The future of streaming?

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  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,617
    edited April 2016
    tonyb wrote: »
    LMAO

    Nobody needs to prove anything. Either I prove things do matter, or you prove they don't ?

    Audio is an interactive sport, takes involvement, not conjecture or baseless opinions. As usual, those that don't play on a certain level of audio can't digest why there are levels above what they are used to. Dive in, get involved, go listen, have fun. Whats not to get ?

    CD quality may be fine for you, then rock on, but others with a more refined system may want to indulge in better quality streaming services. Which is what this technology hopes to bring about. Win-win in my book.

    Yes, this appears to be software driven, and to take advantage of it, you'd need a dac who has licensed the software, or whatever piece your streaming to. Who knows what streaming services will charge also. Bottom line is, more money all around.

    Sorry with all due respect, you are acting as if there is some given that higher than CD quality sounds much better or can even be discerned.

    You frequent audio forums, and I am sure you realize it is a highly contested subject.
    Claiming CD quality is subpar is one thing, but when not aware of the source, I have seen no evidence to back up the claims.

    http://www.mcelhearn.com/well-crafted-study-shows-listeners-cannot-distinguish-between-cd-quality-and-high-resolution-music-files/

    This is interesting reading, and puts the topic under another light.

    I know it is standard practice to question someones ears, system or how a test was done, any time there is an outcome one does not like, but I think the above test says a good bit.

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  • tonybtonyb Posts: 32,479
    Of course it's contested, mostly by those who never heard it on a higher end system. Same goes for most things audio related, finding 100% uniformity almost never happens. Still some just don't have the hearing ability, and that's just fine and dandy also.

    ....and so what, audio isn't a race, nor is it about who has the most expensive stuff. It's about enjoying the music and that can mean different things to different people. Is that so hard to understand ? Is it also hard to swallow that some just play on a different level than you...or myself ?

    I know when I grow up, I want to be Ray....with Rich's DIY abilities.....and Joey's wallet. :)
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  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 10,708
    tonyb wrote: »
    I know when I grow up, I want to be Ray....with Rich's DIY abilities.....and Joey's wallet. :)
    And my devastating good looks.riv3t3b2vr1p.jpg

  • tonybtonyb Posts: 32,479
    LOL, yeah....if I want to attract sparrows. Wouldn't mind your accent though, pretty cool
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  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,617
    edited April 2016
    tonyb wrote: »
    Of course it's contested, mostly by those who never heard it on a higher end system. Same goes for most things audio related, finding 100% uniformity almost never happens. Still some just don't have the hearing ability, and that's just fine and dandy also.

    ....and so what, audio isn't a race, nor is it about who has the most expensive stuff. It's about enjoying the music and that can mean different things to different people. Is that so hard to understand ? Is it also hard to swallow that some just play on a different level than you...or myself ?

    I know when I grow up, I want to be Ray....with Rich's DIY abilities.....and Joey's wallet. :)

    Please carefully really read what I linked to.

    System cost and listening experience alone are not an indicator of being able to determine high res from CD.

    It is a very interesting read.

    You are making an old argument that anyone not agreeing with you, has simply never heard a good enough system or just can not hear what you do.

    You are leaving no room for any other conclusion.

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  • tonybtonyb Posts: 32,479
    Nobody said "alone". We all hear differently and that simply puts too much sway into whats right or wrong.
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  • tratlifftratliff Posts: 1,060
    I have come to the conclusion that this thread will be closed in the next few days.

    Thanks Tony because it can't be K_M.
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  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,617
    tonyb wrote: »
    Nobody said "alone". We all hear differently and that simply puts too much sway into whats right or wrong.

    I am truly not trying to be argumentive, but a lot of audio things simply come off that way.

    Someone can truly believe everything they say they hear, yet at times, be totally unable to back it up, when they are not aware of what is being used.

    We do not just hear differently, but bias and expectation, colour our judgment at times.
    I remember walking into a store, hearing a great sounding system playing a song I really loved, and when I found where it was, it was literally a $300.00 shelf system.......
    It all of the sudden did not "sound"so good anymore.

    just sayin, it ain't always the hearing and the system, it is what we think or expect!
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  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,148
    tonyb wrote: »
    Audio is an interactive sport, takes involvement, not conjecture or baseless opinions. As usual, those that don't play on a certain level of audio can't digest why there are levels above what they are used to. Dive in, get involved, go listen, have fun. Whats not to get ?

    Like a broken record Tony..........you can say it until you are blue in the face and still they will rail against it.

    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • erniejadeerniejade Posts: 5,382
    I know the name of a good ear doctor.... just saying
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  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,617
    heiney9 wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    Audio is an interactive sport, takes involvement, not conjecture or baseless opinions. As usual, those that don't play on a certain level of audio can't digest why there are levels above what they are used to. Dive in, get involved, go listen, have fun. Whats not to get ?

    Like a broken record Tony..........you can say it until you are blue in the face and still they will rail against it.

    Not really. You are both missing the point.

    Why is there very little actual proof, even those with extensive experience (recording engineers, musicians, audiophiles and reviewers ) and good systems in telling high res apart from CD, when they are not aware of which is which?


    That is a valid question.

    Did you actually read the link I posted?


    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
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  • tonybtonyb Posts: 32,479
    Point taken Ern, biases are certainly a part of the equation also, but like I said....so what. As long as YOU hear what you hear and like it, what else matters ?
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  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,617
    lightman1 wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    I know when I grow up, I want to be Ray....with Rich's DIY abilities.....and Joey's wallet. :)
    And my devastating good looks.riv3t3b2vr1p.jpg

    Is that really you?
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Electro Voice EV-SIX
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
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    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
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  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,148
    edited April 2016
    K_M I can claim the same examples you site only with the opposite reaction. I thought I was listening to a standard FLAC file, but it turns out it sounded "off" compared to what I would normally hear....viola, I was playing an MP3 (I do have some mixed in on my music server). See it didn't sound the same to me as the FLAC file.

    Also, I had assumed a friend was using his high end amp and pre-amp, again playing favorite, familiar songs. After about the 3rd song I told him there was something missing from his rig, it just sounded off..........come to find out he was using an AVR instead of his normal rig. His rig is in a closet so I had no idea.

    So you see it goes both ways.

    Everything matters

    H9
    Post edited by heiney9 on
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 10,708
    K_M wrote: »
    lightman1 wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    I know when I grow up, I want to be Ray....with Rich's DIY abilities.....and Joey's wallet. :)
    And my devastating good looks.riv3t3b2vr1p.jpg

    Is that really you?

    Unfortunately.
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,148
    edited April 2016
    Biases are part of the equation, but you can train yourself to minimize those biases. You can minimize those biases with experience. And certainly we all like what we like. I am a tube guy, always will be, some don't care for it and never will. It's not a right or wrong position.

    Better than cd quality is available and it makes a difference. Perhaps not on a lesser system, but certainly on systems that can exploit the higher resolution and to those who can hear and appreciate the higher resolution.

    K-M, prove to me I don't hear what I hear?

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 10,708
    Hey H9! If she wins can have your tubes?
  • ken brydsonken brydson Posts: 7,819
    lightman1 wrote: »
    K_M wrote: »
    lightman1 wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    I know when I grow up, I want to be Ray....with Rich's DIY abilities.....and Joey's wallet. :)
    And my devastating good looks.riv3t3b2vr1p.jpg

    Is that really you?

    Unfortunately.

    Beard is epic though ..
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  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,617
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Biases are part of the equation, but you can train yourself to minimize those biases. You can minimize those biases with experience. And certainly we all like what we like. I am a tube guy, always will be, some don't care for it and never will. It's not a right or wrong position.

    Better than cd quality is available and it makes a difference. Perhaps not on a lesser system, but certainly on systems that can exploit the higher resolution and to those who can hear and appreciate the higher resolution.

    K-M, prove to me I don't hear what I hear?

    H9

    Great post. Lot of valid points!

    whoa there, do not be so sure!
    I will have a witty comeback in a bit, sorry have a close relative in surgery this very minute, kinda tense.
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
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    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,617
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Biases are part of the equation, but you can train yourself to minimize those biases. You can minimize those biases with experience. And certainly we all like what we like. I am a tube guy, always will be, some don't care for it and never will. It's not a right or wrong position.

    Better than cd quality is available and it makes a difference. Perhaps not on a lesser system, but certainly on systems that can exploit the higher resolution and to those who can hear and appreciate the higher resolution.

    K-M, prove to me I don't hear what I hear?

    H9

    Great post. Lot of valid points!

    whoa there, do not be so sure!
    I will have a witty comeback in a bit, sorry have a close relative in surgery this very minute, kinda tense.
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Electro Voice EV-SIX
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 44,943
    Prove it!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 11,428
    Like I mentioned before
    My door is open
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  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,617
    Sorry for seeming argumentive, things not going well..............
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Electro Voice EV-SIX
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • BlueBirdMusicBlueBirdMusic Registered User Posts: 1,234
    You can always find bigger rabbits and better sounding high resolution music!

    About three weeks about, I saw the rabbit which is from Scotland, and I was mesmerized by the sound of the Steely Dan tracks (2.0 and 5.1).

    qvukg1m1s7zd.jpg

    wjkqbewptulk.jpg
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  • steveinazsteveinaz Posts: 19,464
    edited April 2016
    Some people read, some people experience. One requires trust in the source, the other finds out for themself in the real world.

    I've never been a "prove it" guy; I simply give my opinion based on my personal experiences--I couldn't care less if my observations align with someone elses.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amplifier: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: PSB Imagine T2 - Cables: Kimber Hero XLR; Kimber 8VS Bi-Wire; DH Labs D-75 dig coaxial
  • steveinazsteveinaz Posts: 19,464
    tonyb wrote: »
    Point taken Ern, biases are certainly a part of the equation also, but like I said....so what. As long as YOU hear what you hear and like it, what else matters ?

    TRUE stuff. Perception is EVERYTHING in this hobby. It's like trying to wear clothes you HATE, even though everyone around you says you look great in them.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amplifier: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: PSB Imagine T2 - Cables: Kimber Hero XLR; Kimber 8VS Bi-Wire; DH Labs D-75 dig coaxial
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