Attic Heat Bad For Gear?

msg

Hey guys,
quick question - would attic heat be bad for a receiver or AVR stored in one for an unknown period of time?

I'm considering a piece that was apparently stored in an attic for a while in the midwest, so wondering whether it could be damaged by such temps. In the summer, apparently attics can hit 140+, depending on the ventilation. Not really sure what operating temps are for gear, either.

anyone got any experience with this?

BlueFox

It can't help. Plus the swings in temperature between summer and winter don't help either.

Polkie2009

Gotta agree, for something like a boxed avr that takes up so little of room, there has to be some place in the house to store it or use it .

mrloren

Attic is way to warm to store things. at attic floor level is not bad but up by the roof line is where it hits 140F. If you are getting it for cheap go for it.

msg

thanks for the feedback fellas. I'm trying to get more information. it's a relatively flawless and currently fully functional B&K Reference 50 S2.
the seller was forthcoming with history on it when I asked; he's probably regretting that now. apparently came from one of his clients who had it stored away for a while. I'm hoping it's one of those converted-ish attics you see on tv all the time - you know, the ones that woulda been cool rooms to have when you're a kid and wanting your own fort.

pitdogg2

I have stored gear in my attic. I even had a very old Yamaha tuner that sat for years in the attic. I have been using it for going on 10 yrs. now with no problems. Ideal? NO! deal killer I'd think not, More I would question "how" it was used. Some people just abuse their gear no matter where it sits.

polkfarmboy

Should not be a prob? People leave their gear on all the time so storing an AVR would be ok, now if it was a pair of electrostat speakers I would not recommend.

leftwinger57

As a former alarm and fire systems installer who worked in many hot attics I'd say that would be the worst place to keep any electronic gear. Most new gear gives parameters both hot and cold and 140* would be way to hot even if the attic was vented right not to mention the amount of dust that develops up there. At the very least if your still interested in the piece bring some canned air w/ you to clean out the receiver.

Polkie2009

I would like to think OP would be storing the avr , sealed in original packing and box. If not, at least__ in a sealed box.

PSOVLSK

This entire thread has pretty much been opinions, which is fine, but does anyone know the actual reason why it would be bad? What would be the possible damage from storing in a location of extreme heat?

I ask because I don't know. I've wondered the same thing about my AVR, CD player, and speakers in my garage during a hot Texas summer. That being said, never an issue with my garage system.

The TV on my patio recommends unplugging in very cold weather, but mentions nothing about hot weather. This will be a very generic explanation, but it has something to do with parts being damaged by having electricity run through them during extreme cold.

msg

thanks for all the responses and discussion points so far, guys.

my understanding is that it has been stored in its original box and packing materials, but that's all I know right now.

yes, I've read others stating before about how it's "better" leaving amps on all the time, warm, as opposed to on/off cycles. one of my other B&K pieces stays warm even on standby. I would imagine this is by design and not a flaw. there's some second stage that clicks off after a little while when I completely disconnect power from it, and then it goes cold.

some good points here, for sure, about humidity, dust, critters, and temperature extremes. I'll keep you guys posted. about all I know right now is that it is supposedly fully functional and in like new condition, which at least seems to indicate that it wasn't often carelessly mishandled like some of the poor gear we see from time to time, which leaves us shaking our heads. I hope to get a better sense of how the previous owner handles equipment when I hear back. the boxes seem like a good sign - seems like the pickiest owners seem to keep boxes and packing materials. all speculation at this point, though.

vmaxer

Hey, if it's a good deal go for it. If going for the averag price, maybe not?? Not knowing how much the asking price makes it more difficult to say what I would do???

comfortablycurt

I live in Illinois, and we get really cold winters and really hot summers, so attic temperatures can vary significantly throughout the year. I've stored various pieces of gear in my attic over the years, and I've never noticed any issues. It's certainly not ideal, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me by any means.

tonyb

I guess you can say not all attics are equal in temps either. Just because you live in a certain geographical area means spit. Generally speaking though, not a good idea without assuming some risks.

