Amplifiers and Preamps - Power Management or No?

msg

Hey guys,
feels like with a recent purchase of real cables I'm becoming more of a 2ch type. was never really much into full on HT, and always had a preference for music in the system configs, but now I'm really beginning to enjoy the refinements that have taken me over a year and a half to begin to realize, so I'm headed down the 2ch road for a while.

I have some adjustments underway, consolidation and rearranging my space and gear and such, so this will be the time to address some basics.

With respect to power management and protection, how does one determine whether a piece of equipment will be detrimental to the system performance? Is it worth putting "power protection" in place?

For specific consideration of this 2ch system, I'll be using:

• Parasound HCA-3500 (independent power supplies)
• Parasound Halo P5
• Polk 2.3TL speakers

I'm considering using the Panamax M5300-PM
http://www.panamax.com/Products/A-V-Components/M5300-PM.php


Apparently the high current outlets in this unit use a low impedance noise filtration circuit that aren't supposed to limit current to equipment powered by these outlets. It's rated at 15A.

I've picked a couple of these up on refurb from time to time, and have them in use in a couple of other systems. These do seem specced for home theater - dehr - so not sure what this means for 2ch use, or whether it will undermine performance in any noticeable manner.

I'm considering having a 20A circuit or two delivered to the new setup location. I've seen a few posts around that say to connect amps directly to the wall, but I'm a little wary of this, having had surge protection drilled in my head since a kid. granted, I've heard a few stories over the years indicating that surge protection doesn't really work anyway, so...

If this Panamax unit is no good for the application, I'd be interested to hear the perspectives on why.
And if power management is still a good idea, can you guys recommend something that would be a better fit? Perhaps the in-wall surge protection outlets? Would these be better, or still not recommended?

Emlyn

I wouldn't be concerned about running any preamp with the Panamax but would try an amp as current happy as the HCA-3500 both with it and without it to see if I could hear any differences. As you know it has two power cords and would have to occupy both high current outlets. I run a Classe Model 25 and Parasound A21 through the non power regenerating power outlets on a PS Audio P1000 AC regenerator, which is huge. No problem with that. I have noticed a significant drop off in performance in the past when using a high current amp with the "high current" outlets in any Monster power center.

I would recommend using a good aftermarket power cord from the Panamax conditioner to the wall outlet whatever you end up doing. My guess is the HCA-3500 will work best straight to the wall outlets.

Power conditioners have saved gear for my many times. Not because of surges but because of over and under voltage situations during storms.

msg

Emlyn wrote: »

I wouldn't be concerned about running any preamp with the Panamax but would try an amp as current happy as the HCA-3500 both with it and without it to see if I could hear any differences. As you know it has two power cords and would have to occupy both high current outlets. I run a Classe Model 25 and Parasound A21 through the non power regenerating power outlets on a PS Audio P1000 AC regenerator, which is huge. No problem with that. I have noticed a significant drop off in performance in the past when using a high current amp with the "high current" outlets in any Monster power center.

ooooh, really.
how did this performance drop manifest itself?
I wonder if this is what I'm experiencing with an existing 2205. guess there's a quick test for this.

just had a quick look at the PS Audio P1000
so, the non-regenerating outlets on your PS Audio - is this, in essence, a direct connection to the wall, for intents and purposes, just with filtering?
is the AC regeneration = conditioning?

I would recommend using a good aftermarket power cord from the Panamax conditioner to the wall outlet whatever you end up doing. My guess is the HCA-3500 will work best straight to the wall outlets.

Power conditioners have saved gear for my many times. Not because of surges but because of over and under voltage situations during storms.

good stuff, thanks.

Emlyn

I was using a B&K 7 channel amp at the time through a Monster HTS5100. The result was less bass impact and reduced clarity in treble. I still have the HTS5100 and use it for lower current gear. It does a good job of filtering for source components.

On the PS1000, PS Audio uses pretty robust connections internally which is probably better than what's in the wall outlet so I think it doesn't degrade anything. Filtering is also applied as it is with one of their old model power port outlets. AC regeneration is taking line voltage, converting it to DC, then back to AC at a fixed and consistent voltage. It's basically a 100lb transformer. There's a Panamax that does the same thing at a lower capacity. I think it's the 5400 model.

