feet from the back wall and continued testing/moving till I got a really good sound out of them. The YPAO calibration is almost flat, but I run them either direct or Pure Direct, bypassing all processing.

You want an equilateral triangle, that is the same distance apart and to your listening position. They should have a slight toe in. When sitting in your listening position you want to just see the inside leading edge of the cabinets. Because they have a power port, distance from the back wall isn't critical. The center should be aimed at your head regardless if it's above or below the screen. Rerun the calibration program in a dead quiet room. Since you don't have a sub make sure the front L/R are set to large. I seriously doubt you'll get an almost flat result if done correctly and if done correctly it should sound a lot better than direct or pure direct when watching TV/movies.

ziggy1971

Sorry, the driver compliment is what I meant. Maybe even the same speaker models (I already checked mine so now I need to find the model numbers for the RTiA7's) I know the cabinets look different and I believe the crossover is slightly different also.

It does sound a lot different using the YPAO measurement.

tonyb

They would sound even better if you fed them the juice they crave with an external amp. Congrats on all the stuff, seems like you did well on the used market.

F1nut

The OP needs to get a sub before thinking about an external amp. A sub will take a lot of the load off the AVR.

ziggy1971

I read in one of the forums that using a Yamaha receiver with these speakers was a bad match. (Too bad I found the receiver before the speakers)
I listen to music ~90%, movies ~10% and probably at least 3-4 hours a day, sometimes up 14 hours. Most of that time the volume level is about 65-75 dB.

I'm looking into Room EQ Wizard to possibly take some measurements. Gotta learn how to use the program first. If I knew, or could find out what the frequency response of the YPAO mic is, I could use that for testing.

tonyb

F1nut wrote: »

The OP needs to get a sub before thinking about an external amp. A sub will take a lot of the load off the AVR.

True Jess, unless the guy doesn't want a sub. Always more than one way to skin that audio cat.

ziggy1971

I'm curious. I've read in many forums that these speakers are "power hungry", "need a lot of juice", etc.

I've also read that it's because of the impedance curve that these speakers NEED power; I couldn't find any copy of that impedance curve anywhere to verify the claims.

A receiver like mine is rated at 90watts/ch with 2ch driven. Now, hypothetically speaking, if I got an amplifier with double the power (180watts/ch with 2ch driven), it would only yield ~3dB gain in volume.

Now, on to another thing. The speaker sensitivity is ~89dB (1w/1m) (not sure at what frequency). Now, if I were to play 2 speakers at 89dBFS, why would 90watts/ch not be sufficient for the rated frequency response?

I don't know of many people that listen to their systems at or above 90dB for any extended periods because that is pretty darn loud for watching a movie (with the exception of the low bass).

Just for the record, I have turned up the volume all the way up and this system packs a serious kick, at all frequencies.

Personally speaking, I wouldn't say that these speakers are in need of more power. Having a better room, or acoustic treatment with sound dampening to keep out outside noise would be a better way to go.

When I was younger, I did have a car stereo that did go well into the 140dB range. It was awesome. Designing, building, testing and listening to a well tuned system is a lot of fun. I can't imagine building a system IN A HOME/APARTMENT that would do 140dB!

Also, the purpose of having the 2 7" woofers seems kinda strange of you're going to use a sub and cut off the frequency at ~80Hz. The speakers already have a 125Hz high pass cutoff, so having another high pass cut off at 80Hz leaves all 4 7" woofers (2 speakers) to do the work between 80Hz and 125Hz (+/- the cutoff slopes), a very narrow margin for 4 woofers to do very little it seems.

I know I'll probably get bashed for this but hey, gotta learn the hard way sometimes.

tonyb

No, no bashing....honest questions don't deserve it.

Depends on your goals. You don't add an amp to gain loudness, contrary to what some believe. You add an amp to gain clarity, dynamics, extension. Think of it like taking your thumb off the end of the garden hose.....more flow.

Most speakers are rated nominal, meaning it could dip lower than their rated ohms, and most do. It's about current, not watts....and most low to mid-fi receivers lack the better power supplies to deliver current enough for the harder to drive speakers.

The RTI10's can be driven with a mid-fi receiver, but they won't sound their best. Taking a load of the receivers power supply by adding a subwoofer for those demanding lows is one way to do it as F1NUT suggests. Adding an amp is another. Doing both, even better.

As far as the setting to 80 on the crossover, that's not written in stone, you can experiment some to what sounds best to you. Personally, with big floorstanders, I like letting them run wild at full range set to large. That's just me though, others will certainly prefer set to small crossed over between 60-80.

tonyb

Still waiting for my honorary Canadian citizenship papers for that one too.

ziggy1971

I appreciate all the input I've received thus far, even though it's way off the topic of "Polk Series", but great nonetheless.

The original question was to find out where/how the Polk Audio product line works. (ie. LSi vs. RTi series vs. Monitor series, etc.)

tonyb wrote: »

Still waiting for my honorary Canadian citizenship papers for that one too.