OldSchoolPolk

I would imagine storage temp and operating temp would be two different issues as xcapri79 noted.

Correct me if I'm wrong but gear shipped from over seas in those huge metal shipping containers has got to get pretty hot. Then the gear is loaded into a truck and transported across the country w/ possible temps at both extremes. Then the gear sits in a warehouse for months. Though some warehouses might have HVAC systems, most don't (or even insulation for that matter.) And finally to the end users home where avg temps finally comes to within about a 10 degree range.

How many electronics companies stage an advertisement photo shoot of the gear with the amp on the bottom and preamp, DAC or CD right above it? Most in this forum know thats not good, but many others stack gear like that b/c it looks good with the larger unit on the bottom.

After all that, if I can get a few more pieces in the door and store them in the attic to put in the monthly rotation w/o pissing the Mrs. off you know I'm going to do it!

Still, I'm guessing its better to have everything in an unfinished attic vs. an unfinished basement. But it's just a guess....

msg

guys, thanks for all the input here. I appreciate the perspectives from both sides -- good points all around.

so I went ahead with the unit. average price, which I didn't mind too much because the Reference 50 S2 in black seems a bit scarce. I've kinda been looking off and on for the past 9 months or so. didn't come across a whole lot, or the ones I did come across didn't have the original box and packing materials, or were missing the remote, or weren't in very good condition. this is the last B&K piece I was after. It arrived mostly as described, howeverrrrrrr... the controls keep locking up. no rhyme or reason to it. the unit still plays through whatever input is set, however stops responding to input commands after inconsistent time intervals. inputs changing wouldn't be such a big deal, but I couldn't even control the volume. In my testing, this was anywhere from shortly after powering on, to 30 minutes or so run time, to a couple of hours. with permission of the seller, I carried out a few factory resets on it on the unit, per the owners manual. it still locked up after the first two, and then after the third. after the fourth reset, and a period without power connected at all, I thought it would be stable, as it ran for about three hours without issue. unfortunately, it locked up again sometime during the night.

I've been in contact with the seller, keeping him in the loop along the way. seems very fair, was apologetic, and he's offered a generous concession for me to keep it. If I could get it to run reliably for 8-10 hours or so, I may consider it, but another problem has crept up - now it won't even power on. I checked the fuse on the back. shows continuity, so I think it's good, but I'm going to pick up a replacement today to try just to rule it out. I'm afraid it's going to have to go back unless there's an ultra-generous concession along the lines of this being sold as parts/repair, but even then, who to go to for repair if it's not working at all or if the locks increase in frequency? truly a shame; it's in really nice condition, otherwise, and worked beautifully when it worked. I had it paired with an older B&K EX-442 and a pair of 703's in a smaller space, and this was a great combination to my ears. I've grown partial to B&K's presentation in this line of preamps and processors. the sound and ergonomics really appeal to me. working with pieces in this line was a little daunting at first, but once you get them programmed (software + a laptop) and a few presets dialed, along with the URC remote (also programmed with software + a laptop), they're not too bad to navigate, and I really enjoy the simplicity.

okay, so lessons to be learned here:

• maybe ask about storage conditions in your future purchase ventures if the equipment wasn't always in use.
• the note about equipment sitting unused for a while may also be a worthy consideration. I feel like that may have been part of the issue here with this unit since it did finally seem responsive after a few factory resets, power dissipation, and reprogramming.

Polkie2009

I'm going to guess a few things may have happened here, possibly when you tried to reset different times, the unit lost it's ability to store to factory settings or upgrades? Maybe there's a small battery inside that has gone bad( isn't unit about 10 years old?) that allows the unit to maintain a memory of settings etc. in case of power failure? There's always a possibility the unit got banged up in transit. Anybody who's experienced with B&K and has had a similar incident happen,please chime in! EDIT: Just wanted to add that there might be some info on this over at the AVS forum site possibly in the receivers,amps and processors section for this particular B&K model.

