uh oh

seabeerob213

The vinyl bug has got me. Been seeing a lot of recent threads on vinyl, and remember the couple of times I have been fortunate enough to hear it. While I don't remember what I heard it on, or even what I listened to, I remember it sounding great to me. I've been looking at pro ject, and I really like the look of the carbon debut DC, and think I may get it for myself for my birthday next month. If I get into vinyl, what else do I need to get with a TT, other than a phono IC(and obviously LPs)? Do you guys recommend the cork or acrylic plate upgrade for it?

seabeerob213

http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Ject-Debut-Carbon-DC-Blue/dp/B00IIMX734/ref=sr_1_32?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1422879008&sr=1-32&keywords=pro+ject

http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Ject-Debut-Carbon-DC-Green/dp/B00IIMX8II/ref=sr_1_33?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1422879008&sr=1-33&keywords=pro+ject

I know they're the same, just different color, but this is what I'm looking at currently

[Deleted User]

Don't do it!

seabeerob213

rednedtugent wrote: »

Don't do it!

That's what all my instincts tell me, but then, they tell me, VINYL! Just seems easier to find and get into than high quality CDs or sacds, and sounds better. Not saying those sound bad at all,

pongshi

I can't speak for everybody, but there is a lot of great vintage equipment out there. A lot of it exceeds what is available today, not only sonically, but build quality as well. This polk website has good info, but you might want to check out vinylengine.com. There are some true vinyl experts there and they have databases and libraries that will give you free downloadable manuals, specs and reviews on vinyl equipment components.

I would recommend you just do your homework. Obviously a nice quiet turntable with stable speed, a good phono stage, either purchased separately or built in to a good vintage amp, or receiver and a killer cartridge are the main components. I pretty much run nothng but vinyl in my rigs and I have been doing it for forty plus years, but I have just "scratched" the surface (poor pun). I run the older stuff and I am quite pleased with it. There is no going back once the vinyl bug bites.....you have been warned.

MrBuhl

seabeerob213 wrote: »

rednedtugent wrote: »

Don't do it!

That's what all my instincts tell me, but then, they tell me, VINYL! Just seems easier to find and get into than high quality CDs or sacds, and sounds better. Not saying those sound bad at all,

As I was told when I got back into vinyl, once you start to obsess... and you WILL obsess... there is no going back. Vinyl is getting harder to come by reasonably honestly, lots of folks getting the bug.

I run two vintage tables, but I'm debating a modern table replacement for one of them right now myself. There is a good value in vintage if you don't mind fiddling a bit.

The thing about vinyl is if you really want to get the most out of it - the vinyl and deck are only a start. Tables, cartridges to match your rig, phono stage, a quality RCM - etc etc. It's a whole separate (and deep) rabbit hole unto itself.

That being said, I'm not sorry I got back into it, nothing sounds like vinyl!

seabeerob213

I have no doubt, but the refurbing vintage gear is a lot more time and money than I can invest, been reading reviews and threads here, and elsewhere, and the project carbon seems to be a pretty solid entry choice. I know it will drag me down a new rabbit hole, and that a lot of patience and shopping around may prove to be more beneficial than getting a new one. But with my complete lack of vinyl experience, I think something all new, with a warranty and less to go wrong.

seabeerob213

MrBuhl wrote: »

seabeerob213 wrote: »

rednedtugent wrote: »

Don't do it!

That's what all my instincts tell me, but then, they tell me, VINYL! Just seems easier to find and get into than high quality CDs or sacds, and sounds better. Not saying those sound bad at all,

As I was told when I got back into vinyl, once you start to obsess... and you WILL obsess... there is no going back. Vinyl is getting harder to come by reasonably honestly, lots of folks getting the bug.

I run two vintage tables, but I'm debating a modern table replacement for one of them right now myself. There is a good value in vintage if you don't mind fiddling a bit.

The thing about vinyl is if you really want to get the most out of it - the vinyl and deck are only a start. Tables, cartridges to match your rig, phono stage, a quality RCM - etc etc. It's a whole separate (and deep) rabbit hole unto itself.

That being said, I'm not sorry I got back into it, nothing sounds like vinyl!

Is this something I can get into without buying all those separately yo start? The pro ject comes with a cartridge, but will it play without a stage or RCM? looking to get a start, not looking to dive in yet, just get my feet wet.

msg

I was seduced by Vinyl sometime last summer. That gold digging... nevermind.

It was definitely chill and relaxing, and made for a nice musical atmosphere. I really enjoyed this aspect, but in the end I made myself return the tt, because, talk about rabbit holes? Switching to vinyl is a HUGE one!