BlueFox

I had that Panamax in my HT, until I replaced it with a Shunyata Hydra AV. It was okay for over/under voltage protection, but don't expect much in the way of noise removal, at least no where near Shunyata level noise filtering.

One day, out of curiousity, I hooked my two channel amps up to it, and it started humming.

It is an okay starter unit, and does provide a level of protection from surges.

msg

Emlyn wrote: »

I was using a B&K 7 channel amp at the time through a Monster HTS5100. The result was less bass impact and reduced clarity in treble. I still have the HTS5100 and use it for lower current gear. It does a good job of filtering for source components.

On the PS1000, PS Audio uses pretty robust connections internally which is probably better than what's in the wall outlet so I think it doesn't degrade anything. Filtering is also applied as it is with one of their old model power port outlets. AC regeneration is taking line voltage, converting it to DC, then back to AC at a fixed and consistent voltage. It's basically a 100lb transformer. There's a Panamax that does the same thing at a lower capacity. I think it's the 5400 model.

oh, no way, man, that's exactly what I'm experiencing with the HCA-2205 I'm currently using with one of these - lack of proper bass and a bit muddy up top. the unit the 2205 is on is an M5400, coincidentally; I may have something different than what you're talking about though; the one I have is nowhere near the build of that PS Audio, if I'm looking at the correct one (is yours the PS Audio P1000, or is there a PS1000 as well?)

interesting design on the 1000. thanks for that explanation.

I'll plug in to the wall and see what happens. this sound quality issue had me thinking the 2205 is just tired and needs a refresh. that may also be true, but it could simply be power related.

BlueFox wrote: »

I had that Panamax in my HT, until I replaced it with a Shunyata Hydra AV. It was okay for over/under voltage protection, but don't expect much in the way of noise removal, at least no where near Shunyata level noise filtering.

One day, out of curiousity, I hooked my two channel amps up to it, and it started humming.

It is an okay starter unit, and does provide a level of protection from surges.

dang. yeah, the M5400 does hum sometimes. it's intermittent. actually, now that I think about it, I haven't heard it in a while. I read a while back that some of them did that, while some didn't. meh.

I'll do some reading on the pieces you guys have mentioned. Em - that P1000 looks pretty serious. The Shunyata seems no slouch either. These may end up being wish-list pieces for me down the road a ways.

If I were to go wall-direct for the amp(s), should I be looking at surge outlets, or just go straight in? I think @rednedtugent has a thread going on this right now, too. my question was similar, but different enough that I thought it best to start a new thread, but here I may be looking for the same solution he is.

Emlyn

Sorry for the typo. It is the P1000. The 1000 refers to the amount of continuous watts it can provide to components connected to it.

msg

very nice.

Joey_V

Be mindful of limitations of equipment such as power management equipment. They can be good or bad. I would think that a well designed piece would be beneficial.

msg

thanks for all the info and feedback guys.
I've decided to try the older PS Audio UPC-200

headrott

Probably much more expensive, but I definately recommend Equi=Tech balanced power conditioners. They are well worth the money (especially used).

http://www.equitech.com/

msg

Cool, thanks, I'll have a look for maybe down the road.

mrbiron

msg wrote: »

thanks for all the info and feedback guys.
I've decided to try the older PS Audio UPC-200

That's a great little product. I have one and love it. If i could find anther, i'd equally love that one too!

tonyb

I'm using the PS Audio Quintet, quiet as a church mouse. Mainly for the amount of plugs it has and I can run the cable signal into it.

msg

mrbiron wrote: »

That's a great little product. I have one and love it. If i could find anther, i'd equally love that one too!

tonyb wrote: »

I'm using the PS Audio Quintet, quiet as a church mouse. Mainly for the amount of plugs it has and I can run the cable signal into it.

seems like everyone enjoys the PS Audio or Shunyata gear. good stuff. curious to see how this works out.