My battery finally gave out...replacement?

AustinKP

I have a 2000 Ford Mustang V6. Last night, I left the headlights on while I ran in the house to get something. I was in the house for like 5 minutes tops, and when I went back out to start the car, the battery was dead. It's been cranking a little slow lately, so I'm pretty sure my battery is dead. I let the car sit for an hour, and it was able to start the engine again, but I think pretty soon, it'll quit working totally.

The question is: Why do I want an Optima Yellow Top battery, vs. say, a Die Hard battery from Wal-Mart? Second, where is the cheapest place to get the Yellow Top?

-Austin

sntnsupermen131

if you have the money, get a yellow top, theyre simply amongst the best batteries you can buy
i have an energizer battery
theyre VERY cheap, and put out a lot of power
mine is something like 900 cold cranking amps
good batteries...i give em an A+:)
you might also look at optima red tops, they might be a little more in your price range
www.sounddomain.com carries optima
-Cody

Systems

for under the hood use... the only difference between a yellow top and a die hard or a energizer or any other lead acid battery is that the yellow top can be recharged an infinite number of times, while the lead acid maybe gets 3 or 4 good full charges.

personally, for the money, i'm a supporter of lead acids.

for 69 bucks i got a 900 CCA / 1100 CA energizer.

actually i got two -- heh heh heh.... more power ... boom

however, y ellow tops are "better" when you're dealing with putting a battery inside a car -- because they dotn give off fumes, and won't spill (they are a gell cell, as opposed to lead acid)

also, they are better for a car that you keep in storage -- for example, my grandfather's cadillac sits for 6 - 7 months over the winter in the garage... so starting it once a week is enough to keep the motor in decent shape but not enough to keep the battery in any kind of good condition -- normally he'd go through a battery every year... which is ridiculous, but with a yellow top he can let it die, recharge it.. let it die, recharge it, let it die, recharge it -- and by doint it all off the battery charger instead of the alternator, he keeps the car in good shape.

CPHILHOWER

I have an Exide Orbital Deep Cycle in my 01 Escape. Its rated 1000 amps. Its a group 34/78. Top and side posts. Only cost me $110 at my local parts store.
Chris

rskarvan

Ok... guys... I'm a regular on the Polk-home side, but I can speak with some authority on this subject as I have worked for 13 years for Delco/Delphi Battery.

Having said that, I would buy a JCI battery. Delco does not have the same quality grid construction as JCI. Delco uses an expanded metal grid whereas JCI uses a cast-silver grid that is fully framed with a lead border. The JCI is much sturdier and resistant to grid-stretch during cycling.

For car-audio, reserve capacity is what is important. Forget the CCA rating, and instead look for the highest RC rating possible. CCA is a function of how many plates (surface area) are in the cell - regardless of thickness. RC is a function of active-material mass. For car audio, you want the battery to have some substance. Go for the high RC rating (units=amp-hours).

Exide isn't a good choice. This company is just emerging from a bankruptcy. They are the high-volume, low quality manufacturer. Sears has even sold used exide batteries as new. Their plants are environmental nightmares. Exide is not a technology leader.

You could do far worse than buying a Delco battery. But, its unlikely that you would do much better than buying a JCI one. The VP of engineering at JCI is an ex-lead-product engineer at Delco. The head of grid development at JCI is also from Delco. I know both individuals personally and they each left Delco because of their inability to work with very poor management. This is the same reason that I left Delco.

Stay away from the smaller battery companies. There really are only three: JCI, Delphi, and Exide. The smaller battery companies are big-time followers and offer nothing particularly special. While the big-yellow rolled-up Optima batteries are unique. I really wouldn't recommend them. Stick with traditional manufacturing methods (Cast grids has been around since the 1920's) and the metallurgy mix has been optimimally tweaked.
Again, CCA is good for cranking your car over - but, it is not a good indicator of battery longevity or power. Go for the RC and you'll be much happier in the long run.

sntnsupermen131

Originally posted by rskarvan
I would buy a JCI battery...Stay away from the smaller battery companies. There really are only three: JCI, Delphi, and Exide.

huh?
I get what youre saying about the RC, good info.
where can you pick up a JCI? do you recommend JCI or do you not recommend them?
what are some other good brands?
thanks for all the info...good stuff...even for a HT guy:D
-Cody

wlrandall

JCI=Johnson Controls Inc.

