Does anyone feel bad about not going with their dealer and instead gets a used deal?

Joey_V
Joey_V Posts: 8,552
in 2 Channel Audio
Anyone feel like they should stick with their dealer despite a decent used deal on audiohon/craigslist?

I'm in this dilemma with a guy in Houston who after I buy his system will know me no more than Paul or peter. My dealer in Dallas is so nice to , he let's me audition and take things home . I promised him that if I buy a diamond speaker I will get it from him. My brother bought from him and it was my turn.

But I found a better deal by accident and I feel bad taking it. Wife says it's business. But for me, it's nice to develop a rapport with a dealer too.

Crossroads for me...
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    Hi Joey,

    Your wife is right, it is just business. It's nice to be loyal to a good retailer, but you have to consider everything. What after services does this dealer give? If something goes wrong with a speaker, can you bring it back in for him to ship back to have fixed etc.

    Trust me the dealer is not sitting around waiting for you to come back in. In the end you have to do what's best for you and your wallet.
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  • decal
    decal Posts: 3,205
    Do you feel bad about going to Walgreen's instead of CVS?
    If you can't hear a difference, don't waste your money.
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  • mrbiron
    mrbiron Posts: 5,711
    Quite honest, with a purchase of your caliber, id sleep better going with a dealer but then again, i've never spent money like before on audio equipment.

    Lifes a gamble....
    Where’s the KABOOM?!?! There’s supposed to be an Earth shattering KABOOM!!!
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  • tratliff
    tratliff Posts: 1,701
    I think your wife is right, it is business. I have been in these situations before. The best thing to do is explain it to the dealer and if he is really a quality dealer he will support your decision. With the purchases you are making he will get a piece of the pie sooner or later.
    2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Silver 4+ Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon and Hurricane Power Cables
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,020
    edited February 2015
    So is this deal about the Diamond speakers you said you'd buy from the local guy, but the Houston guy is offering a better deal?
    I disabled signatures.
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  • brgman
    brgman Posts: 2,859
    Just don't cry when the guy who loans you equipment and helps you when you need help is out of business.
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  • ZLTFUL
    ZLTFUL Posts: 5,648
    I have it doubly bad in that my favorite local dealer is also owned by someone who has been a good friend for the last 20 or so years of my life...heck, I was even a groomsman at his wedding.

    But we once had a pretty in depth discussion about this very topic.
    Our feelings were pretty much the same.
    If the deal is something that he can in no way come close to matching, he has my blessing. But if there is a chance that he can meet or beat a deal, he wants to be the person I go to.

    Having established that, I find myself visiting his shop more to buy those incidental things that I *know* I can get cheaper online but feel a loyalty to him.

    2 good examples...
    1. When I was in the market for a HT amp, I auditioned the Rotel 5 channel amp he stocks as well as a couple of consignment pieces he had in store. I narrowed the choices down to the Rotel and the Emotiva XPR-5. In the end, I went with the XPR-5 because I found one for nearly 50% of the asking price on the Rotel and that still had 3+ years of warranty left on it. I explained my thought process to him and he was happy that he made it into my final 2 but understood that he just couldn't compete with the value that I had found. He has never begrudged me for it and even came over for a couple of movies once it was all settled in.

    2. My recent Esoteric CDP purchase. Again, I demoed several pieces in his inventory including 2 pieces that were well outside of my intended budget. I stumbled upon the Esoteric and offered the seller a lowball offer which he actually accepted, to my surprise. That afternoon, before responding to the seller, I went in and talked to my buddy. He told me flat out that I was an idiot if I didn't buy it for that price and that if I didn't, he would.

    I am lucky in that I have a dealer that is also a friend. He understands that my wife won't allow me to throw the amounts of money that I want to into this hobby but also does his best to help me stay within budget.

    All of that in mind, my first purchase choice is *always* my local shop unless the deal is of such a good nature that even they would have a hard time finding fault in it. Otherwise, I will happily throw money at my buddy's shop every time.
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    ZLTFUL wrote: »
    Otherwise, I will happily throw money at my buddy's shop every time.

    I may have to start throwing money to your buddys shop at this rate Ryan..... :smile:.....

    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • jeremymarcinko
    jeremymarcinko Posts: 3,785
    It was unethical but, I wouldn't worry to much about it. I am sure he will get your business, at some point. In addition, I am sure you have spread the word about his business and good nature to others, as you have done here. Therefore you have potentially brought sales his way. We all do what is in our own best interest, most of the time, right? It was in the salesman's best interest to loan you gear, in hopes of getting your business. It was in your best interest to save some money, while still getting the items you desired. Yes, it feels somewhat unethical, because it was, but as long as nothing was promised or expected in exchange for the in home trials then you didn't owe him anything.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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  • ZLTFUL
    ZLTFUL Posts: 5,648
    EndersShadow wrote: »
    I may have to start throwing money to your buddys shop at this rate Ryan..... :smile:.....

    Still trying to get you to come up for a weekend. Both of the good local shops are worth perusing.



