Tube question for the experts

vmaxer
vmaxer Posts: 5,117
in DIY, Mods & Tweaks
Ok guys, I've been playing with tubes lately and have a question.

I have a tube CD player, Jolida and a tube pre, Odyssey Candala.

Which one is the most critical as far as tubes go??

Thanks for any help.
Pio Elete Pro 520
Panamax 5400-EX
Sunfire TGP 5
Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
PS Audio GCPH phono pre
Sunfire CG 200 X 5
Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
OPPO BDP-83 SE
SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
Ctr CS1000p
Sur - FX1000 x 4
SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

Workkout room:
Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
Onkyo TX-DS898
GFA 555
Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
Ft - SDA 1C

Not being used:
RTi 38's -4
RT55i's - 2
RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
LSI 15's
CSi40
PSW 404
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    Source imho
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,194
    edited July 2015
    I really depends on how the tubes are being utilized. I am not familiar with your particular cdp, but many times the tube is used as a buffer rather than an integral part of the circuit in cdp's and some dac's. It's been my experience when this is the case, the pre-amp is the "more" important tube piece of gear.

    The Candela is a nice unit.

    You can do like I do and get great tubes for all positions in all gear......problem solved! :)

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 5,117
    Keiko wrote: »
    heiney9 wrote: »

    You can do like I do and get great tubes for all positions in all gear......problem solved! :)

    Problem is, heiney bought up all the tubes and now there's none left. :'(;)

    He can donate a few to me then. B)
    Pio Elete Pro 520
    Panamax 5400-EX
    Sunfire TGP 5
    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
    Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
    OPPO BDP-83 SE
    SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
    Ctr CS1000p
    Sur - FX1000 x 4
    SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

    Workkout room:
    Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
    Onkyo TX-DS898
    GFA 555
    Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
    Ft - SDA 1C

    Not being used:
    RTi 38's -4
    RT55i's - 2
    RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
    LSI 15's
    CSi40
    PSW 404
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited July 2015
    heiney9 wrote: »
    I really depends on how the tubes are being utilized. I am not familiar with your particular cdp, but many times the tube is used as a buffer rather than an integral part of the circuit in cdp's and some dac's. It's been my experience when this is the case, the pre-amp is the "more" important tube piece of gear.

    The Candela is a nice unit.

    You can do like I do and get great tubes for all positions in all gear......problem solved! :)

    H9

    A lot of truth here. I have a later model Jolida that utilizes FOUR tubes, two of which are in the amplification/processing stage so not just buffering. I'm not sure what the original Jolida did with its, I believe two tubes. All I know is that you can NOTICE a difference in sound using either Jolida on an SS amp even with an SS pre-amp in the mix. There are others who've had the JD100D who could clarify what the tubes in your CDP are doing. I do believe ALL Jolidas are more than just tube buffering, though? For those with greater knowledge of schematics than I here is the internal shot of the Jolida JD100D (which is what I assume you have).


    mlobee2xsmvl.jpg



    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 5,117
    edited July 2015
    Hello, may have started that way @george daniel would have to answer.

    Here is the link to the one I bought from him - great unit.

    http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/163375/jolida-jd-100-heavily-modded-725-00

    Have it going to the Odyssey Candala then to the DNA 1.

    Thanks for the info so far!!

    Oh well, seems the photos in that link don't work any longer??
    Pio Elete Pro 520
    Panamax 5400-EX
    Sunfire TGP 5
    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
    Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
    OPPO BDP-83 SE
    SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
    Ctr CS1000p
    Sur - FX1000 x 4
    SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

    Workkout room:
    Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
    Onkyo TX-DS898
    GFA 555
    Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
    Ft - SDA 1C

    Not being used:
    RTi 38's -4
    RT55i's - 2
    RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
    LSI 15's
    CSi40
    PSW 404
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,647
    The answer is both. That said, I can't recommend tubes for your pre amp, but for the Jolida the Sylvania 5751 triple mica black plates are the cat's meow. Expect to pay top dollar for them.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,194
    edited July 2015
    All tube prices have gone up considerably. The 5751 Sylvania Black Plates are excellent as are the gray plates but they are a little more forward. I just scored for an insanely reasonable price a quad of 1964-5751Raytheon 3 mica, black plate, windmill getter, as NOS.