BlueFox

I had a working receiver in my garage where it went through temperature swings, although not as bad as an attic. Anyway, it sat unused for a few years, and then one day I noticed it was leaking something. I guess some caps just dissolved.

mrloren

I just had a dah moment.

I am by trade a warehouse guy. I didn't even bother to think of this before. How do all these nice electronics get here to the good ole U.S.A.? They are loaded in conex boxes and put on a ship. For 3 to 5 weeks these boxes are on a ship going through tropical waters and sometimes into cold water. The hot and cold swings these will have is extreme, an attic does not even come close.

So I would say you are good.

Polkie2009

OldSchoolPolk wrote: »

I would imagine storage temp and operating temp would be two different issues as xcapri79 noted.

Correct me if I'm wrong but gear shipped from over seas in those huge metal shipping containers has got to get pretty hot. Then the gear is loaded into a truck and transported across the country w/ possible temps at both extremes. Then the gear sits in a warehouse for months. Though some warehouses might have HVAC systems, most don't (or even insulation for that matter.) And finally to the end users home where avg temps finally comes to within about a 10 degree range.

How many electronics companies stage an advertisement photo shoot of the gear with the amp on the bottom and preamp, DAC or CD right above it? Most in this forum know thats not good, but many others stack gear like that b/c it looks good with the larger unit on the bottom.

After all that, if I can get a few more pieces in the door and store them in the attic to put in the monthly rotation w/o pissing the Mrs. off you know I'm going to do it!

Still, I'm guessing its better to have everything in an unfinished attic vs. an unfinished basement. But it's just a guess....

Old School Polk already ran this one by us about 3 days ago.

msg

alright fellas, well the story goes, I ended up buying a broken Reference 50 S2 for $75 and shipping. could have returned it, but figured I'd take a chance on possibly getting it back up and running again.

I'll break it down at some point to see whether there's anything I can do to fix it and maybe put in a call to ATI to see what's up if I can't get anywhere with it. If all else fails, a trip to a local service shop guru to see what he says. Don't have high hopes right now, but we'll see. I have some research to do.

PSOVLSK

Not sure about the going rate for one of these, but it would seem that you got it for a good enough price that you can afford to drop some money into it to get it up and running. I had a Ref 10 that I liked, so I'm sure the Ref 50 is pretty nice.

leftwinger57

To add to my little story a few posts ago, I bought some Bose 601s. I saw the guy humping them down from the pull down garage attic stairs. Of course they were foam rotted but I got them working and that's another story. He also had a nice looking Sansui receiver also hanging out in the attic for years and he wanted $20 for it. I said lets plug it in and see if it works, it was so full of dust it heated up immediately and literal flames started to come out of it and we tossed out to the curb. Lesson here if you have store sh$t in your attic at least box and cover it.

msg

PSOVLSK wrote: »

Not sure about the going rate for one of these, but it would seem that you got it for a good enough price that you can afford to drop some money into it to get it up and running. I had a Ref 10 that I liked, so I'm sure the Ref 50 is pretty nice.

yeah, I have seen them listed for parts/repair from time to time, but never paid attention to the price. I see the Ref 50 S2 on Ebay usually going for around $350 - $400+ or so, sometimes without remote or box. the S1 may go for a little less. This is still pretty expensive when you consider you can get the AVR 507 S2 for around $400-$500, which is pretty much the Ref 50 front end with integrated amp rated at 150w/8Ω | 185w/4Ω, and 42A peak to peak. (I'm attaching a couple of B&K's spec sheets, just for fun)

DSkip wrote: »

My suspicions tell me that it was in the attic for so long because the issue was there before it made its way up there. I imagine he always expected to fix it because of the quality of the piece, but realized recently that it would never happen.