Here's what I discovered:
1. It was noisy - you might (will?) need a good record cleaning system, especially if you're buying used records
2. I found it tremendously inconvenient compared to my usual streaming method of music access
3. It was expensive for the albums I was looking for, and
4. I don't like waiting for records to arrive
5. I don't like having to flip them over
6. I didn't like not being able to run playlists.

I know you didn't ask, so, not trying to discourage you, maybe just help you to sidestep a potential pitfall, so if I may offer these tips - since it's super easy to get completely sucked in, as you're probably finding

1. Buy a tt from a place you can return it within 30 days - like Amazon, yes - and keep all the boxes and packing materials
2. Buy just a few of your favorite albums just to see how you like it first. I had only 5 or 6, and those cost me about $350
(and then, you might become a vinyl snob real quick, and find that you want everything on double LP and/or 180g.)

I really enjoyed it while I dabbled, but the bottom line was that it just wasn't a good fit after what I'd grown accustomed to. Also, maybe if I didn't need to rebuy a lot of my music on vinyl it would have had more of a place in my system? It was going to be too expensive.

MrBuhl

Sorry - I've been misleading.

The RCM is a Record Cleaning Machine, so yes, you don't need that absolutely, but it will make one of the biggest impacts in enjoying your vinyl if you decide it's for you.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think you need a stage for Pro-Ject tables, you can get that pretty inexpensively (I think John is selling a good Pro-Ject box in the flea market very reasonably in fact) but your preamp or receiver may already have a phono stage. Check that out as it's the cheapest solution for getting your feet wet.

You could also just get an inexpensive Audio Technica table (I think AT60) which includes the phono stage and will get your feet wet before you decide if you really want to go whole hog. The only problem with that is you'll definitely want to upgrade if the bug bites you.

I hope I'm helping and not making things worse!

seabeerob213

I have found a little of that so far, I'm sure I'll find a lot more of it if I pursue this.

pongshi

Today's music is fastfood and instant gratification. You get exactly what you want, when you want it, and where you want it in a digital convenient format. Vinyl is a hands on experience. You become personally involved. You have to clean a record and stylus, you can't take it anywhere you want, you can't always do everything instantly, and sometimes what you want may not be available, but........

Vinyl offers you artwork to enjoy, often lyrics are available in the sleeves. You find out who the artists were, where the record was produced, and plenty of other stuff. It is a deeper musical experience. It is a better shared experience in that you invite people over to share a record or you lend a record to someone. Even the lending of a record is hands on and personable. It's not just a digital download or emailing a file. For pre 80s music, you are getting the music in its original analog format. I could go on and on, but it's more than just the music by itself.

[Deleted User]

There are people that would argue that CD's have better dynamic range and
of course there is HDtracks. If you already have a bunch of CDs I would suggest
a good DAC. You'll get more detailed information than you ever knew was there.

I'm on my third LP collection after a friend gave me his old TT and I dug out my wife's
old LP's. I had already become nostalgic for old SS receivers. I'm over 900 LPs in about three years. The new vinyl is for the most part great if not pricey.

I'm sure you have thought about care and feeding of vinyl as well. Good hunting!

seabeerob213 wrote: »

rednedtugent wrote: »

Don't do it!

That's what all my instincts tell me, but then, they tell me, VINYL! Just seems easier to find and get into than high quality CDs or sacds, and sounds better. Not saying those sound bad at all,

boston1450

I love the feel/sound of Vinyl. Take it in baby steps & you will enjoy it. You can buy records for great prices too. .99 to under 20.00/50.00 new. I limit my new ones to once/every other month because of prices. I bought a brand new Halestorm awhile back on discount for 16.99. Look for discounts. Look on Clist for people selling their whole collection. I bought 400 minty albums for 15.00 because they were moving. Kept 100 & sold off 300 & made someone else happy. Dont bury yourself too deep buying expensive ones. I go to record stores & sometimes spend 2 hours & walk out buying 4-12 albums for 4.99-8.99 per album... Buy a cheap record cleaning machine on the bay. Utube & ask how to do things & most of all enjoy the fun of vinyl. Buying a decent turntable in begining is a Big Plus. Not someones used one that can die tomorrow (i own used ones-no disrespect all). But if your not good with turntables New is the way to go. Then later on upgrade to far better ones up the chain. Enjoy

pongshi

I will add one more thing and then shut up for a bit. You can buy a record cleaning machine, but I think you can get pretty good results with the following:
1. Microfiber cloths
2. Spray bottle (I use a 32oz.)
3. Isopropyl alcohol (I use 90% or better)
4. Distilled water
5. Dawn dishwashing liquid
6. I run 3/4 distilled water and 1/4 alcohol with one drop of Dawn in the 32 oz. spray bottle

[Deleted User]

Agree 100% with Boston.
OTOH, a new belt off ebay and some of Mom's sewing machine
oil and I was good to go. Got the specs off vinylengine and re-balance
the ole Rotel and I was in business.