    Early Tung Sol's are highly underated and their 5751 bests the Sylvania (IMO). It has more air and sparkle on top as well as being a tad less bloaty in the bass, same for early 12AX7's. Highly recommended

    As a rule 12AU7/ECC82, which your Candela should use, tend to be about 20-30% less expensive than 12AX7/ECC83. In the same vein the 5814 is to a 12AU7 what a 5751 is to a 12AX7. Sylvania makes a superb 1950's JHS 5814, 3 mica, black plate , and they are reasonably priced too. Though aren't as common. They are unique in that the 3rd mica is raised up high and the getter is right on top of it. See photo.

    Sylvania-5814-Black-Plates.jpg

    Another 5814 favorite is the early-mid 50's CBS JHY-5814, 2 mica black ladder plate with tall D getter. See photo

    DSC03611-1.jpg

    Raytheon makes a few different 5814 versions as well which are superb, including a windmill getter version.

    Hope this helps

    H9

    P.s. The early long plate Euro tubes are my favorites by far, especially Hamburg Germany Valvo made tubes. There are plenty of less expensive American tubes that hold their own (some mentioned above) I have no use for currently made signal tubes since there are still so many old tubes still available.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,194
    edited July 2015
    Early Raytheon, Sylvania and Tung Sol made some superb tubes. They had some great engineers and superb quality and don't get the recognition the European's get. I have been pleasantly surprised at some of the early American tube finds.

    Another one also is CBS-Hytron and Landsdale. These companies very early on made their own tubes, but later on (starting in the late 50's) outsourced practically everything. I have a pair of 1953 or 54 (something like that) CBS-Hytron 12AX7's that rival the Euro long plates. But the true, early CBS tubes were never plentiful so don't come up too often.

    Lot's of Raytheon's, GE's, RCA's, Sylvania's all have CBS logo's on them, so you really have to know what construction to look for if they aren't dated.

    Part of the thrill for me is the hunt and finding a bargain no one else knows is there.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,647
    I had some CBS-Hytron OA2's used for voltage regulation. Very cool tube, contains radioactive gas and glows purple.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 5,117
    F1nut wrote: »
    I had some CBS-Hytron OA2's used for voltage regulation. Very cool tube, contains radioactive gas and glows purple.

    Someone needs to donate a set to me B)
    Pio Elete Pro 520
    Panamax 5400-EX
    Sunfire TGP 5
    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
    Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
    OPPO BDP-83 SE
    SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
    Ctr CS1000p
    Sur - FX1000 x 4
    SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

    Workkout room:
    Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
    Onkyo TX-DS898
    GFA 555
    Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
    Ft - SDA 1C

    Not being used:
    RTi 38's -4
    RT55i's - 2
    RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
    LSI 15's
    CSi40
    PSW 404
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 5,117
    vmaxer wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    I had some CBS-Hytron OA2's used for voltage regulation. Very cool tube, contains radioactive gas and glows purple.

    Someone needs to donate a set to me B)

    Maybe more.
    Pio Elete Pro 520
    Panamax 5400-EX
    Sunfire TGP 5
    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
    Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
    OPPO BDP-83 SE
    SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
    Ctr CS1000p
    Sur - FX1000 x 4
    SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

    Workkout room:
    Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
    Onkyo TX-DS898
    GFA 555
    Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
    Ft - SDA 1C

    Not being used:
    RTi 38's -4
    RT55i's - 2
    RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
    LSI 15's
    CSi40
    PSW 404
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    Hmmm,, OA 2,, I got some spares for my Joule
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,647
    Hat....pffft, I've got the whole suit.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited July 2015
    Let's not for get the RCA black plate triple mica 5751 tubes. IMO, they best all others. They have great tone, excellent clarity and detail and the bass is solid as a rock.

    As far as 12AX7 tubes, Brock's suggestion about the Valvo Hamburg, Germany long plate 45 degree getter is spot on. They are absolutely one fo the best 12AX7 tubes out there.

    I might also suggest the Tesla E83CC tubes (NOT ECC83 tubes, they are different). Get the early,mid to late 70's versions as they are the best ones. This is a fantastic tube, IMO. (Just be careful of fakes!!)
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,647
    vmaxer wrote: »
    Someone needs to donate a set to me B)

    Do you have a piece that uses them?

    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 5,117
    F1nut wrote: »
    vmaxer wrote: »
    Someone needs to donate a set to me B)

    Do you have a piece that uses them?

