B&W PM1 in the house
Joey_V
Posts: 8,552
So we got the PM1 in da house! Lookin' good... Next to the big dogs.
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
Comments
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Mocha side panels.. Matches my wood floor. YOu can see how shiny the side panels are, it's like a mirror.
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
So - how do they sound??
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
Why are all my pictures sideways... gotta fix them. Stupid iPhone.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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when I click on them it turns them right side up, BTW Congrats! looking sharp!2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge
HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD -
Oh man! I auditioned those last year and was truly impressed. Too much money for me though. Settled on a pair of cdm1nt and cdm fat. Very nice speakers in their own right, but no PM1s. Congrats!
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I admit, they are nice.... very nice.
And I think they look very art deco.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Very nice Joey.2 ChannelTurntable - VPI Classic 2/Ortofon 2M BlueAmplification - Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II, Parks Audio Budgie PhonoSpeakers - GoldenEar Triton 17.2 Home TheaterDenon AVR-X3300W; Rotel RMB-1066; Klipsch RP-280F's, Klipsch RP-450C, Polk FXi3's, Polk RC60i; Dual SVS PB 2000's; BenQ HT2050; Elite Screens 120"Man CaveTurntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado GoldAmplification - Dared SL2000a, McCormack DNA 0.5 DeluxeCD: Cambridge AudioSpeakers - Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary; LSiM 703; SDA 2A
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Almost bought a pair of those myself about a year ago. They are the only b&w speaker worth owning imo - no offense meant to you previous purchase.
A/B'd the PM1 against the 805 Diamond - it was instant switching and very easy to compare the 2. It was me and 2 of my brothers and a friend. PM1 was no contest against the 805 Diamond. The 802 Diamond is far superior even so.
But at the price point, the PM1 do shine. It is very nice and very good within its parameters. Crazy imaging. Crazy.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Almost bought a pair of those myself about a year ago. They are the only b&w speaker worth owning imo - no offense meant to you previous purchase.
A/B'd the PM1 against the 805 Diamond - it was instant switching and very easy to compare the 2. It was me and 2 of my brothers and a friend. PM1 was no contest against the 805 Diamond. The 802 Diamond is far superior even so.
But at the price point, the PM1 do shine. It is very nice and very good within its parameters. Crazy imaging. Crazy.
Different strokes and all. You MIGHT be able to pay me to sit down and listen to some B&W's. I just haven't ever heard anything that didn't make me want to put cotton in my ears. That's why I look forward to hearing your rig sometime. Who knows if It'll sway me or not, but I'd like to give it a shot.
Yeah, will give it a shot. Give me time and I'll get it ready.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Almost bought a pair of those myself about a year ago. They are the only b&w speaker worth owning imo - no offense meant to you previous purchase.
A/B'd the PM1 against the 805 Diamond - it was instant switching and very easy to compare the 2. It was me and 2 of my brothers and a friend. PM1 was no contest against the 805 Diamond. The 802 Diamond is far superior even so.
But at the price point, the PM1 do shine. It is very nice and very good within its parameters. Crazy imaging. Crazy.
Different strokes and all. You MIGHT be able to pay me to sit down and listen to some B&W's. I just haven't ever heard anything that didn't make me want to put cotton in my ears. That's why I look forward to hearing your rig sometime. Who knows if It'll sway me or not, but I'd like to give it a shot.
Btw, Skip, if you have to put cotton in your ears with BWs, you haven't heard a good set up yet.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Update:
Sound
PM1 sounds very good. I think that the highs are a little bit sharper than on the diamonds but the midrange is a little bit more "muted" relative to the diamonds. Less open sounding, but a little more forgiving overall. I think in the grand scheme of things - a very good 2 way monitor. Good bass for something its size. Definitely hits its price point in terms of overall sound quality.
Looks
Can't say much more than the pictures... it looks fantastic. The mocha side panels and stands are really good looking. Well made too. I was looking at the seams to see if there was a ripple in the veneer and so far so good. The rubber surrounds across the baffle and top and rear of the speaker looks very nice... it does scratch though, the leather on the 802 diamonds are a little more forgiving to wear and tear.
The stands are very well made. Interesting that we had a recent thread about poor US quality stands, but these stands are just the opposite. Very well made and very heavy. There are allen wrench screws that hold the speaker to the stands, coupling them.
I think each speaker with stand probably weighs 60 pounds.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Some kids get all the cool toys.
"Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
Your review baffles me. I can't stand the house B&W sound for the characteristics you describe about the pm1. The pm1 was the antithesis of the house sound for me.
It's not hard to see. From my stand point, your view point on the BW house sound is a muted midrange with piercing highs. From my stand point, the BW house sound is correct midrange with highs just right with good gear (not even "right" gear but just "good" gear.... having to accommodate a pair of speakers with the "right" gear makes it seem like you are trying to compensate for a deficiency).
The PM1 to me, is as you say - the antithesis. The midrange is more muted and laid back - giving a warmer sound. But if you listen closely, the highs are still of the pre-diamond... there is a sharpness to it that I don't find readily audible on the diamonds - the tips of the highs are a bit sharper... easily detectable when listening for sibilance.
It coincides with your thoughts, Skip. With the exception that you find the highs on all BW to be "cotton in the ear" painful. That's where we disagree.
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Some kids get all the cool toys.
Should've seen the wife when she came home from work.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
No way to incorporate a wristwatch/Mercedes/beach into the B&W pics ??
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Those Pioneers are nice for the $$. Anyway, onto those B&W's...
I admit that I've never been a fan of how B&W voices their loudspeakers. They possess a very "Look at me, look at what I can do" character. Sure, this kinda presentation will appeal to audiophiles who covet aural fireworks, but to me, the tone is off. It's all very neat, crisp, and totally fake sounding to my ears.
That being said, the PM1's are a sharp departure from the B&W norm. They are rolled off, warm, and present music in a way that gives the listener a very introspective experience. Some people will prefer this kinda coloration, others will not.
Anyway, I think Joey, for the most part, understands the character of the PM1's - despite the fact his Cary gear is doing them NO favors at all. After all, the PM1's are current hogs that thirst for linear solid-state juice, and not a pair of super warm, super rolled-off sounding Cary tube amps. Still, I doubt hearing them even at their best will convince our spoiled, bling-loving Polkie to replace his 802's with em'. That's OK though. I wouldn't either.
As an aside: I want to make it clear that even though B&W may not be my audio huckleberry, I nonetheless have a lot of respect for the brand. In fact, years ago, I was tasked to evaluate a pair of their CM9's. All personal bias aside, I gotta say... B&W should be proud of those speakers. They are some of the most well-rounded transducers that I've come across for that particular price range.
Spoiled, bling loving? Hahaha.... that's the best thing I've been called this week.
Nah, they're never meant to replace the 802, it was meant to be in some other room, although I'm not sure which. I have plans and these little guys are trying to derail my master plan.
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
No way to incorporate a wristwatch/Mercedes/beach into the B&W pics ??
That would be something....Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
I have heard the pm1, and the 805D. On this one I am going to agree with JoeyV. The 805's did sound much cleaner and had a bigger soundstage as well as a cleaner mid. BUT, the store I heard them at had a terrible setup. Without hearing them oustide of the bad store setup, I have to pick the 805D but, it also has a bigger cost with them.
My choice might change hearing them at home or anyone's home vs that setup.
Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's. -
People's idea of the new BW Diamonds are based on the old BW sound. They are very good and very clean. Much moreso than their price suggests. I agree with you 100%, the 805 Diamonds are far superior to the PM1.
If you have a good setup and a good room, the Diamonds will reward you. If not, it's piss poor. I have heard a full Rotel setup running a pair of 803 Diamonds... I almost walked out of the room.I have heard the pm1, and the 805D. On this one I am going to agree with JoeyV. The 805's did sound much cleaner and had a bigger soundstage as well as a cleaner mid. BUT, the store I heard them at had a terrible setup. Without hearing them oustide of the bad store setup, I have to pick the 805D but, it also has a bigger cost with them.
My choice might change hearing them at home or anyone's home vs that setup.
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
People's idea of the new BW Diamonds are based on the old BW sound. They are very good and very clean. Much moreso than their price suggests. I agree with you 100%, the 805 Diamonds are far superior to the PM1.
If you have a good setup and a good room, the Diamonds will reward you. If not, it's piss poor. I have heard a full Rotel setup running a pair of 803 Diamonds... I almost walked out of the room.I have heard the pm1, and the 805D. On this one I am going to agree with JoeyV. The 805's did sound much cleaner and had a bigger soundstage as well as a cleaner mid. BUT, the store I heard them at had a terrible setup. Without hearing them oustide of the bad store setup, I have to pick the 805D but, it also has a bigger cost with them.
My choice might change hearing them at home or anyone's home vs that setup.
