Speakers or Receiver Clipping?
Flathead38
Posts: 72
Well the HK Citation receiver and the SDA 1's were playing well last night for about and hour at a decent volume.
Found one bass driver was frozen and removed it from the cabinet.
Today when I got home from work I turned everything back on at about half the volume of yesterday and in about 5 minutes the music stops. If I get close to the drivers I can hear the music muted. I turned up the volume and the drivers extend outward and then get sucked inward as far as they can go. I turned everything off quickly and waited about 30 minutes and turned the system back on and all was well, for about 5 minutes and the scenario repeated itself.
I looked at the schematics for the SDA 1's and there does not seem to be an overload switch in the crossover but instead fuses on the outside rear of the cabinet. A check with a meter showed all four were good.
Could it be the receiver shutting down? It is rated four four ohm speakers at 130 watts.
Sorry for the long post and thanks for any helpful insights.
Found one bass driver was frozen and removed it from the cabinet.
Today when I got home from work I turned everything back on at about half the volume of yesterday and in about 5 minutes the music stops. If I get close to the drivers I can hear the music muted. I turned up the volume and the drivers extend outward and then get sucked inward as far as they can go. I turned everything off quickly and waited about 30 minutes and turned the system back on and all was well, for about 5 minutes and the scenario repeated itself.
I looked at the schematics for the SDA 1's and there does not seem to be an overload switch in the crossover but instead fuses on the outside rear of the cabinet. A check with a meter showed all four were good.
Could it be the receiver shutting down? It is rated four four ohm speakers at 130 watts.
Sorry for the long post and thanks for any helpful insights.
Comments
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Found one bass driver was frozen and removed it from the cabinet.
Did you replace it or were you using the speaker without the driver?Today when I got home from work I turned everything back on at about half the volume of yesterday and in about 5 minutes the music stops. If I get close to the drivers I can hear the music muted. I turned up the volume and the drivers extend outward and then get sucked inward as far as they can go.
I'd say the problem is the receiver.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Receivers and 4 ohm speakers usually don't play well together.
Everyone says this but I've never had any issues. RTA-12B's down into the 3 ohm range at certain frequencies and even with the POS Yamaha RX-V667 I had before this Aventage I never tripped any protect modes, speaker fuses, or anything like that. EVEN during movie explosion schenanigans with both Monitor 5's wired to 4 ohm as a center and Monitor 4's for rears.
I'm not saying this statement isn't true, just that I haven't had any issues.afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
I had the same positive experience running 4 LSi15s and an LSiC off both Onkyo and Sony AVRs. Of course, other factors can come into play. For example, room size. My HT is in an 11x12 room, so it can get pretty loud without going to the max.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
I was playing the speakers with the frozen driver removed.
The receiver didn't even get warm during play time. Funny that the day before I was playing it louder, and longer and nothing happened, only when bringing the volume down did this happen! -
Flathead38 wrote: »I was playing the speakers with the frozen driver removed.
Yikes. Put the midwoofer back in and leave it unhooked at least. Make sure the + and - wires that normally go to it can't touch anything or each other. I'm not sure what model # midwoofer you have but Polk may still make a brand new replacement. Give them a call and buy when if/when you can afford it.afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
LOL. Playing a speaker with a hole in the front. I bet that sounds great.
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
I was playing the speakers with the frozen driver removed.
SDA's are basically a sealed design speaker. Playing the one speaker without the driver in place will cause the other driver(s) to flop around due to the lack of back pressure. Not a good thing.
Did you tape off the leads?The receiver didn't even get warm during play time. Funny that the day before I was playing it louder, and longer and nothing happened, only when bringing the volume down did this happen!
It's electronics, stuff like that happens all the time.
At this point you need to do two things. Find a replacement driver and have your receiver checked at the shop.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Working without a driver is why I played it at a very low volume hardly audible. And I separated the leads.
Got another driver in place and the same senario has happened. The receiver has never given me a problem, as a matter of fact I hooked them back up to my KLH'1s and it has been playing all day with no problems. Got to believe that the Citation just doesn't like the Polks, even though it is rated to drive 4 ohms. I believe if it were the speakers the fuses would have blown and they did not. -
What make amps would the jury recommend?
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Used B&K and Parasound are common budget recommendations.afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
Flathead38 wrote: »as a matter of fact I hooked them back up to my KLH'1s and it has been playing all day with no problems.
A real pair of KLH One? From yester-yesteryear?
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Not "Ones" but "1's" with the analog bass computer, from around the early eighties.