If I buy used vinyl it is .99 to 5 bucks. This stuff is 40-50 years old.
I'm never disappointed that way. It would have to be something
special for > $5.00. New is cool on record store day as releases of
rare stuff happen. (you have crossed over to collector then)

have fun!

gudnoyez

http://www.needledoctor.com/Ortofon-2M-Blue-Phono-Cartridge

IF your going to get that table get from these guys and have them upgrade the ortofon to the 2m blue if your going to get your feet wet might as well get the better cartridge, I'm sure they ship to APO addresses.

You will need a cleaning system for your LPs a anti static gun, stylus brush and cleaner all what can be purchased at the needle doctor. A young man such as yourself will have a real nice vinyl set up going this route go for it.

seabeerob213

Is it a big increase to upgrade? Also, will be back in the states soon enough.

gudnoyez

msg wrote: »

I was seduced by Vinyl sometime last summer. That gold digging... nevermind.

It was definitely chill and relaxing, and made for a nice musical atmosphere. I really enjoyed this aspect, but in the end I made myself return the tt, because, talk about rabbit holes? Switching to vinyl is a HUGE one!

Here's what I discovered:


1. Buy a tt from a place you can return it within 30 days - like Amazon, yes - and keep all the boxes and packing materials
2. Buy just a few of your favorite albums just to see how you like it first. I had only 5 or 6, and those cost me about $350
(and then, you might become a vinyl snob real quick, and find that you want everything on double LP and/or 180g.)

5 or 6 albums for $350? Where you buying them at pretty pricey indeed

I can go to the record store down the road here and get 35-40 in mint condition, for $350, the best part is I can spend hours going through the bins looking at all that vinyl goodness.

seabeerob213

Yeah, just amazoned some of my favorites, some were great prices, some were upwards of 500.00, and there were a lot of singles on there. I love how dropkick Murphys have all their albums available in a couple different vinyls as well as cdand digital download, and it looks like all rthe vinyl can be had under two bones, but I think to get the better ones, you need to buy seperatw and not the box set. Red hot chili peppers vinyl has never been hard for me to find d used, so shouldn't be a problem there.

[Deleted User]

I agree with a couple mods:
I use 7th generation free and clear dishwashing liquid (about 2-3 drops per 10oz.)
80-20 alcohol to distilled water.
I have a wash and a rinse bottle.
3 or 4 brushes (buy the old felt off ebay if you can)
discwasher d4+ for spot treatment
I've tried a kinetronics model 70 anti-static brush w some success but
I'm alway afraid I'm going to add scratches. YMMY.
I love the mofi original master sleeves and
I've tried their 'One' cleaning solution. I was hoping for a grade step-up
after a cleaning and playing thru once but it was more like 1/2 a grade.
(fair to good, good to vg ect.)

If you are buying new vinyl you don't have to worry about most of this.

pongshi wrote: »

I will add one more thing and then shut up for a bit. You can buy a record cleaning machine, but I think you can get pretty good results with the following:
1. Microfiber cloths
2. Spray bottle (I use a 32oz.)
3. Isopropyl alcohol (I use 90% or better)
4. Distilled water
5. Dawn dishwashing liquid
6. I run 3/4 distilled water and 1/4 alcohol with one drop of Dawn in the 32 oz. spray bottle

mhardy6647

No need to get obsessive about playing records.

There's some decent and reasonably affordable modern hardware (if a bit stark); conversely, there are still fine old pieces that are cost effective. Even at this late date, you simply cannot go wrong with a well-kept mid-late 1970s Technics direct drive consumer turntable. I really didn't appreciate them back in their time (I was a Euro-tt snob, big time) but the Technics DDs were - and are - the Toyota Camry (or Honda Accord, if you prefer) of turntables. Unexciting but competent and dependable. Still are.

white vinyl by mhardy6647, on Flickr

Heck, the most-used tt at my house is a Technics DD I picked up from the "take it or leave it" pile at our erstwhile town dump in Harvard, MA. A Marantz (Clearaudio) TT-15S1 sits in its factory box... it certainly looks more impressive (and it was a heck of a lot 'spensiver), but it doesn't perform any better; and the CA Satisfy arm isn't really heavy enough for the low-compliance LOMC I am currently most enamored with.