    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    ZLTFUL wrote: »
    EndersShadow wrote: »
    I may have to start throwing money to your buddys shop at this rate Ryan..... :smile:.....

    Still trying to get you to come up for a weekend. Both of the good local shops are worth perusing.

    I will figure out a way to make it happen eventually lol.......

    A flexi rack build, pre-amp enclosure drop off/pickup etc.... lol

    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,552
    msg wrote: »
    So is this deal about the Diamond speakers you said you'd buy from the local guy, but the Houston guy is offering a better deal?

    Locally guy technically meant Houston guy.
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,552
    edited February 2015
    DSkip wrote: »
    Nope. Then again, Audio Concepts is full of snobbery anyways.

    Not buying from AC. Different shop. Hi End Audio in Plano. Audio concepts carries Wilson and vandersteen. Hi end carries bw diamonds and Rockports.
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,552
    brgman wrote: »
    Just don't cry when the guy who loans you equipment and helps you when you need help is out of business.

    To be clear, this shop has not loaned me a single equipment but has promised to loan me in the future like that Berkeley Dac or some Gibraltar or JL audio subs. In fact, in my adventure and auditions there, I was able to get my brother to buy a system from him. He bought 804 diamonds with musical fidelity integrated and dac. The dealer has already made money of us.
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,552
    edited February 2015
    cfrizz wrote: »
    Hi Joey,

    Your wife is right, it is just business. It's nice to be loyal to a good retailer, but you have to consider everything. What after services does this dealer give? If something goes wrong with a speaker, can you bring it back in for him to ship back to have fixed etc.

    Trust me the dealer is not sitting around waiting for you to come back in. In the end you have to do what's best for you and your wallet.

    After service include a 3h set up and full guarantee that any issue is dealt with swiftly. Say the diamond driver goes out, he sends a tech over to replace the driver.

    He says he knows how to set up a speaker using the sumiko method, similar to how they set up the sonus faber stradivari. Much better than I know how. He said he will teach me how to do it for future installs.

    Plus he delivers. Plus I'll obviously be in on any new things he gets and probably better pricing too when the 900 diamonds or whatever comes out. He does not do trade ins, I already asked, so I'll be in the hook at that time to sell on audiogon or use the 800 diamonds on a secondary system but not sure what will happen when that time comes.

    My biggest issue is that the diamonds are such behemoths that it is hard for me to lift it around myself and even with friends. If one of my friends injured themselves, I might be on the hook.

    Plus my other issue is the purchase at Houston itself. The guy wants me to go to his house and pay cash, I'd rather have the speakers and amps sent to his dealer and I can meet him there as I find this more legit and we were going to use his dealers transport network to deliver it to Dallas. We meet at his dealers location and I pay there. Rather than me going to some guys house on craigslist with 20 on hand.
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,552
    edited February 2015
    mrbiron wrote: »
    Quite honest, with a purchase of your caliber, id sleep better going with a dealer but then again, i've never spent money like before on audio equipment.

    Lifes a gamble....
    You're right I'd sleep better too.

    Basically, price breakdown is this:

    Dealer - brand new 800 diamond. No fingerprints.
    22k with tax.

    Houston Craigslist guy - 10 months old from a Houston/Dallas authorized dealer MODIA
    800 diamond + Mcintosh 1201 monoblocks (1200 watt) = 20k + my fuel costs and uhaul/delivery costs and time since it would take me and 3 friends to go to Houston this weekend (6h each way on uhaul)

    Basically the cost is nearly a wash. My bank account gets hit the same. The difference is the amplifiers. I go used, I get a free set of amps.

    You can google how much these amps cost.
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • Moose68Bash
    Moose68Bash Posts: 3,843
    You're obviously nervous about this deal for reasons other than your concerns about your relationship with your dealer-friend.

    The McIntosh 1201s retail for ~$15,000 for the pair. The 800Ds are available to you for $22,000. This means you're looking at getting new retail components worth about $37,000 for $20,000 used. Who knows what the right amount of depreciation is on these items.

    However, you are nervous about the deal offered by an unknown guy who wants you to come to his home with $20k in cash and who provides no warranties or after sales service or anything else.

    If a deal sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

    I would haggle a bit more with your dealer-friend to see whether he has some more to give.

