Upgrade just the Center

dowop

I have Tsi,s 400 with a sub & cs-20 center with t-15,s surrounds.
I was pretty much satisfied with everything till I moved to new place.
The center now sounds muddy. I am using a Yamaha Rx\ A740 & have to run the eq in manual & lower the first 3 settings & raise the rest to make it sound half way decent.
Crutchfield told me I could upgrade the center to the CSi A6 & it would work great even with my Tsi 400,s.
Any advice would be appreciated.

dowop

It is angled up in a stand on the edge.

tonyb

Check your connections, make sure if your using bare wire not to get any of the plastic coating inside a speaker or receiver post.

dowop

Using Banana Plugs & I already checked that.
Still wondering if CSi A6 would Match.

WLDock

Move your speakers around to see if there is a problem with the speaker or the amp channel. Ex., move the center to the left and the left to the center, etc.

dowop

I used YPAO & every thing checks out ok. They all sound a muddy. They also sounded muddy using a Onkyo receiver. It must be the room in the new place I moved into.
I can get it to sound almost decent using manual eq.

tonyb

You need to do more than manual equalization. Go into the menu and set all speaker levels to 0, plug in manually the distances, check all other available settings to make sure they jive.....crossover settings, speakers set to small/large, etc.

What size room is this in and how far away from the walls is the front 3 speakers ? If all the speakers sound muddy, something is amiss with your settings or placement....or both.

dowop

Speakers are 2ft from the walls.Room is 28-20. Yes something is amiss.
I have done all your suggestions.
Thanks for trying to help.

TNHNDYMAN

dowop wrote: »

I have Tsi,s 400 with a sub & cs-20 center with t-15,s surrounds.
I was pretty much satisfied with everything till I moved to new place.
The center now sounds muddy. I am using a Yamaha Rx\ A740 & have to run the eq in manual & lower the first 3 settings & raise the rest to make it sound half way decent.
Crutchfield told me I could upgrade the center to the CSi A6 & it would work great even with my Tsi 400,s.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Dowop- 1st of all, welcome to Club Polk. In order to help you, you are going to have to provide a lot more information concerning your setup. DSkip and Tony know what they are talking about and can give you loads of great advice, but they are shooting in the dark right now because your problem is too vague.

I will try to offer a few general observations and then ask you to provide more information so that someone can better help you.

A 20 x 28 room is pretty darn big. Based on the other speakers in your setup, your sub is most likely a lower level Polk sub like a PSW110 and it has no chance to pressurize that space. You will be lucky to get arm **** sounds during explosion scenes in most movies considering it's capability and the room size. Most likely you will need to find a much better sub as soon as finances allow.

The Yamaha receiver you list is a middle tier AVR that is going to be struggling to provide enough watts to your 5.1 setup. If it has pre outs to add an external amp for your front L and R speakers in the future that would be a good option to consider. If not you may be better off with an upper level Adventage Yamaha AVR, Pioneer Elite AVR, or maybe something from Marantz to better meet your needs in that large of a room.

As to the manual EQ settings.... It is not clear what you mean by "lower the first 3 settings and raise the rest". Is this EQ only, or are you changing crossover points or level settings from what the auto calibration suggested? You may get a better baseline by doing a full manual calibration for your speakers by measuring the levels with a basic Radio Shack dB meter and entering the distance of speakers from your listening position. Without more info though it's hard to help you here.

It's always best to double check all connections and hookups of components when problems arise, but it seems as if you've done that and the issue became apparent when your listening area changed. If you were happy with the sound before but now feel that it's "muddy", unless a speaker got damaged in the move, it is most likely a room issue.

Would it be possible for you to provide some pictures of the space and/or at least a description of the layout. IE... how far away are you sitting from the front/center speakers. Does the room have carpet, hardwood floors, or tile? How much furniture or other sound absorbing décor do you have there? If it's hardwood or tile, then you have a very reflective surface as well as how many windows and doors in the area and where are they in relation to the listening position can greatly influence the sound you are hearing.