I'll see what I can do.

tonyb wrote: »

Depends on your goals. You don't add an amp to gain loudness, contrary to what some believe. You add an amp to gain clarity, dynamics, extension. Think of it like taking your thumb off the end of the garden hose.....more flow.

Sorry, I'm the type of person who has to try/hear/see to believe.

Oh, I almost forgot. Speaker positioning. I have them about 6" from the facing wall and about 21" in from side walls, slightly toed in about 8 degrees. Thus far this seems to give me a good sound. Any suggestions on possibly improving this? I've found in a lot of places that people suggest "moving them in at least 2 feet"; question is they never say 2 feet from what? Facing wall? Side wall? Floor? Ceiling? And yes, I've Googled the Dolby and THX specifications.

Thanx a lot for the info.

afterburnt

Well when I did not think there was more to get out of my Monitor 70's I switched them from 200 Emo watts to 250 watts of Parasound 2250 and it was like I had new speakers. That amp really rounded out their sound. I went through 150 watts of Emo to 200 watts of Emo to 250 of Parasound. I don't think the wattage made the difference it was the quality of the watts so to speak.

ziggy1971

Well, maybe one day, when I have some extra clams (ie. $$$) I'll have to run to the local stereo shop and pick up something to try out. Till then, I guess this will have to do.

I still think that it's still an awesome system and at a really good price.
If I were able to buy everything new with much more money, well, that changes the whole complexion of the situation.

Just out of curiosity, any thoughts on the Pioneer Elite or Onkyo receivers?

tonyb

nbrowser wrote: »

ziggy1971 wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

Still waiting for my honorary Canadian citizenship papers for that one too.

I'll see what I can do.

No...no no no! He does NOT get honourary citizenship...he's damaged goods! lol

That was aimed at you Mr. Ken. lol

Only my wife is allowed to call me "damaged goods".

tonyb

Don't get into Canada much, unless it's to sneak across the border and steal all the Salmon...and hockey pucks I can. With the draft gone down here, is there a reason to head up into the tundra ?

vmaxer

tonyb wrote: »

Don't get into Canada much, unless it's to sneak across the border and steal all the Salmon...and hockey pucks I can. With the draft gone down here, is there a reason to head up into the tundra ?

Hell, I am in Canada now....barely. In Windsor till Friday.

txcoastal1

vmaxer wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

Don't get into Canada much, unless it's to sneak across the border and steal all the Salmon...and hockey pucks I can. With the draft gone down here, is there a reason to head up into the tundra ?

Hell, I am in Canada now....barely. In Windsor till Friday.

That ain't Canada, that's a stroll over the bridge or through the tunnel...there are some good bars there though

ziggy1971

After some patience and googling I finally have some updates.

The Polk RTi4's I was looking at went on sale at the local BB for $199.99 so I picked them up. About a month later, a set of RTi6's became available on Kijiji, also for $200, so I picked them up also (past the 30 day return on the RTi4's though, so I kept them).

In the meantime I've also switched receivers; I now have a Pioneer VSX-1120-K.

Let me start off with the receiver. I highly doubt that going from 90 WPC to 110 WPC would make such a big difference. I would place my bets on the software/firmware used for calibration in each receiver. Yamaha's YPAO simply killed all lower frequencies and had a very basic setup. Pioneer's Advanced MCACC is much more thorough and detailed. Not to mention the fact that I can save up to 6 different settings as well as save them to a USB flash and compare results on my PC with the Pioneer software.

I've also been able to switch speakers between the RTi6 and RTi10's; both have the same 6.5" woofer and tweeters (I checked the model numbers). After calibration I don't see any differences in the charts/settings (aside from the low end that the RTi10's have.) Only some minor positioning adjustments are needed to get "virtually" the same results, but I kinda expected that.

In my opinion, I'd have to say that there is a significant difference in what type of surround speaker is being used. When using the satellites from a RM6750 as surrounds the sound was hollow and placement of the speaker itself was easily identifiable without even looking. Watching movies like Transformers or Twister clearly indicated a serious weakness in that area. Switching those to the RTi4's made an incredible difference. The transitions from front to rear/rear to front is much more seamless. Hearing the wind blowing around you instead of the hollow wail is an overwhelming difference.

I won't say that this is a "dream" system by any means, but it's much better than what I've had in the past.

Now, on to what everyone seems to do in this quest, which is "How do I get it BETTER?"

I've been looking at subwoofers, both new and used. And, I've been doing a lot of research into placement, room size and how it affects the lower frequencies. Maybe I've read too much because it doesn't seem to make sense to me now.

What I would like to do now is get a subwoofer. Or I can build one. I've done it many times for different cars so DIY is not a problem.

I want the subwoofer to be able to go down to at least 25 Hz (20 Hz would be perfect). However, my experience in car audio doesn't seem to apply much in the home theater world. Room modes, boundary condition and how it all affects frequency response and intensity.

Perhaps this is the wrong area for these questions, if so, could someone point me in a direction where I could find some good advice on this?

Thanx a lot...