Yeah, possibly. The story I got was that it was obtained from a client who said it worked perfectly. but yeah, I can certainly see how these types of projects get back-burnered, esp when parts/repair aren't readily available. I thought I had it sorted there with that last system reset. it was going for a good while without locking up before it failed completely.

leftwinger57 wrote: »

To add to my little story a few posts ago, I bought some Bose 601s. I saw the guy humping them down from the pull down garage attic stairs. Of course they were foam rotted but I got them working and that's another story. He also had a nice looking Sansui receiver also hanging out in the attic for years and he wanted $20 for it. I said lets plug it in and see if it works, it was so full of dust it heated up immediately and literal flames started to come out of it and we tossed out to the curb. Lesson here if you have store sh$t in your attic at least box and cover it.

holy crap! caught fire?!? yikes, man.

yeah, this unit may have been stored in the oe bag + box. at least, that's how it was when I received it.

did you refoam those 601's yourself? I've always wanted to try that.


at any rate, something to play around with. if I can get it repaired cheaply, it'll make for a nice little story. if not, it won't be a catastrophe.

leftwinger57

MSG, here goes. Again I saw him bringing them down and I knew what they were. 601s series 1 all wood so sun bleached they looked like drift wood, filth dirty and dusty and the 4 woofers were rotted out. I got them for $20. I saw quite a few You-Tube vids on re foaming went on E-Bay bought a set for $30 or so. So I cleaned them up way before the set arrived and it was great therapy. Then got to work on the speakers and centered them and glued them w/ no rubbing and all was well w/ the world. After drying for a few days I ran them through my Adcom and sounded great. Very powerful and the series 1s had this switch in back to change the sound. 1 setting called symmetrical was just front and top firing, Asymmetrical launched the sound to bounce off the walls and worked. I kept them for about 8 months then flipped them on C/L for $175. I still wish I had them. Oh, that sun bleached look I ditched and used Howard's restore a finish to bring back a walnut look. All that's needed is a steady hand and some patience.

westmassguy

I'll add my 2 cents here as well. Electrolytic Capacitors DO NOT like sitting around doing nothing. The high heat in the attic could accelerate the aging process on those caps as well. They're filled with electrolyte goo, for lack of a better term, which eventually dries out. Modern caps are better sealed than vintage, but nothing is 100%. The suggestion about the coin battery for memory is good, although some use a special storage cap instead of a battery.
Hopefully it's a easy repair.

msg

leftwinger57 wrote: »

MSG, here goes. Again I saw him bringing them down and I knew what they were. 601s series 1 all wood so sun bleached they looked like drift wood, filth dirty and dusty and the 4 woofers were rotted out. I got them for $20. I saw quite a few You-Tube vids on re foaming went on E-Bay bought a set for $30 or so. So I cleaned them up way before the set arrived and it was great therapy. Then got to work on the speakers and centered them and glued them w/ no rubbing and all was well w/ the world. After drying for a few days I ran them through my Adcom and sounded great. Very powerful and the series 1s had this switch in back to change the sound. 1 setting called symmetrical was just front and top firing, Asymmetrical launched the sound to bounce off the walls and worked. I kept them for about 8 months then flipped them on C/L for $175. I still wish I had them. Oh, that sun bleached look I ditched and used Howard's restore a finish to bring back a walnut look. All that's needed is a steady hand and some patience.

nicely done, man! I see a lot of people trash Bose, and everyone's got a different ear, but I've always liked Bose, myself. that sounds like quite the journey you've had with those 601's. thanks for that note on Howard's! someone mentioned that stuff to me months ago, and I forgot the name of it, but that's it. indeed, cleaning/restoration projects can be therapeutic. I find myself sometimes getting lost in admiration of the difference and progress along the way. definitely fun and rewarding, especially for an ending like yours. too bad you let them go. had that experience before, too. which is probably why I've been jokingly(?) accused of being a hoarder?