Lastly, you made no mention of your sources or listening mode. You need to clarify if you are listening to basic TV show, a Blu-ray movie, or a 2 ch stereo listening such as CD's or mp3 thru an iPod. If a movie, then is it Blu-ray thru HDMI and are you getting hi res audio, or just 5.1 Dolby sound? For cd's or streaming what is your music source (computer, iPod, ect)? If you have the Yamaha receiver in one of the generic surround modes such as stadium, hall, or all channel stereo, then that would most likely be less than satisfying overall.

Please understand I am not trying to bash your choice of speakers or equipment. What you have may be great for a smaller sized room, but in that space it could be a weak link to your listening pleasure. There are many wonderful people on this forum that will be glad to help you in any way they can, but first you must provide more info.

dowop

I am talking about changing the eq settings in the manual mode. The room is carpeted.I am running a Paradigm sub 12 that was with the Paradigms that also sounded Muddy in that room. I started out using a onkyo 3009 in that room.
All I wanted to know was if the CSi A6 center would work with the TSI`S.
The general consensus seems to be no.
I might add that I had Klipsch Reference series in the room but they were a little to bright. I use the system mainly for tv & movies.
I just may go back to the Klipsch.
Thanks again to every one who tried to help.

TNHNDYMAN

Yes the CSi A6 is a better center speaker than the CS20. Will it work with the TSi's. That depends. It's not a perfect timbre match so you may notice a difference in sound when it starts on the left side of a scene and moves across the room to the center and then to the right speaker during a movie. Some people are very sensitive to that difference and try to always timbre match the front stage of their system.

Personally, I'm not that picky. I even increase the level of my center speaker after auto calibration (meaning I increase the output level of center compared to the L and R channels) in order to make dialogue from normal TV listening easier to distinguish. When watching a high quality soundtrack from a Blu-ray movie I just drop the level back down to the baseline that the receiver wanted during auto calibration.

Please understand that I was not trying to be too critical of your system. I was trying to push you to provide more information about your setup so that others could provide decent advice to you. Only you know what your system sounds like in your room, so that makes it very difficult to pinpoint the problems and help with so little information to go on.

Based on you admitting that the Paradigms were muddy as well and the fact that you tried them with a onkyo 3009, which I would consider a big step up in quality from the Yamaha then it still appears to me that the biggest problem you are dealing with is the room itself. Although the Paradigm Sub 12 is much more capable than an entry level Polk sub, any subwoofer will struggle in that size of a room. You may have to consider a dual sub setup to optimize things there.

Back to your original query concerning the CSi A6....

Why not just buy one from Best Buy or another retailer that has a decent return policy and try it first in your system. If not satisfied, then just return it and look into other solutions.

Good luck.

Lietuvis91

I wonder if covering the rear port would help to clean the sound up. Some rear ported speakers actually come with a plug from the manufacturer. Maybe tape a piece of paper over the rear port or shove a sock in there, just be careful not to damage anything. Might be worth a shot.

dowop

I am a old retired coot that started in the late 70`s with a Sansui Receiver & JBL Speakers.
I forgot all about plugging the rear port.
I just did that & it does make a difference. You may have just saved me $400.00.
Thank You.

dowop

Ok, I will go back to square one. I pulled the plug out cause I do not want to destroy all the R&D the designers put into it & I also do not want to run my system with a band-aid.

dowop

No sarcasm. Like I said "I am a old coot"& I surely do not want to get into those compounding prescriptions or band-aid thing or make R&D mad.
I pulled the plug.

tonyb

dowop wrote: »

No sarcasm. Like I said "I am a old coot"& I surely do not want to get into those compounding prescriptions or band-aid thing or make R&D mad.
I pulled the plug.

No worries pal, we have a lot of "old coots" around here including myself. What Dskip is trying to do is narrow down the problem for you. All speakers sounding muddy is usually a settings issue or room/placement issue.

If the Klipsch did well in that room, then put them back in and grab yourself some warmer sounding cables to counter their brightness.

dowop

I contacted Paradigm & they said to plug the center. They even recommended it.
So I just got done moving speakers & running YPAO & everything sounds fine.
I could have put the Klipsch back in but did want to go out & buy the warmer sounding cables.
I am in Ohio & it is cold out.