    With that said, I would prefer to sleep comfortably a night by purchasing from a trusted source when I'm spending that kind of money.
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,552
    1. Exactly, it is approx 39k retail for 20k for both the 800 diamonds and the 1201 monoblocks.
    2. Guy who is selling it knows the other competing bw dealer who has 5 dealers in Houston/Dallas area. The president of that dealer (modia, google it) has spoken to me and told me warranty is transferable to me on both products since they are only 10 months old.
    3. Our hang up has been payment. I told the Houston guy that since he is best buds with modia president, send it to the Dallas modia store and I can go there and inspect and if ok then I wire him cash of 20. His response was I need payment before they leave the house. My response was no. His other thing was for me to come by his house so I can hear them and see them and then bring a uhaul truck over. My response was that if I pick up that kind of expensive gear with a uhaul, I don't have it insured in the back of the truck and if I go over a bump and they tip over, any money I tried to save by going the used route is gone.
    4. My parents warned me about this, if things go wrong they will go very wrong and 20k will be the least of my worry.
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,552
    4. The wrong would be if I get a gun to my head at some dude's house.
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,552
    It's Sunday. Banks are not open.
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,552
    Yeah we leave it in the car but it's not hard to flush it out if the guys got a gun to your head.
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  • teekay0007
    teekay0007 Posts: 2,289
    DSkip wrote: »
    Don't take the money to the house man. You do an audition and go from there. I'd never take that kind of cash to a house. Even when I do smaller deals, $50 or whatnot, I always leave the money outside.

    Now you're talkin'...back to 'my neighborhood'. I thought for a second there I was reading action from a Miami Vice episode. B)

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  • Moose68Bash
    Moose68Bash Posts: 3,843
    I smell a rat!
    Family Room, Innuos Statement streamer (Roon Core) with Morrow Audio USB cable to McIntosh MC 2700 pre with DC2 Digital Audio Module; AQ Sky XLRs to CAT 600.2 dualmono amp, Morrow Elite Speaker Cables to NOLA Baby Grand Reference Gold 3 speakers. Power source for all components: Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One with dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel.

    Exercise Room, Innuos Streamer via Cat 6 cable connection to PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ King Cobra RCAs to Perreaux PMF3150 amp (fully restored and upgraded by Jeffrey Jackson, Precision Audio Labs), Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables to SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers and other mods.), Dreadnaught with Supra Rondo 4x2.5 interconnect cables by Vr3 Mods. Power for each component from dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel, except Innuos Statement powered from Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One.

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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 1,394
    Joey,

    I am curious, do you have news of B&W coming out with a new line? The 800s have been around for some time and the only recent update was the D2 tweeters. I used to go High End many moons ago. One particular day, the prices of the the entire 800 series went up at least $1,000. I was informed it was due to the currency rate difference between Europe and the States. All was good and no ill will felt, I ended up purchasing mine elsewhere.

    Good luck on your journey. I will be heading to Houston area this Thursday, got some seafood I need to pick up.

    Halen

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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,861
    This type of cash deal is done every day of the week for more than this. Protect yourself with video of bill of sale transaction if needed. Hire a bonded moving company if you don't know how to drive a Uhaul. There are ways for this to happen if you think it through. Cashier's check is possible too.

    My guess is that your worry is way above the sellers concern for safety since he has already decided that taking a $20k beating on the 10 month old gear is fine with him.

    About the remorse over your dealers loss of revenue, ask him to look them over and check them out for you for $500 or so. He will understand your good fortune on such a good deal and if he doesn't, he isn't worth the effort.

    As a dealer myself, I never felt bad about someone buying gear elsewhere, but I always felt bad when they bought elsewhere without even asking me for a bid or quote or advice on used gear pricing.
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    I don't think one should feel too bad about buying used versus new from a dealer. In exchange for saving a few dollars you are giving up warranty, service, and other help. On the other hand, people who use a dealers time to audition gear, and then buy off the Internet should burn in Hades.

    I wish I had a local dealer to support, so my dealer is the Internet. Hopefully, it never gets mad at me. :)
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  • B Run
    B Run Posts: 1,888
    I'd just be completely upfront with your dealer and see if he's willing to negotiate a little more, if not at least you can say you tried and no feel guilty. He probably won't blame you either way and would at least appreciate the last chance to get your business.
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,552
    B Run wrote: »
    I'd just be completely upfront with your dealer and see if he's willing to negotiate a little more, if not at least you can say you tried and no feel guilty. He probably won't blame you either way and would at least appreciate the last chance to get your business.

    Agree, I will call my AD tomorrow.
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,552
    Dennis Gardner wrote: »
    This type of cash deal is done every day of the week for more than this. Protect yourself with video of bill of sale transaction if needed. Hire a bonded moving company if you don't know how to drive a Uhaul. There are ways for this to happen if you think it through. Cashier's check is possible too.

    My guess is that your worry is way above the sellers concern for safety since he has already decided that taking a $20k beating on the 10 month old gear is fine with him.

    You're probably right, I'm probably just a little paranoid.

    I probably will call around for delivery options tomorrow. I will also get the owner of Modia to help facilitate and make sure it is insured.

    The thing I don't like about this deal is that the person cannot provide a bill of sale... we live in the age of computers, a purchase of this magnitude 10 months ago SHOULD have a bill of sale and Modia should be able to provide the bill of sale.

    But, the guy does seem legit from my talks with him so I am sure I'm just paranoid. I hope this deal goes through since I save a lot.
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,554
    There's a number of things Modia should be able to do. One of them is not lie out their a$$. Personally, I will avoid them at all cost in the future.

    Joey, not sure why you feel the need to run this by everyone here. It's your choice to make and live with, not ours.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

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