The dealer should of had the Classe gear on the 800s. Rotel is good up to a point, but the 800s need that next level of power (Rotel, B&W and Classe all make up the same group call B&W Group).
I got this email March 16th, too bad because people liked these speakers.
Not to sure if the CM6 or 805 would be the "replacement" version of this product. The 805 does sound great.
PM1 Nearly Gone!
Dear XXXX,
This is to inform you that we are phasing out the PM-1. As a truly unique “niche” model the PM-1 found a lot of enthusiastic takers, but the CM Series 2, and specifically the CM-6, has become most Bowers & Wilkins’ dealers go-to offering in the price class. Under ordinary circumstances, we have about 1 month left of PM-1 in stock – but this being a “special” speaker (it’s a personal favorite), we expect this last call announcement may accelerate the sell-out. Move quickly to avoid disappointment.
We are already out of the PM-1 stands, and you have my apologies for the lack of notice there. You can use the CM stand (FS CM-S2) or even the STAV-24 as substitutes.
Thank you for all you do to support Bowers & Wilkins.
Regards,
Doug Henderson
President
B&W Group North America
B&W CM9Classé Sigma -
Sad to see it discontinue. Almost makes me want them moreMagico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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PM1s are one of those speakers that look so good. One of the rare ones where the speaker actually looks good with the cloth grills on. Very fancy. The grill appears to be framed in aluminum too.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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At the price point for new bookies, the PM1 is darn good. I am shocked they are going to stop them if they are selling so good.Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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Yep I'm warming up to these little monstersMagico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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Based on your comments in this thread I conclude that I have a similar taste for speakers. I liked PM1 and its musicality. The local dealer has two pairs left but even at discounted price its still a bit expensive for me. Any bookshelves suggestion for alternatives that are musical, have correct timbre of instruments and are not midrange invasive as many speakers today are. I also cannot tolerate any midrange coloration.
I was hoping on KEF LS50, but they left me underwhelmed (maybe too neutral) and still sounded a bit mid intensive (forward) for my taste.
I lately auditioned MA Silver bookshelves (OK, but still too analytical and sometimes lacking dynamics in vocals), Sonus Faber Venere 2.0 (very good, but a step lower than PM1, with lower mids a bit busy/reverberant for my taste), PM1 (sounded just right and very different from othe B&W models), LS50, KEF R300 (sounded pretty good to me, but I have to travel 500km forth and back to buy them), CA Aeromax (very decent but too rolled last octave), B&W 685S2, CM5, 686S2 (all three unacceptably forward and with often wrong timbre), Gauder Akustik Arcona 40 (too inneficient, but great mids and highs)
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Agree sharbatgula, pm1 are special. Would love add it to my collectionMagico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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I had an I home demo of the kef ls50. Darn good speaker for the money but I thought it got real ringy sounding when pushed a hair and a bit to fwd. For my taste also. . There is a few pm1 on ebay that has some bumps for a reasonable price if you dont mind a little road rash.
Not to derail this thread but, I thought the psb t2 got the mid and hights right. Not sure if of you have a dealer or can find a used set in your neck of the woods @sharbatgula ? But its worth a listen.Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's. -
Thanks Ernie,
A local dealer has a few PSB's, I'll check if they have the T2's. -
I absolutely love everything B&W makes. I think their speakers are superior to most others.
The Diamonds are incredibly detailed fast and very accurate. They sound like real music when powered properly and calibrated into a room. Amazing what they can do.
The Pm1's are a beautiful refined speaker that calls for hours and hours of listening. They are very pleasing to listen to if you like accurate true to the music bookshelf speakers.
As with all B&W speakers , they require at least 40 hours of break in time before you can seriously listen to them. Out of the box they sound thin but still show how refined they are. But once they get current flowing to them for a given amount of time, you start to realize how damn good they really are.
Congrats man, it's a step I plan on taking one day.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
I agree mantis. I am a big BW fan as of late. The diamonds are very special.I absolutely love everything B&W makes. I think their speakers are superior to most others.
The Diamonds are incredibly detailed fast and very accurate. They sound like real music when powered properly and calibrated into a room. Amazing what they can do.
The Pm1's are a beautiful refined speaker that calls for hours and hours of listening. They are very pleasing to listen to if you like accurate true to the music bookshelf speakers.
As with all B&W speakers , they require at least 40 hours of break in time before you can seriously listen to them. Out of the box they sound thin but still show how refined they are. But once they get current flowing to them for a given amount of time, you start to realize how damn good they really are.
Congrats man, it's a step I plan on taking one day.
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