westmassguy wrote: »

I'll add my 2 cents here as well. Electrolytic Capacitors DO NOT like sitting around doing nothing. The high heat in the attic could accelerate the aging process on those caps as well. They're filled with electrolyte goo, for lack of a better term, which eventually dries out. Modern caps are better sealed than vintage, but nothing is 100%. The suggestion about the coin battery for memory is good, although some use a special storage cap instead of a battery.
Hopefully it's a easy repair.

thanks for weighing in on this. I know nothing of how these components work or are affected over time, so this was a bit insightful for me.

now that I own the Ref 50, I'll pull the cover and look around for a battery or something.

msg

I received an email from Jeff at ATI last night. He gave me a list of B&K Service Providers. I'm including here for reference in case anyone else happens across this thread.

B&K Component Repairs are available at:

Stargate Electronics, Inc.
824 Conklin St.
Farmingdale, NY 11735

Phone: (631) 465-0900
http://stargateelectronicrepairs.com/

Lakes Electronics

5245 N. University Drive

Lauderhill, FL 33351

Phone: (954) 749-6100

http://www.lakeselectronics.com/

L&M Electronics Service Company
2401 Geneva Avenue
Daly City, CA 94014
Phone: (415) 586-1840
http://www.landmelectronics.net

ATI (B&K) Technical Support
John Baloff
(323) 278-0001 x 112
support@ati-amp.com

Emlyn

B&K made great amps, but their later processors were prone to problems. May have been what drove the company under in the end. I had a Reference 50 S2 for a while and found it sounded great, but was pretty flaky in operation and ran hot. With no firmware updates available to what was already a flawed design once B&K went out of business it wasn't worth keeping so I donated mine. It worked, but was not always responsive to the remote control and wouldn't hold channel levels consistently. Still sounded great as a two channel preamp though. From what I understand their last processor was a disaster. One of the above may be able to do a firmware update to resolve a problem if the last firmware version wasn't loaded.

I wouldn't recommend buying one of the later B&K processors for home theater use regardless of where it was stored. I'd recommend their amps without hesitation though as long as it powers up and is in good condition.

Polkie2009

Great info on the B&K service providers msg. There a lot of members here who have and love their B&K equipment and this will help them in case they ever need repairs. Emlyn, after spending some time researching the Ref. 50 on various sites, I too came to the conclusion that other owners of them had some issues with them. So unfortunate for such a good company as B&K , I would own one of their amps in a heartbeat.

msg

I just called one of the shops ATI recommended, and obviously they'd have to see it. The guy thinks it may be in the power circuit somewhere, but said if it needs proprietary parts, obviously we're dead in the water. On the other hand, if it's just something generic in the circuit he said he can probably make the repair. He seemed pretty confident that it was repairable. With that information, I'm thinking it might just be worth taking to the semi-local shop I know of first, and get it evaluated here. He's got a pretty good reputation in the area, so he'd be able to let me know whether it's something simple or specialized. Be cool if it's something simple and not a trashed IC or something. I didn't really notice any swelled or leaking components from what I could tell so far, nothing sticky, but I don't know what I'm looking at. To me, it just looks like four weird looking batteries glued to the board.

I forgot to mention, while I was testing it, it had an odd smell. not really like anything burning, just some odd electronic scent I've not experienced before.

Here are some photos for you guys.

Faceplate - when I power cycle it now, nothing happens at all. Occasionally, the red light in the Enter key will come on, usually briefly. It stayed on continuously one of the times. I am not able to readily reproduce this condition.


Guts


Overview of Power Section


Transformer


Card. Thinking that this assembly is where the firmware and programming live. Check out that one leg not seated. Came like that. By design? Maybe completely plugged in at the factory for programming, then removed and that one leg pulled out? Pure speculation. Or, could have been the previous owner messing around and put it back in messed up.