Will Vintage Polk Speakers Last Forever?

stevecramer2

To tell you the truth I've read and have listened to some really outrageous claims on the longevity for the vintage (raw) Polk Audio speaker. (SDA, RTA, Monitor series)

For my 2 cents, is there anyway to verify the glues use to hold things together is better at Polk? Maybe something is use or taken from one of those mystics native Mexican plants and flora?

I’ve never seem or heard of any report by or from Polk Audio (PA) that claims their rubber is protected from the harmful effects of ozone, sunlight, heat, cold, cigarettes smoke?

I’ve never seem or heard of any report by or from PA that claims their metals are protected from corrosion, impurities, dissimilar metal problems, production issues, etc.

I’ve never seem or heard of any report by or from PA that claims their paper cones or the coating are not susceptible to long term vibrations, heat, cold, humidity or to any of the above problems.

I own 4 sets of PA speakers right now and enjoy them immensely but when someone claims their 1979 RTA 12 sounds as good as the day they got them…I’ve got to snicker and hope they are giving me a little wink as they are pulling my leg!

The point: even excellent speaker systems need to be replaced at some point; you the listener make the decision of course but don't try to convince the rest of us: it sounds good.

But people and in particular sellers of vintage PA speakers states ‘their’ Polk’s last for 20, 30 years or forever; is laughable and to me is illogical and surely must be really trying to sell you something? Wacky weed in their past may also play into this dreamlike state:-)

spc

F1nut

Steve,

The number one thing that fails in most speakers are the foam surrounds and quess what, Polk doesn't use foam. If you use common sense, keep your speakers out of direct sunlight, keep your house at reasonable temperatures though out the year and don't overdrive them, why shouldn't they last 30+ years? There are plenty of speakers that age and older that are still pumping out the tunes like the first day they were hooked up. WTF does cigarette smoke have to do with speakers? Nothing, that's what.

There is absolutely no reason a 30+ year old speaker should sound worse than a 1 year old speaker, in fact it may even sound better. The oldest SDA's that I own are 15 years old, I'll put them up against your newer ones anytime and I'll be the one snickering, "I told you so!"

Having been to Polk's HQ and seen first hand how they torture speakers before releasing them you can rest assured that your newer Polk's will last a very, very long time too. They'll never sound as good as my SDA's. How do I know that? Simple, I have listened to the newer Polk's and can say without a doubt that Polk hasn't made a better speaker since the SDA line. Perhaps you should have listened to a pair of RTA, Monitor or SDA's before posting your troll babble, eh!?!

VR3

Heck, I'd own an old SDA even if it only lasted a day. A 24 hour smerk would be worth it

Tour2ma

They're not going to last forever...

I have no reason to live...

No wait... I can hoard 2000's and 6503's... WooHoo

sc2,
Make you a deal. You keep your ears off my Polks, and I'll keep my ears of yours...

madmax

Unfortunately I believe they are close to the end of their life span.

The reason is that lately some of the earliest polks made are becoming damaged in shipment. The center pole piece in the magnets of the midbass drivers are letting go because of the age of the glue. This locks the cone in place when they receive a significant jar.

Luckily polk still offers a replacement driver.

I believe within the next 10 years the pole pieces will begin letting go even on older models which have been sitting stationary for the past several years.

As for sound, I believe they probably sound better today than they did when they were new.

So what do we do about this problem?? Polk?? Make some new freakin SDAs!!!

madmax

RuSsMaN

My 'Dickeyville' era Monitor 7a's, circa early 1978, are still playing as good or better than anything I own - and yes, with the original factory installed drivers.

I don't see any reason why, if they are not subject to electrical, physical, or environmental abuse, that a future grandchild couldn't enjoy them one day as I do now, long after I'm worm food.

Now I don't throw snowballs at them in winter, set them out on the asphalt with the grilles off in the late summer Texas heat, or snuff my Marlboro's out on the surrounds - so your mileage may vary of course.

Cheers,
Russ

hotwheelman

Alas our crys and pleas fall on deaf ears, we can only hope that someday they will hear us and the team will at least put out a limited edition model for us. Also would not hurt to have them personally signed by matt as an added bonus. I think the older polks will fair just fine as long as they are not jarred in transit while on their sides or god forbid standing up in the delivery truck.

It seems to me that they would fair better to be transported on their backs to keep the damaging vibration at a minium. Why could a body not pull each midbass out and put down some kind of adhesive between the basket and the plate with the pole piece? Would this not help to keep a good bond between them and keep them cookin for years to come?

danger boy

i recently purchased a minty pair of Monitor 7b's. they couldn't look or sound any better for their age. The look brand new. I will take care of them as well as the person who i purchased them from. I know that i'll get many more years of use out of them

But yeah. even with regular normal use.. everything will eventually need to be replaced.

FYI: I drive a 1970 Ford F100 super sport truck to work every day.. i drive that truck much harder than I do my speakers. and it's still going strong. that's a 34 yr old vehicle. thru mud, snow, rain, sun, and it's not a beater either.

stevecramer2

F1nut,

This is for a little fun and some tongue ‘n cheek but you are one of the snake oil salesman I’ve heard about (-:

Of course nothing is further from the truth than a man with conviction.

The statement that ‘foam surrounds’ makes the difference is unintelligent and is only one factor in a very large area of discussion and engineering concern. Trying to simplify it to one factor is frankly unsophisticated and simple-minded.

All things build by man is immediately attacked my mother nature: all things. Polk speakers are not sent from God, F1nut.

I have every speaker mentioned here, RTA12, Monitor 10 & 7, SDA-2. They all had their original speakers in them when I got them. All the sellers had glowing reports of their superb sound; of course none of it was true.

Take the RTA 12’s: mint condition, 1979 in storage for the last 6 years, owner claims ‘sounds like they’re still new’. If he only can here the 12’s now! I simply replaced all the drivers (still looking at the x-overs) with new. The difference in sound was grand. The sound stage was bright and sparkling. The now opened sound was precisely as it should be, IMO.

To repeat what’s easily seen and known is really a bore, F1nut. Cigarette smoke is loaded with tars, nicotine and other nasty elements, which as an air borne; contaminate, coats everything it touches.

It adds mass to finely engineered parts, gums up small moving devices, coats everything inside and out with a malicious corrosive film. This stuff will work its way through fillers and will coat and plug up anything it touches. Speaker, voice coils, connections, electronic and such are easily effected and it’s another ozone killer beside.

You can’t compare yesterday’s speaker with anything today, impossible. You have different designs, different materials, different engineering and manufacturing techniques. Current popular designs for the small or downsized speaker that the public will buy in another issues.

Have we ever spoken before? You seem very angry and quite hostile. You are also offering little to no argument here.

To speak to me again you’ll need to get some real facts and dump the antidotal verbalize. You’ll have to become civil. What we want in here is to pass along ideas, thoughts and information, to socialize if you will. But you are holding a knife, you want to ‘hurt’ people.

I’m sad for you and the hurt in your life, it really shines through.

spc

saguppy

uhhhh.... wtf

VR3

Hello,
My Name is Dr. Phil.
I own Polk speakers.
Jesse is a bad bad man. His pain shows through.

Give me a break.

Someone needs a nappy time.....

stevecramer2

I agree with madmax!

Polk Audio should bring back at least some of the SDA models. Give us a 6 month run and and let us know in advance so we can save up some green backs!

F1nut

My Dear Friend Steve,

You sir, have obviously lost your mind. Your incoherent troll babblings give you zero credibility and contrary to your comments, it is you who has no proof or facts. I'll decide how, if and when I post or respond on this forum, so please get that though whatever you have left upstairs. Here's an idea, why don't you put your money where your mouth is. Come over, bring whatever new speakers you want and we'll give them a listen vs what I have, winner takes all. So, what do you say, got the nads for that you pathetic loser???

Sincerely,
Jesse

VR3

Jesse picks him up for the body slam, it looks bad for Steve!

Jesse throws him to the right, dropping him to the slab! *KA-BOOM!* OUCH! Thats gonna leave a mark!

OOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Tour2ma

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
Hello,
My Name is Dr. Phil.
I own Polk speakers.
Jesse is a bad bad man. His pain shows through.
Give me a break.
Someone needs a nappy time.....

Excellent Sid...

F1,
londonbarn may have followed you here...

dorokusai

Steve - I think you are reading more into the statement than you should....and making some personal comments that are unwarranted.

No ****, things degrade over time, that's amazing knowledge. Foam surrounds do in fact degrade faster than butyl and rubber, you do know that right? Do they sound better? I don't know, I am simple...I just require good quality sound, regardless of manufacturing material.

Why is someone's opinion that their speaker sounds as good as the day they bought it, not valid? Did they buy that speaker with your ears attached to their head? Is it wrong for an individual to enjoy his speaker, exactly like he just bought them, 10 years later?.....20 years later? Or are they just old and stupid?

I met F1Nut, not but 1 year ago, and his "old" PA 2.3TL's sound pretty damn good to me. So much in fact that I have spent many months, searching, listening, reading, standing, saving, thinking, typing, aching to build a 2CH rig based on "old" SDA technology. I was lucky enough to hook up with a fantastic crew in THIS forum, that allowed me to pick up a set of SDA1C's, specifically Hoosier21. When I heard these "old" ****, I was really happy. Matter of fact I was so happy that I spent many more months, with an objective. To make the right choices in gear, and equipment, to make this 2CH rig sound like I just tossed one off. All based on something that was built in 1986.

I also own RTA-12C's, courtesy TroyD, and gave a minty fresh pair of 1985 Mon10b's to my father, courtesy George Grand and F1Nut. My father also appreciates quality sound reproduction....and was really tickled about the "new" to him aquisition. He has since been listening to alot of old material, and will call me up and mention he never heard certain things before...."old" seems to be much more revealing to him. Is that not worth every freaking penny!?

Have I had to replace drivers? Yes, I have. It comes with the territory of owning vintage gear, period. Did they sound better than before? Yea, because they didn't freaking work prior to the repair. It's subjective, but a constant statement would be that they sounded fantastic again.

We who foray into this genre, also foray into maintenance.

You certainly cement yourself into a certain audiophile category, which there are many of these days. Voodoo, believers, non-believers, newbies...etc....it's still 100% individual, and has nothing to do with anyone else.

wlrandall

"The statement that ‘foam surrounds’ makes the difference is unintelligent and is only one factor in a very large area of discussion and engineering concern. Trying to simplify it to one factor is frankly unsophisticated and simple-minded."

1) Foam is less expensive than butyl rubber-by far. Cost savings??
2) It is also much more flexible than rubber therefore requiring smaller motors in drivers. More cost savings...
3) Have you ever tested the tear resistance of foam vs. rubber? If foam was as tough as you imply, they'd be making tires out of it to reduce costs and weight.
4) Foam is far more susceptible to the elements. The surface area is many times that of rubber if you calculate it properly.

Guess I'll just have to keep my "old" M4SIIs that still DO sound as good as they ever did...

Tour2ma

Originally posted by dorokusai
Have I had to replace drivers? Yes... Did they sound better than before? Yea, because they didn't freaking work prior to the repair.

ROFLMAO...

wlr,
Agree. The foam surrounds are the significant difference between Polk MW's/ woofers and all the other speakers I own. Polk longevity starts there.

sc2,
How would smoke deposit upon the voice coils and other inner workings of a sealed speaker?

rskarvan

In my experience, the classic Polk speakers of the 80's are far more durable and will maintain a much better frequency response than my human ears. So, for me, they will last forever - until some amp clips unexpectantly and fries the voice coils in the SL2000's.

As far as the butyl rubber surrounds... I have invested in a light coating of silicon protectant and they look more beautiful than new and also maintain their proper durometer (rubber softness). I predict that this minor upgrade will keep the rubber surrounds working as new for at least another 20 years longer than their production-mate without this treatment.

Polk speakers are like a good whiskey. Age just enhances its desirability.

madmax

Originally posted by stevecramer2
F1nut,

This is for a little fun and some tongue ‘n cheek but you are one of the snake oil salesman I’ve heard about (-:


The statement that ‘foam surrounds’ makes the difference is unintelligent and is only one factor in a very large area of discussion and engineering concern. Trying to simplify it to one factor is frankly unsophisticated and simple-minded.

I could address almost every paragraph but I'll leave it to the two most blatent ignorant statements.

Snake oil salesman? I think not. To be ignorant of things that cause better sound is understandable but it is your problem, not F1nuts.

