Please help a rookie (me) restore these 3.1TL cabinets

lawdogg

I am trying to figure out how to restore these to like-new condition.

1. The grilles are mostly OK other than a white wax (?) spot on one of them.
2. The tops will probably need to be sanded. I would love to know the correct procedure to do so (they aren't real wood I don't think?) and how to stain / what to stain with after sanding.
3. The backs have some scratches, are they even restoreable?
4. Also, a random internal crossmember was bouncing around inside of one of them, any advice as to how to glue it back in?
5. One of the speaker wire terminals is missing. Should I replace it alone or get all new ones? Any reasonably-priced improved terminals?

Thanks in advance.

MrBuhl

lawdogg wrote: »

I am trying to figure out how to restore these to like-new condition.

1. The grilles are mostly OK other than a white wax (?) spot on one of them.
2. The tops will probably need to be sanded. I would love to know the correct procedure to do so (they aren't real wood I don't think?) and how to stain / what to stain with after sanding.
3. The backs have some scratches, are they even restoreable?
4. Also, a random internal crossmember was bouncing around inside of one of them, any advice as to how to glue it back in?
5. One of the speaker wire terminals is missing. Should I replace it alone or get all new ones? Any reasonably-priced improved terminals?

Hi Lawdogg - I'll take a stab at it - though there are much more experienced folks on PF.

1. Grilles are easy - buy new grill cloth and recover - I used 3M spray adhesive on my Infinity speaker refurb - go easy though, a little goes a long way. I got my cloth on eBay but you can get it anywhere, Partsexpress, GR research, etc etc. Just google it. (You may also be able to take an old bath towel, place it under the waxy spot, and run a hot iron over that section - it may melt enough of the wax out that you don't have to replace - it's an old trick/idea, but might work and save you some labor and coin)

2. Tops can be sanded yes, they should be veneer over MDF - so you only have a thin layer to sand - be careful... (and some of those stains look to be soaked in). If you truly want to make them "like new" - you may want to consider re-veneering or hardwood caps like some have done - though there is a swelling/cracking factor to consider with real hardwood. As for color, that's up to you - they're probably walnut or rosewood from the factory - but pick what floats your boat.

3. Backs - not sure about that part - they're the back after all - there's no toe-in on SDA's so they should only be seen when not in use - I wouldn't worry about them IMO.

4. That crossmember can be glued I believe - I reinforced mine in my 1c's with Locktite Power Grab - but there are probably other alternatives. Mine was not loose though, so there may be more sturdy methods required if others want to chime in.

5. Speaker terminals - if you're getting one and replacing it - I would just do all of them IMO - it's a nice recommended upgrade in general for SDA's - and you can go all the way from Cardas or Vampire "break the bank" to a decent quality solid copper/gold coated import version for a lot less. Either will be an improvement over stock.

I guess it depends on what you want to do with them. If you're restoring to sell, I'd go easy, it's a deep rabbit hole, if you want them for yourself, congrats - they are amazing speakers and worth the investment for sound enjoyment. Search these forums, there are an incredible amount of upgrades that can be done, and everything has been documented before if you take the time to search.

ZLTFUL

It's oak veneer. And many of those stains and scratches are deep enough that you will have sanded through the veneer before you get rid of them.

Loctite Powergrab is great for re-gluing the bracing and also reinforcing the internal joints.

ZLTFUL

On an unrelated note, what's the monster Garrett for?

lawdogg

MrBuhl wrote: »

Hi Lawdogg - I'll take a stab at it - though there are much more experienced folks on PF.

ZLTFUL wrote: »

It's oak veneer. And many of those stains and scratches are deep enough that you will have sanded through the veneer before you get rid of them.

Loctite Powergrab is great for re-gluing the bracing and also reinforcing the internal joints.

Thank you very much for the pointers, MrBuhl and ZLTFUL. I will try the hot iron trick for the wax, will pick up some Locktite Power Grab, and will order myself a new set of speaker terminals. With the tops, I suppose I will try my luck sanding before looking into a re-veneer project.

These were an impulse buy (following the "always buy all bi-amped speakers you see at Goodwill" rule); I picked them up not knowing much about them, but after listening to them, I do plan on keeping them for sure. I can't believe how good they sound now, without any upgrades. The speakers image so well, they truly disappear.

Needless to say, I am a little nervous about drinking the koolaid around here!

ZLTFUL wrote: »

On an unrelated note, what's the monster Garrett for?

That's actually a Holset, it's for my Dodge Stealth. My main money pit.

ZLTFUL

Realized that after I eyeballed the picture a bit more. Missing the (infamous) Garrett manifold flanges. Fun car and can definitely be made into a beast.

Back on topic, the fun fact about a re-veneer is that you will have to sand anyway so you can try sanding and see where it gets you. If it fails to fix the problem, then you have already finished most of a step in the re-veneer process! Either way, you win!

Don't worry too much about the Kool Aid...it's grape flavored and tastes delicious!