Used to be known as the Globe-Union Division of JCI that made batteries. Optima, Interstate, Die Hard, Pro/Tru/Everstart are just a few.


Have to agree, JCI is about the best that can be had.

CPHILHOWER

InterState batteries are made by JCI. As well as Optima.
Chris

PoweredByDodge

my battery understanding just got turned upside down...

i was with the understanding that Globe went out of business, taking exide down the drain with them. Exide has not been avaiable for a couple of years, and then all of a sudden they're back on the market at Napa parts stores, but they dont look anything like the old Exide's, nor do they tout the cranking amps, thus i assumed the name was bought up by somebody.

I was also with the understanding that Johnson Controls produced the Die Hard as well as the Delco battery - with nothing but a label being the difference between the two.

Interstate / Optima / and the cheese ball brands (everstart / wall-start, etc etc) I was aware of.

... Either way I still prefer my energizers -- cheap, and large.

AustinKP

Welp, all that was just fine and dandy, but I'm still in the dark as to which battery I need to buy. I just know any day now, I'm going to get off work at midnight and find my battery dead and I'll be screwed. So JCI makes other brands? Which of them will be the best for me and not cost over $100 bucks? I didn't understand most of that nice explanation... Also, where do I get this killer battery locally so I don't pay $50 for shipping? I have access to Wal-Mart, Target, K-Mart, AutoZone, Checker, etc...
Thanks a ton...
-Austin

MrDHEJ

AustinKP: Sounds like your battery might be low. Pop the caps off and look at the liqued lvl. If it's below the plates just fill them up with distilled water.

I have an Optima yellow top. Ran my system "1000 watts" for 6 hours the other day at 3/4 volume at the air field. When i left, my truck started like it was just sitting.

neomagus00

then again, i run a (dying) stock battery. i played my mm6's (thats it) at volume level 1, the lowest it will go (i was studying in the car before a test). after about an hour, the battery was so low that i couldnt put the windows up. i went to class, and thankfully, it started, but it was harrowing. yellow top may become my new best friend .

PoweredByDodge

you can get a die hard at sears for $79 (850 CCA)

an energizer at pep boys $69 (900 CCA)

or an interstate megatron (800 CCA) at most any parts store -- $79

AustinKP

Originally posted by MrDHEJ
AustinKP: Sounds like your battery might be low. Pop the caps off and look at the liqued lvl. If it's below the plates just fill them up with distilled water.

I can't - I think my battery is sealed. It's about 4 or so years old, so I'm pretty sure it's just dead. So I'm just looking for a battery with a high CCA rating? Does that make it "deep cycle" so I don't ruin it by playing my stereo for a long time w/o the engine running?

PoweredByDodge

deep cycles aren't great for starting power.

how much damn audio are u running anyway?

i used to run a 1100 CCA battery *ya i know, big*, an Exide, and about 1,100 watts rms of audio with like an 80 amp alternator. didn't give me any problems.

battery lasted hell maybe 5 or 6 years before we scrapped it - was in like 3 cars. i haven't found anything over 900 cca since.

AustinKP

Originally posted by PoweredByDodge
deep cycles aren't great for starting power.
how much [dang] audio are u running anyway?