    No, sorry about that. I have the 2 items listed and a Dared MP5 only that uses tubes.
    Pio Elete Pro 520
    Panamax 5400-EX
    Sunfire TGP 5
    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
    Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
    OPPO BDP-83 SE
    SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
    Ctr CS1000p
    Sur - FX1000 x 4
    SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

    Workkout room:
    Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
    Onkyo TX-DS898
    GFA 555
    Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
    Ft - SDA 1C

    Not being used:
    RTi 38's -4
    RT55i's - 2
    RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
    LSI 15's
    CSi40
    PSW 404
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 5,117
    vmaxer wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    vmaxer wrote: »
    Someone needs to donate a set to me B)

    Do you have a piece that uses them?

    No, sorry about that. I have the 2 items listed and a Dared MP5 only that uses tubes.

    So,,,any donations for tubes that works for these??
    Pio Elete Pro 520
    Panamax 5400-EX
    Sunfire TGP 5
    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
    Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
    OPPO BDP-83 SE
    SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
    Ctr CS1000p
    Sur - FX1000 x 4
    SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

    Workkout room:
    Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
    Onkyo TX-DS898
    GFA 555
    Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
    Ft - SDA 1C

    Not being used:
    RTi 38's -4
    RT55i's - 2
    RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
    LSI 15's
    CSi40
    PSW 404
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,194
    Sorry, the tubes I use and keep are a little to spendy for donation. I have a clone of the Dared MP-5. Nice little unit......does yours use the 12AX7's? I might have a nice pair of Tungsram I could make you a deal on.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 5,117
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Sorry, the tubes I use and keep are a little to spendy for donation. I have a clone of the Dared MP-5. Nice little unit......does yours use the 12AX7's? I might have a nice pair of Tungsram I could make you a deal on.

    H9

    Yep, that is what it uses.
    Pio Elete Pro 520
    Panamax 5400-EX
    Sunfire TGP 5
    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
    Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
    OPPO BDP-83 SE
    SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
    Ctr CS1000p
    Sur - FX1000 x 4
    SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

    Workkout room:
    Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
    Onkyo TX-DS898
    GFA 555
    Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
    Ft - SDA 1C

    Not being used:
    RTi 38's -4
    RT55i's - 2
    RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
    LSI 15's
    CSi40
    PSW 404
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 5,117
    vmaxer wrote: »
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Sorry, the tubes I use and keep are a little to spendy for donation. I have a clone of the Dared MP-5. Nice little unit......does yours use the 12AX7's? I might have a nice pair of Tungsram I could make you a deal on.

    H9

    Yep, that is what it uses.

    A deal is always welcome.
    Pio Elete Pro 520
    Panamax 5400-EX
    Sunfire TGP 5
    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
    Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
    OPPO BDP-83 SE
    SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
    Ctr CS1000p
    Sur - FX1000 x 4
    SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

    Workkout room:
    Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
    Onkyo TX-DS898
    GFA 555
    Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
    Ft - SDA 1C

    Not being used:
    RTi 38's -4
    RT55i's - 2
    RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
    LSI 15's
    CSi40
    PSW 404
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • GlennDog
    GlennDog Posts: 3,120
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Sorry, the tubes I use and keep are a little to spendy for donation. I have a clone of the Dared MP-5. Nice little unit......does yours use the 12AX7's? I might have a nice pair of Tungsram I could make you a deal on.

    H9

    If Vmax passes on your offer . . . plz reach out, TY!
    AC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
    Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampizator Baltic 4 DAC
    Pre Cary SLP-05
    Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
    Mains Salk HT2-TL
    Rythmik F12
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 5,117
    GlennDog wrote: »
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Sorry, the tubes I use and keep are a little to spendy for donation. I have a clone of the Dared MP-5. Nice little unit......does yours use the 12AX7's? I might have a nice pair of Tungsram I could make you a deal on.

    H9

    If Vmax passes on your offer . . . plz reach out, TY!

    Most likely not passing.
    Pio Elete Pro 520
    Panamax 5400-EX
    Sunfire TGP 5
    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
    Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
    OPPO BDP-83 SE
    SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
    Ctr CS1000p
    Sur - FX1000 x 4
    SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

    Workkout room:
    Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
    Onkyo TX-DS898
    GFA 555
    Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
    Ft - SDA 1C

    Not being used:
    RTi 38's -4
    RT55i's - 2
    RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
    LSI 15's
    CSi40
    PSW 404
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter