High Resolution Audio Can Damage Tweeters?

Nightfall

Can somebody with more knowledge on the subject comment on this?

http://attachments.goldmund.com.s3.amazonaws.com/2015/01/23/15/49/42/359/goldmund_does_high_resolution_audio_sound_better_white_paper.pdf

Potential Reduction in Equipment Lifespan: Typical tweeters start to reach their breakup
modes – the frequencies at which their physical components behave in a non-linear manner
– at frequencies between 25 and 30 kHz. When breakup modes occur, the tweeter
diaphragm (dome) distorts out of its original shape, creating wave patterns in the formerly
smooth diaphragm. Constantly distorting the diaphragm by exciting these breakup modes can
result in physical fatigue of the diaphragm and other mechanical components of the driver,
causing distortion and possible failure of the driver.
Most mass-market amplifier and preamplifier circuits filter out ultrasonic frequencies in
order to avoid oscillation, a state in which the circuit spontaneously generates high-amplitude,
high-frequency tones and quickly burns itself out. However, this filtering is not total or perfect.
As any amplifier technician can probably attest from personal experience, forcing an audio
circuit to reproduce high frequencies at high levels often causes failure of the electrical
components in the circuit. This may not be a problem with the best high-end amplifiers and
preamps, because many of them are specifically designed to handle ultrasonic frequencies.
But it can be a problem with lower-quality components connected to a high-end system, or
with lower-quality systems elsewhere in a home.

PolkieMan

Hmmm make me want to install some kind of filter to block anything over 20,000 cps

CoolJazz

I'm giving it my best to destroy my speakers then at every chance possible. Hasn't happened yet.

Quad LP records had specifically inserted high frequency information. Did tweeters burn out from that?

Simply not a fear of it here at all! Music playback doesn't have enough content to worry about and if an amp breaks into oscillation, then what happens is going to happen.

CJ

skrol

The big buzz used to be "Digital Ready". Now I guess we need "HD Ready".

Dennis Gardner

The frequencies length of 25-30khz is so small that I don't know how much physical contorting would be going on. It isn't the same as forcing a woofer to play beyond its bass frequency limits. We all know that this can cause physical distress on mechanical elements of the woofer.

I think that the normal rolloff of most tweeters would take care of most of the issues.

Another train of thought is that the difference in frequency from 20 to 30 khz is only 6 notes higher since the next octave above 20 khz occurs at 40khz.

btown1985

Hey guys, so how does this work? Most amplifiers spec response of 20hz-20khz, speakers may spec production of higher frequencies but whats the difference? Would manufactures produce a ticking time bomb in all of their products when its known that there will be higher freqs in the source material?

btown1985

Also, bluray audio for example has frequencies well beyond that typical 'limit' so are we all in trouble so to speak?

tonyb

You guys are over thinking this. Your speakers will only play up to their capabilities. Your gear will do the same. Your volume dial and ears will tell you when either hits their limits. We call that distortion.

Speedskater

btown1985 wrote: »

Hey guys, so how does this work? Most amplifiers spec response of 20hz-20khz, speakers may spec production of higher frequencies but whats the difference?

While I don't think that there's enough high frequency content in any music to damage a tweeter.
But specifications have nothing to do with what an amplifier is capable of. Reasonable solid-state amplifiers under bad load conditions, can ring or oscillate in the megahertz range.

btown1985

tonyb wrote: »

You guys are over thinking this. Your speakers will only play up to their capabilities. Your gear will do the same. Your volume dial and ears will tell you when either hits their limits. We call that distortion.

Sorry man, I happens. I'm a novice compared to most here and wouldn't put crazy thoughts past myself. Your comments make sense, thanks guys

Nightfall

tonyb wrote: »

Your speakers will only play up to their capabilities.

You can send a 10Hz sine wave to my RTA12's and you won't hear it but it sure will try. Can the same not be true for the above 20kHz information that is present in downloads from HDTracks distorting the tweeters diaphragm?

I have no clue. Sounds like most people here don't think this is possible or an issue.

tonyb

If your tweeters are distorting, dontcha think you'll hear it ? Some of you act like there's a magical hidden bullet inside HD music waiting to destroy your gear. Yeah, a lot of higher, and lower frequencies can destroy gear, but not if played at the proper volumes. A lot of the specs your focusing on are meaningless anyway but make good script to read and push agenda's.

The only thing able to destroy your gear is ......YOU !! Learn how to listen, how to recognize when the music starts collapsing, when things start sounding congested. Then turn it down.....problem is people get wrapped up in blasting the tunes that they don't pay attention at those higher volumes. That's when bad mojo happens.

Flip side is also volume related when you under power speakers, and start pushing the limits. User faults are the most common reason for blown drivers.....not music.

Know what your system is capable of, and with the type of music you like to listen to. You do that slowly, while listening carefully, and watching where that volume dial is.

RamZet

If it is true than its true in the way cell phones give you cancer.

mhardy6647

There's old lore (from the 1970s) of "too little power damages tweeters" that is steeped in similar misunderstandings. The idea back then was that driving an amplifier into clipping causes an increase in the magnitude (amplitude) of high-order harmonic distortion components which can exceed a tweeter's power handling capacity. While it is true (essentially by definition) that clipping increases harmonic distortion, the absolute effect at 20-plus kHz is not enough to have the claimed effect. The "too little power harms tweeters" tale has been roundly debunked but suspicions persist (sort of like the purported link between autism and Thimerosal preservative in vaccines!).

This thread seems like a new wrinkle on that old misconception.

I would also suggest that the description of 'breakup' above isn't completely accurate. Breakup is indeed a kind of nonlinearity, but AFAIK it represents undesirable resonant diaphragm behavior out of the passband and doesn't do any harm except sonically. Harm to a driver is caused by too much heat, which can cause the thin voice coil wire to literally burn open or cause the voice coil to physically deform (which causes it to drag in the speaker motor's magnetic gap). Too much heat is caused by too much power: P = I^2*R

tonyb

mhardy6647 wrote: »

There's old lore (from the 1970s) of "too little power damages tweeters" that is steeped in similar misunderstandings. The idea back then was that driving an amplifier into clipping causes an increase in the magnitude (amplitude) of high-order harmonic distortion components which can exceed a tweeter's power handling capacity. While it is true (essentially by definition) that clipping increases harmonic distortion, the absolute effect at 20-plus kHz is not enough to have the claimed effect. The "too little power harms tweeters" tale has been roundly debunked but suspicions persist (sort of like the purported link between autism and Thimerosal preservative in vaccines!).

This thread seems like a new wrinkle on that old misconception.

I would also suggest that the description of 'breakup' above isn't completely accurate. Breakup is indeed a kind of nonlinearity, but AFAIK it represents undesirable resonant diaphragm behavior out of the passband and doesn't do any harm except sonically. Harm to a driver is caused by too much heat, which can cause the thin voice coil wire to literally burn open or cause the voice coil to physically deform (which causes it to drag in the speaker motor's magnetic gap). Too much heat is caused by too much power: P = I^2*R

Don't know if I would classify it as a "misconception". Not enough power is certainly a way to drive any amp into clipping if the user chooses to do so unknowingly, and clipping isn't good for your speakers, period. Regardless if a tweeter goes out from a resister in the crossover or any other bad mojo. It's simply not a good idea to under power speakers, if you value the gear anyway.

Listening to your music breaking up is simply a warning sign, like a railroad crossing gate coming down. If your one who likes to push those upper limits, knowing the warning signs is crucial to preserving the gears integrity.

Too many times people blame the gear for when stuff goes south when in reality it's the end user who is abusing the gear or simply doesn't know what to listen for. Kinda like dogs. Bad dog behavior is usually not because of the dog itself, but the owner.

I know that's painting with a broad brush, and certainly not applicable to everyone, but dang.....I've seen way too much of it over the years.

mhardy6647

I certainly agree that clipping is best avoided. I certainly do.