humidity rate and temperature

damnusernames

Hi again.

I am a musician and live in a country where temp and humidity vary wildly (from 95 to minus 35 with HR from 30% to 65% using AC)

Using heating in winter lower HR drastically.

I can't help but notice the HR has a huge impact on how well my piano sounds. This, I can observe as well on my guitars, only acoustic though as my Lespaul sounds pretty much the same, as far as I can tell.

Has anyone of you ever experienced difference in acoustics using the same set up when temp and HR fluctuate?

In other words, do you find your sound system performing better in winter (dry) or summer (humid)? If applicable to your area. Or maybe you have not noticed any difference?

I find 60% HR the best sounding for acoustic instruments.

I am genuinely interested in knowing whether that can be observed in audio as well.

damnusernames

DSkip wrote: »

I'd imagine the humidity is affecting the actual wood of the piano and changing the sound. I don't know that it would affect hifi the same way.

To be honnest, that would also be my guess. (i.e. no impact)

However, I once talked for a while with a very knowledgeable person about speakers and he told me something interesting; "perfect speced and perfect frequed response in a speaker don't always sound good. Making a speaker is an art that goes beyond stats"

So it is in a way, a bit like musical instruments.

And yes you are totally right, the HR affect the wood but also the tonality of the said wood.

On a (very) technical aspect, I would say that humidity rate changes the density of air, thus, the properties of sound travel, hence would impact the way we hear sounds.

We have all noticed on those very humid nights in summer those very distant rock concerts...

BlueFox

damnusernames wrote: »

On a (very) technical aspect, I would say that humidity rate changes the density of air, thus, the properties of sound travel, hence would impact the way we hear sounds.

Yes. This could, and probably will, affect the sound of the stereo. Of course, one needs to be very familiar with the sound of their stereo in order to detect any changes.

ken brydson

We won't know for sure until X tells us...

BlueFox

LOL. I was thinking the same thing.

F1nut

I can't help but notice the HR has a huge impact on how well my piano sounds. This, I can observe as well on my guitars, only acoustic though as my Lespaul sounds pretty much the same, as far as I can tell.

Wood can move up to 1/4" seasonally, so in high humidity wood swells and in low it shrinks. One reason wood is finished is to help limit the amount of movement. However, if the wood is only finished on one side moisture will enter or exit unabated in the unfinished side.

There are very few speakers made of solid wood and those that are, are made in such a way as to prevent or extremely limit seasonal movement, so humidity levels should have no effect.

As to the density of the air in high humidity I could see it having an effect on the speed of sound, but that's out of my field.

ken brydson

F1nut wrote: »

I can't help but notice the HR has a huge impact on how well my piano sounds. This, I can observe as well on my guitars, only acoustic though as my Lespaul sounds pretty much the same, as far as I can tell.

Wood can move up to 1/4" seasonally, so in high humidity wood swells and in low it shrinks.
.

Story of my life...

drumminman

Very dry air would also increase static electricity which can affect IC's, speaker wire, PC's etc. I've noticed that my rig sounds a little better after/during rain than when we've had a long dry spell.

Same thing with my acoustic drums. I built them using maple shells and left the interiors unsealed so that the high range would not be too prominent. When we've had a long dry spell, a week or two, and then rain they sound their best.

damnusernames

drumminman wrote: »

Very dry air would also increase static electricity which can affect IC's, speaker wire, PC's etc. I've noticed that my rig sounds a little better after/during rain than when we've had a long dry spell.

Same thing with my acoustic drums. I built them using maple shells and left the interiors unsealed so that the high range would not be too prominent. When we've had a long dry spell, a week or two, and then rain they sound their best.

I have the exact same impression... humid is good

Mikey081057

Guitars like 45-55% humidity... which is probably good for most wood...one of my acoustics which is a Taylor actually bulges in the back when the humidity is at the proper level and it flattens below 35%. I would imagine speakers like it in the same range... I have no problem maintaining the humidity here in SW FL... I actually like the humidity myself...

damnusernames

I would be very interested in auditioning different speakers using same driver setup but different wood (e.g. rosewood vs cedar vs maple). That auditioning would have to be on the same occasion (same time, same place). The wood would have to be full solid and not only laminated.

I believe that given the resonant role that wood plays in a speaker, there would be audible differences.

To F1nut: Density as a direct role in vibrations speed transmission/translation in a given material= the denser, the faster.

That property also yield the differences in acoustic wood; soft wood tending to sound more dark and warm (cedar, spruce) and denser wood more sparkling and bright (maple etc).

Wood has an anisotropic withdraw. It is not the same in all directions (oposedly to say, steel). Kiln dried wood's HR is taken down to about 15-18 % where most of the withdraw has occured. If sealed (sometimes quite toxic) that wood will mostly remain stable, but it will affect sounding properties. Now the cuts (directions, radial, tangential or crossed) are of prime importance given the use that is going to be given to a part.

It is true that wood can move to 1/4 inch yearly however, depending on the piece's size, it can be much more than that.

The problem (yet controllable) with wood is that not only is the withdraw anisotropic and essence-linked, but it is non linear (1% drop in HR will not yield the same withdraw/contraction in centimeters or % depending on the actual HR %) So at say 50 % HR content, a 1% drop (the one of the wood, not the room) might impact less than a drop from 24 to 23 %.

Taylors are GREAT guitars btw, I have been looking for an acoustic for sometimes and am just waiting for one to choose me...

I wanted to liike Guilds...but balance is off and the have changed owners/lineup too often.

Martin are like toyota to me, very good...but beige.

Some good Takamines/larivée

For me humidity (much more than temp) plays two roles, one in the woods that are used to produce the sound and one in the medium (air) that leads taht sound to my ears.

This post contain technical terms that I freely translated from my first language so apologizes of it sounds odd.

cnh

Aren't most speaker cabs made of MDF or HDF? And wouldn't that be less affected by changes in humidity, etc.? Just guessing because I'm not a DIY guy.

BlueFox

Well, "less affected" means there is still an effect. Audible? Who knows, but probably for a discerning owner.

damnusernames

cnh wrote: »

Aren't most speaker cabs made of MDF or HDF? And wouldn't that be less affected by changes in humidity, etc.? Just guessing because I'm not a DIY guy.

I am not either :-)

I believe indeed most speakers are made of mdf ro hdf.

damnusernames

BlueFox wrote: »

Well, "less affected" means there is still an effect. Audible? Who knows, but probably for a discerning owner.

When Mason & Hamlin and Kawai started making carbon fiber parts in their pianos, the dealer that did not have those brands on their floor told everyone "do you really want plastic in your piano? "

What they forget to say was that 1, carbon fiber is not plastic, 2- it is used in non resonant parts of the piano.

It is VERY dimensionaly stable. And the future is there.

That being said, a speakers uses its enclosure to modofiy and project sound as a resonant part, otherwise, the best design would be to suspend drivers on a plank of plexiglass(nice looking though...) with their backs in the air

So I believe that if well used, a solid wood would impact the sound quite a bit.

Why not make a harmony table in a speaker ? lack of knowledge? Cost? useless?

I don't know, but the question does interest me.

Cheers

OldSchoolPolk

Re. damnusernames: not to hijack the thread.....

As to carbon fiber in pianos, I've read about cellos & violins being made of CF and sounding wonderful.

I understand from other fields (bike frames, golf clubs) that CF absorbs vibrations to make the equipment feel "smoother" so maybe it's how they lay up the material to get the desired response.