TT15S12 by mhardy6647, on Flickr

Records are still reasonably readily and cost-effectively available used, and we've seen an upswing in available new records (although quality is somewhat variable).

In terms of cleaning records -- for clean records,a good brush is really all that's "needed". For cruddy records, it's OK to use a brute force cleaning method. I have and use a set of the "Disc Doctor" brushes (these are now either sold as MoFi brushes or maybe under Acoustic Sounds or some the retailer's brand -- I can't remember now). Yes, an RCM is nice -- but they're very expensive; a starter record playing system doesn't "demand" the ownership of one.

Just my opinions, of course -- albeit hardly humble ones.

spinnin2 by mhardy6647, on Flickr

gudnoyez

seabeerob213 wrote: »

Is it a big increase to upgrade? Also, will be back in the states soon enough.

A little over a hundred bones do it right the first time if you can swing the 2m blue it is the one above the 2m red.

seabeerob213

mhardy6647 wrote: »

No need to get obsessive about playing records.

There's some decent and reasonably affordable modern hardware (if a bit stark); conversely, there are still fine old pieces that are cost effective. Even at this late date, you simply cannot go wrong with a well-kept mid-late 1970s Technics direct drive consumer turntable. I really didn't appreciate them back in their time (I was a Euro-tt snob, big time) but the Technics DDs were - and are - the Toyota Camry (or Honda Accord, if you prefer) of turntables. Unexciting but competent and dependable. Still are.

Heck, the most-used tt at my house is a Technics DD I picked up from the "take it or leave it" pile at our erstwhile town dump in Harvard, MA. A Marantz (Clearaudio) TT-15S1 sits in its factory box... it certainly looks more impressive (and it was a heck of a lot 'spensiver), but it doesn't perform any better; and the CA Satisfy arm isn't really heavy enough for the low-compliance LOMC I am currently most enamored with.

Records are still reasonably readily and cost-effectively available used, and we've seen an upswing in available new records (although quality is somewhat variable).

In terms of cleaning records -- for clean records,a good brush is really all that's "needed". For cruddy records, it's OK to use a brute force cleaning method. I have and use a set of the "Disc Doctor" brushes (these are now either sold as MoFi brushes or maybe under Acoustic Sounds or some the retailer's brand -- I can't remember now). Yes, an RCM is nice -- but they're very expensive; a starter record playing system doesn't "demand" the ownership of one.

Just my opinions, of course -- albeit hardly humble ones.

Albeit, mhardly humble? Lol, I have no perobelwm buying used gear, but this is somewhere where I wanna get decent quality returnable/warrantied gear, with all new components, because I don't wanna run into problems of rwaking something while replacing something else, because I've never used a TT before. Plus I like the simple look of those pro jects, but aesthetics is a lesser reason to make a choice.

tonyb

I would say if you value your wallet, forget you ever heard vinyl to begin with.

seabeerob213

tonyb wrote: »

I would say if you value your wallet, forget you ever heard vinyl to begin with.

You may need to to come knock me over the head, because for some reason I want it too much, lol

gudnoyez

tonyb wrote: »

I would say if you value your wallet, forget you ever heard vinyl to begin with.

Now Now Tony don't go discouraging the young lad, I think we have all opened are wallets a time or to due to some of your recommendations

tonyb

LOL....I hear ya bro. Just want the young man to know what he's getting into. Seems some are covering those bases anyway.

chumlie

You may want to hold off till you get back home. Transporting all that gear and records too, is gonna be a pain.

mhardy6647

oh, two things I forgot...

1) There are two tricks to buying used. First trick, make sure the tt hasn't been abused. Generally that'll be "cosmetically" obvious; but at the least, be sure to check the arm and its mount for any obvious damage and check the bearings (as best you can) for play. These are the sort of things that can render an old deck just a paperweight :- (

The second trick: buy local!!! As a working assumption, no one knows how to successfully pack a turntable to survive 21st Century shipping! :-P Of course, all generalizations are false, including this one ;- ) But, by and large, the eBAY crowd has no clue as to how to pack a tt properly; the safest and easiest course of action is just to avoid the issue altogether and buy locally.


2) If you want to go crazy... heh... then go crazy :- )

DSC_5243 by mhardy6647, on Flickr

Not mine (probably goes without saying) -- but what it is is a beautiful Garrard 301 with (I think) a Thomas Shick arm and an electromagnet cartridge. Nice piece of hardware; sounds great, too.

seabeerob213

Chum, I'll be headed home sometime very soon, will be home when I do finally decide to make this venture.