F1nut

Do not sand anything yet. I'll provide more later, have to run right now.

ZLTFUL

Jesse...yer a goddamned tease, you know that?

cincycat13

He may be a tease...but he is worth waiting for...

when you start drinking the koolaid here is the alternate for your binding post issue:

http://www.version3audio.com/#!terminal-kit/c3sa

we love to help people spend money!

F1nut

Here's what you need to do. Remove the end caps. Wipe/scrub the end caps down with mineral spirits, let dry for a day. Scuff sand with 150 grit serrated sandpaper to open the pores. You'll never sand out the rings and black marks, so apply Oxalic acid following the directions. Be sure to apply it all over. If the rings and black marks are gone proceed to let them dry out for a day. If not, repeat the application of Oxalic acid. A word of warning, do NOT breath the crystals. It's best to wipe the dried crystals off with wet rags until all residue is gone, then towel dry. If there are any deep scratches you can try to swell the wood fibers back. Apply water just in the scratches, let sit for an hour. Then take a wet towel placing it evenly across the top. Use an iron on high and press down on the wet towel to create steam. Don't hold the iron in one place too long. After a couple of steam pressings that'll be as good as it gets. Any remaining scratches may sand out or will need to be filled. Let dry for a few days at least. Sand with 150 grit serrated sandpaper until the wood fibers are all knocked down and the wood is smooth. Do not over sand or with a finer grit. You are now ready to apply color and finish. Pigmented wiping stains are easy to use, but do not have the clarity of a dye. Since you have no experience you should probably stick with the pigmented stains. For the clear coat, if you have spray equipment, use lacquer. If not, something like a wiping poly finish is easy to use. I do not like oil finishes, they don't last and nothing says half a$$ quite like it.

F1nut

Another thing, the end caps are oak veneer. Oak looks best colored from an golden amber to a rich brown. It looks like dog poo when folks try to make it look like red mahogany.

ZLTFUL

One thing rookie refinishers need to be careful of is applying too much pressure when sanding. Let the sandpaper do the work. The weight of your hand/block will be plenty.
It doesn't cut as fast but it results in the best finish.

(Jesse, I was hesitant to make the same suggestion...most people are scared off by the amount of work there.)

lawdogg

F1nut (Jesse?) thank you for the great walkthrough. That sounds like a plan to me. I am a rookie, and I do not have a spray gun (no air in the garage).

I did some searching, but I couldn't find any advice on how to get the end caps off, just that they are glued on. Hammer time?

F1nut

no air in the garage

This work is best done in warm temps.

What are the donut rings in the pic with the brace?

decato

Sorry for the bad news, but the end caps are not bolted in (as in the 1.2tl and 2.3tl). The cap is the actual top and bottom of the cabinet. Someone else on the forum managed to get them off, but he essentially dismantled the cabinet in doing so. If you go this route, you will have to make sure you get the cabinet 100% sealed when reassembling everything.

F1nut

Ah yes, Brian is right. That certainly makes things a lot tougher.

Mike Reeter

Yes, you don't want to remove those caps unless you plan on replacing them, follow Jesse's directions and you should be o.k., tape off all the rest of the speakers as you don't want any sanding dust on those tacky mid-drivers or in the side panel cloth.

The back of the cabinets are covered with a Vinyl material, if you want the cheap way out to freshen them up a little, I would lightly sand them, mask off the Wiring Hookup decal, mask or remove the binding post cup and paint with a couple of cans of a Satin Black Spray Paint. The Satin finish is a cross between Gloss and Flat Black, a "fairly" close match to the original look of the Vinyl.

lawdogg

Well I suppose there's nothing to it but to do it, either way, even if the caps aren't bolted on. Now it just seems more time consuming, and after listening to these things for a couple nights, I am really resisting having to take them down.

No air in the garage - I meant no compressed air. I'm in the north bay area California so it's always pretty temperate. Mid 60's these days.

Jesse, the donut rings were both on the floor inside the cabinets when I removed the PRs. It appears they were at one point adhered to the back of the PRs, likely to diffuse reflections off of the metal PR frame (where the magnet would otherwise sit). The donuts are sort of thick construction paper with one sticky side and one felt-like side. But it appears they both lost their grip on the PRs at some point, and fell off.

F1nut

No air in the garage - I meant no compressed air. I'm in the north bay area California so it's always pretty temperate. Mid 60's these days.

Yes, I knew what you meant. Mid 60's is perfect.

the donut rings were both on the floor inside the cabinets when I removed the PRs. It appears they were at one point adhered to the back of the PRs, likely to diffuse reflections off of the metal PR frame (where the magnet would otherwise sit).

That is 100% correct. If you plan on applying Dynamat Extreme to the baskets there's no reason to glue them back on.

Since removing the end caps is going to be difficult, as suggested, tape off and entirely cover the cabinets. Instead of the normal watery mix of Oxalic acid, make a thick paste so that it stays on top. Be sure to dab a bit on the edges though.