All I have is in my sig at the top... I just want a battery that will work for me, even when I expand my system so I don't have to get another battery in two years. I don't plan on ever having more than maybe 1500-2000 Watts peak when I finally get my ~150x4 amp and another mono amp ~500W for my sub.
I was just reading on the Optima website, and they recommended a deep cycle battery if you have a stereo system in your car, since deep-cycling a "starter" battery can ruin it, since it's only designed to be discharged like 3-5%. Is that just BS to make me want a yellow top?

rskarvan

There really are only 3 major battery manufactures (all large). Delphi (or, Delco), JCI, and Exide. All three produce a shi#-load of batteries and sell them under various private labels. If you buy a Diehard, you are getting one from any of the three manufacturers. Sears doesn't make batteries... they just buy & sell with a different sticker. What I would recommend is going to your local battery specialty store (Discount Battery) and asking the MANAGER for a JCI battery. Go visit the JCI website and read all about them. Get one of the batteries which contain silver in the grids. That is the best technology out there.

AustinKP

So Saturday, I finally look at my battery to see if I could find out the problem. It turns out that it isn't a sealed battery and I got the plugs off. One of the cells was almost completely empty, while the other 5 were pretty low. I filled them up and it's working MUCH better. The + connection was also very corroded, so I cleaned it off w/ baking soda, and put some anti corrosion/rust grease stuff my electrician neighbor gave me. It feels like I have more horsepower now. Is that my imagination, or could it really have an effect? Also, it reset my CD player and everything. I put the crossover back on on my Alpine 9815, but it sounds like my speakers have a ton more bass now. Could it be because I'm getting more power since I cleaned the posts?

neomagus00

i think it could be... or you messed up the xover settings . hp gain - the only way i could figure this is that now, the battery can take over some electronics duties instead of the alt, which sux power from the engine. highly unlikely, but a valid hypothesis nonetheless.

nadams

Indeed, all that could be true. The more volts your amp has, the louder, cleaner, and punchier it can get. Some amps respond more to this than others, but if your battery was really dead, you weren't getting anywhere near the 12-14 volts that usually runs through the car, since you were basically running everything off the alt.

AustinKP

I was thinking the same thing. If my alternator was working to provide all the power to the accessories, the CD player was probably just another burden. My car seems to start just a bit quicker now too.

exalted512

your car will be faster
why do you think racecars have no electronics?
takes power away from the engine
and you probably are getting better bass as well...you dont get as much bass at 11 volts than you do at 14
-Cody

neomagus00

so i should take out all my lights and it'll go faster? that's a good idea...

then again, racecars have mucho electronics, just not much that's visible. it's actually quite absurd how many sensors and chips are on board a formula one car

exalted512

well sensors and stuff use like 1/10 watt of electricity...and im sure its worth it to have that power loss than the loss of a whole engine cuz u didnt know your oil was low...
-Cody

neomagus00

true, true. would it actually be worth it to disable some of the electronics i don't use? like the heated seats, i dont need those till winter now. would it make a noticeable difference?

as a note, at least in f1, they replace most of the engine between each race. what the cost must be to do that...

exalted512

i doubt you would see any gain at all
whenever you want to race...turn off your radio and a/c and any additional electronics you might have...
power steering is something else that takes away from your power...lol
you can always disconnect that
and ABS brakes...who needs em anyway?
lol
j/k...disconnecting those would probably not be in your best interests...unless youre going down a muddy hill...then it might be better to disconnect your abs...otherwise youll never stop
-Cody

neomagus00

if i were going down a muddy hill, abs would be the least of my worries at that point. actually, the only time i activate them is in the winter... im afraid of breaking my suspension, i can brake so hard (even in wet conditions)

this reminds me of something quite interesting i once saw. my friends and i were out at the local racetrack (technically known as a 'condemned airport', but whatever) and this guy with a huge overbuilt truck rolls up. we chat for a few minutes, then he says, "watch this". he accelerates for a couple hundred feet, then slams on the brakes - and the rear end rose off the ground. he was going maybe 100 mph, so he kept it up for a couple seconds; looked like he was gonna tip over forward, it was amazingly cool to watch.

exalted512

lol...at the beach during spring break there was a guy in a blazer
old **** ghetto blazer
he went down the beach hitting the gas, slamming the brakes, hitting the gas...so on....he got his front wheels off the ground...looked cool as hell...
-Cody