Foam surrounds ARE the biggest problem in 15+ year old speakers. Sure, you can replace the surrounds but when rubber is used there is no need to.

madmax


Edit: "I’m sad for you and the hurt in your life, it really shines through."

Yes, it really does.

SDA SRS 1.2

After 15 years my SDA's sound at least as good or better to my ears as they did the day I gingerly unpacked them from those massive shipping cartons resting on pallets. The only "degredation" I've noticed is an occasional tendency for the tweeter protection circuit to kick in when driving the speakers to insanely loud levels usually resulting in complaints from the better half. I think it has been previously discussed that the protection circuit can become a little more quick to kick in as it ages. What a small price to pay for an incredible speaker!

gidrah

I've got speakers that have 20 years on my "vintage" 10Bs that still sound fine. And they don't even have the treated cones or rubber surrounds.:)

Anything mechanical will breakdown over time. This is sad but true. Polk has at least seen fit to minimize the effects of time. Sure the magnets will eventually wear out, but you could probably send them out and have them repolarized for a very nominal fee at any number of places.

madmax

Originally posted by hotwheelman
Why could a body not pull each midbass out and put down some kind of adhesive between the basket and the plate with the pole piece? Would this not help to keep a good bond between them and keep them cookin for years to come?

The failure I've seen is not the magnet breaking loose but the pole piece. The magnet was REALLY hard to remove from the basket so glueing it wouldn't do any good.

acdds

The pole piece in my frozen driver has not come loose. It is still perfectly centered. Any thoughts as to why my driver has frozen?

setzer808

Wow Steve, you've got some anger managment problems there. The statment (as confirmed by many of the forum members already) about the virtues of surround material is very important. I wonder if you think your speaker with replaced drivers sound "better" because you are trying to justify your purchase of the replacments. Oh well, maybe you were just having a bad day when you posted, but lay off with your "wiser than thou attitue", especially vs F1nut, who didn't warrant any of your negative comments.

shack

A pair of AR 4x bookshelf speakers purchased new in 1971. Still rocking after a thourough cleaning of the corroded pots. The sound is not too bad for for a speaker that saw some HARD use back in it's early years.

A pair of Large Advents purchased new in 1979. Re-foam done a few months ago. Everything else is in excellent working order (cabinet has a few nicks). These have been cared for very well and still sound very much like they did new.

Both of these speakers have the "New England" sound properties that AR and Advent are known for. Not necessarily great R&R speakers but generally good all around performers that excel at jazz and classical.

And BTW - I think F1's initial response was very appropriate and I think spc was/is trolling. JMO

madmax

Originally posted by acdds
The pole piece in my frozen driver has not come loose. It is still perfectly centered. Any thoughts as to why my driver has frozen?

Now you realize the pole piece (at least in my terminology) is that center piece which has come loose from the back plate and is now stuck on the magnet? Keep in mind it is the center piece which moved, not the ring around it.
madmax

Libertyc

acdds, Your driver is frozen because the voice coil is blown. The coil will swell and not let the center pole or magnet move which moves the cone.
I have Dynaco's from the early70's which work 100%. My vintage Polks all sound great with the drivers in excellent condition. Just think, if Polk used foam surrounds there would be hundreds of pairs in the trash. The rubber surrounds that Polk used IS the reason why so many vintage SDA and Monitors are around today.

acdds

Which part is the voice coil and what makes it swell?

Libertyc

If you look at the pic Madmax posted you will see the center pole. The voice coil surrounds the pole which is connected to the cone. When current is driven through the voice coil from your amp it creates induction which moves the center pole vibrating the cone which produces sound. If the speaker is overdriven the voice coil will overheat and swell and start rubbing the center pole. If your driver is totally frozen it could of happened during shipping (see other posts) or the driver may have been overdriven or "blown out".
A good way to check a speaker is to gently place two fingers on the outer edge of the cone and gently push is in a few times. The cone should move freely in and out without and rubbing sound. If you hear or feel any rubbing the driver is no good.

Dennis Gardner

Well cared for 30 year old speakers hold their original sound better than my ears have held their hearing.

15 years of playing in bands and living through high end car audio has left me hearing very little above 16khz at the age of 45.

So I guess that now that you know that your old SDAs just aren't what they use to be, you might as well sell them to someone like me that can't tell the difference.:D

DG