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Got another driver in place and the same senario has happened. The receiver has never given me a problem, as a matter of fact I hooked them back up to my KLH'1s and it has been playing all day with no problems. Got to believe that the Citation just doesn't like the Polks, even though it is rated to drive 4 ohms. I believe if it were the speakers the fuses would have blown and they did not.
Hmmm.....you've got some strange juju going on there.Today when I got home from work I turned everything back on at about half the volume of yesterday and in about 5 minutes the music stops. If I get close to the drivers I can hear the music muted. I turned up the volume and the drivers extend outward and then get sucked inward as far as they can go.
There is no reason I can think of for that to happen unless there is a problem with the power. Did you notice if the protection circuit came on?
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I looked for the specs on this, but didn't find much other than it's rated for 85wpc @ 8 ohms, no 4 ohm spec. Where did you see the rating for 4 ohms? Was it noted as a dynamic spec?
I also noted it uses dual trannies, which leads to the possiblity that it is not common ground, although that would be the first receiver I know of to be so. You should test that.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
The original paper work I have with the receiver indicates that it will driver one set of 4 0hm speakers. Also if you care to go over to thevintageknob.com and look up Citation Receiver, it also lists the specs.
Checked for common ground with meter set to 200 ohms and it read .1 -
Ah, thanks I did not look there. So, we have the following....
Output power :
2x 85W (8 Ohm, 20Hz...20Khz)
2x 105W (DIN 45500, 8 Ohm)
2x 130W (DIN 45500, 4 Ohm)
DIN is a German standard and really should not be used as it's a different scale. Anyway, note the DIN 4 ohm rating is only slightly more than the DIN 8 ohm. Ideally, the 4 ohm rating will be double or close to double that of the 8 ohm rating. So, what that means is the receiver doesn't have a robust enough power supply to drive a 4 ohm load by US standards and therefore only the 85wpc @ 8 ohms rating is listed. In short, you cannot use that receiver with your SDA's.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Thanks, now I understand why the recveiver was shutting down. The original Citation manual claims the unit will power two sets of 8 or 16 ohm speakers simultaneously or one set of 4 ohm, guess just not 4 ohm speakers that need a lot of power.
Now on to a search for a power supply, then the speaker mods.
I can see where this can be addicting and expensive. -
Yes it can, but the rewards are proportionate."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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Even though some receiver & amps say 4-8ohm with those speakers they can dip below 4ohms & that means problems. A guy up here bought some like those & tried to use them on a older Onkyo amp @ 150wpc & he said it wasnt cuttiing it..
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I have my eyes on a Parasound HCA1500a power amp and a Parasound P/H850 pre amp. I don't see a lot of control for tone adjustment. This is my first separates I am getting into. Is this common?
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May be a DC offset issue though In my limited experience, the amp goes either positive or negative, not both!Flathead38 wrote: »I turned up the volume and the drivers extended outward and then get sucked inward as far as they can go.
The equivalent of connecting, say several batteries in series, across your speaker terminals. Connected one way pushes the drivers out, the other sucks them in. I have an amp on my bench w/1 channel positive, the other negative.
If you have a DMM set it for DC. W/speakers disconnected, turn on your receiver and very carefully test across each channel. Under 50 milli volts is alright though difficult to improve upon.
What you described would take a voltage swing/DC offset of 20-30 or higher volts You read that right, VOLTS, not milli volts to move those drivers that much.
Good luck, hope you haven't fried your voice coils. TonySamsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work -
Well, I just want to thank everyone for their wisdom.
I took the HK receiver out of the line up and bought a Parasound HCA 1500A amp and a Parasound PHP 850 pre amp. The SDA1's are sounding great, considering they are dated 1982!
Doing research now into DYI interconnects and speaker cables.
The journey begins......... -
Doug at Douglas Connection has what you need to build your cables and ic's and he's a member here and a great guy.
http://www.douglasconnection.com/Speakers: Polk SDA-SRS xovers rebuilt by David, RDO194's, Dynamat, BH5, glued magnets, new cloth, custom aluminum terminal plates with Cardas posts and Speakon interconnect
Speaker Cables, Jumpers & Interconnect: DIY Douglas Connection
Power Amp: Sunfire Architect's Choice Series II
Preamp: Adcom GFP-750
SACD/CD: Oppo BDP-95
Tuner: Sansui TU-717
TT: Technics SL-MA1
Phono Pre: Emotiva XPS-1
Music Server: Mac Mini w/JRiver - iPad w/JRemote
DAC: Eastern Electric MiniMax Plus
Other Polks: SDA: 1A, 1C, 2B, CRS+ / Monitor: 10A, 5jr, 4 / RT5
