Evo’s, room issues, and speaker hunt.

erniejade

My room acoustics are bad. I tried many configurations and I could get things to sound ok or passible, there was still things that bugged me about the sound. Over the last year or so, I have gone through A LOT of speakers, tried different preamps and a few different amps. My wife thinks I am nuts but, still supported me trying to get this room to sound right.

After GIK said there isn’t much they could do to help me, I was at the point of giving up and just going headphones to keep some of my sanity ( I do have a few pairs of Sony, Koss and the psb m4u2) until I went and visited a few local places to listen to different speakers.

1st up, Audio Consultants. I listed to a set of B&W PM1 and 805D. I did not get a good accurate depiction of what these speakers can do. The room they had them in was horrible. When I mean horrible, I mean outside of little things, the b&w and maggies sounded close and had the same echo hollow sound because of this ½ circle room with a middle peak that was cut out in the roof. While it looked nice, it gave everything I listened to it a bad sound. I thought my room acoustics were bad! So I listened to them close range. The pm1, open, clean and not in your face, mellow sounding but still had a lot of detail. This speaker I still want to take home for a weekend trial just to hear it in my rig.

The 805D, A very bold speaker in it’s price range. By bold I mean in your face bold. It pulls a lot of detail and shoves it down your throat. For it’s size, It can defiantly put out. I can see why there is a lot of love for this speaker. It is almost ruthless when it comes to a lesser quality recording but on a good recording, it can shine but, again, it’s a bit bold for my taste. This might be different on tubes though or on my rig at home. Both speakers had this hollow sound to them. When I talked to the dealer in that room, his voice had the same hollow sound that bugged me. I had him put on the maggies that were next to them and they had the same hollow sound that bugged me so that room had to be what was making them sound bad.

Part 2 Coming. I wanted to split this up to make it easier and also so I didn't keep loosing it.

erniejade

I left Audio consultants and went to Holm Audio. They also have a weekend in home trial. You pick it up on Saturday, they are closed Sunday and Monday, bring it back on Tuesday.
I spent a lot of time here. After researching I wanted to listen to a set of KEF Ls50 since a lot of reviews said they were not room dependent. They are and they aren’t. I liked what I heard in the store and brought them home for a weekend trial. They were open, clean, huge soundstage for a small speaker and a lot more bass then I expected. Again, the 2 sets of B&W might have also been but, the room sucked and I didn’t take them home. I still might just to give them a fair fight. The setup at Holm was much better. More on the Kef at home in a little bit. All listening at Holm was done on a Rogue tube amp, prima luna tube cd and preamp.
Next up, Dali Ikon MK2. This speaker had a lot of bass, OK mid and the highs were a bit screeching to me. There was also a hollow sound to it as well. It just seemed out of balance. It could be it didn’t like the electronics associated with it so I did research this speaker when I got home and found a utube video that actually sounds like what I heard even though it is a utube video, it’s kind of close


https://youtube.com/watch?v=rG0fGaqtAgY

tonyb

Imho....the Evo's are still a better speaker than what you've listened to so far. They not floating your boat in that room obviously ?

I know you said that room is a temporary situation, may have to just suck it up with what you have until a good size room becomes available.

erniejade

Next up PSB Imagine T. This is a small floor standing speaker that sounds way bigger than it should. I was impressed but not impressed enough to take it home. So I left with the KEF. New, for it’s price range, it really is an outstanding speaker. The sweet spot is much wider than anyone would think. Teamed up with a sub it was darn good but, again, in my room not right. I brought them back to Holm. While I was there, they had the Sony SS AR1 playing. They are not in my price range but, wow. Nice work Sony!
OK back to it! While Neil and I were talking ( the guy from Holm) he said if one way I have no bass, the other way it’s ringy, the other way it’s thin, the thin wall and the bass wall are adjoining yes? I asked what do you mean? He said, if the 2 walls are next to each other and not complete opposite sides of the room, corner load them in the same corner, not opposite corners and 2 different walls. Since your room has an opening to the hallway, put a chair by the opening to the hallway and put the speakers diagonal in the same corner. Your room is not conventional, why not try something unconventional? So I moved the McBeast amp to allow me to move the speakers and SOB it worked!

Paul from PSB was in town the next week showing off his new Imagine T3. Nice speaker! Well balanced, solid fast bass and just a fantastic sounding speaker but, close to 8K in price is a bit out of my range. He suggested I try the Imagine T2. So, I took them home. Here is where the real shootout starts. I have my acoustic issue figured out, I have a set of Evo M1, Legacy focus, polk lsi9, and PSB Imagine t2 in my home and a nice bottle of Palazzolo Borolo wine and I am ready for my shootout. The wife and kids at this point are completely tired of the same 6 or 7 songs played over and over. I didn’t have the PSB long enough to keep them in for a week or 2 so, the shootout begins!

erniejade

The psb t2



Evo next to the psb t2

erniejade

Why do pics keep coming out sideways when I upload them? Excuse the wire mess also. Since I was flipping around I kept moving things and had to keep moving the lamp.

erniejade

First up, Evo. I have had them for a bit now but, this config FINALLY sounds right in the room. So, single corner, opposite walls, where I am sitting is by the room opening about 7 feet away, the speakers are only about 4 feet apart but, produce one hell of a wide sound stage. The mids are clean and a bit up front. Top end is smooth and not ringy anymore! The speakers are very good but, I still felt a bit bass shy on things like Fleetwood Mac or harder rock so I hooked up the Velo sub. It was a bit harder to get dialed in with the sub but, once I did, much better. I kept them in for a couple of hours and listen to my normal range of stuff from the Beatles Love, Fleetwood Mac Sarah & Brown Eyes, Nat king Cole the very thought of you, Stank, you shook me, Get Behind the Mule from the audiogon wake up your ears sampler and george ezra Budapest. With the sub they all sounded great but, still felt like something was missing or not quite right. I can’t put my finger on it. Neither can my wife. ( yep I had her listen to them all as well) Changed over to the Polk lsi9. With the sub off, the bass on the polks was better vs the evo’s but, too thick and kind of clouded the lower midrange to bass area and we quickly put the evo’s back on. Much better LOL. They are a fantastic sounding speaker. I just must like a lot of bass or something. Could be my ears from years of DJ behind the speakers ( I do use molded ear plugs with a -15db) has made me think there isn't enough bass on things. The evo's do mid and highs well. One hell of a sound stage. With a sub, they do a lot right.

erniejade

Next up, PSB Imagine t2. This speaker new can run $3500-4k depending on what finish you had. 1st off, this speaker sounds way bigger than it looks. The Imagine T2 is NOT in your face like some of the older PSB products I have heard. The top end is much sweeter as well. Not fatiguing, not too in your face and I would recommend taking a listen to this speaker ( and the T3 but $$$$. Wait for it to be on the used market). PSB change their sound and I like it. Well balanced, solid fast sharp bass for it’s size. The sub was off for this speaker. I felt it didn’t need it. If you have a local place that offers a in home weekend trial, check them out. They might surprise you like they did me. They do a lot right, easy to live with and soundstage is darn close to the evo’s. Top end is just as smooth as the evo’s. I think the mid is actually a bit better vs the evo’s especially on female vocals.

next up, the old focus

erniejade

I almost sold the focus. I had them for sale and pulled the sale when this shootout happened. Now, it could be because I am just used to big speakers because that is all I have owned in the past, but, the shootout was down to the PSB and the legacy. While the evo’s were darn good, the wife and I felt the psb T2 was a hair better. Now what could be missing on the Evo’s? Most of the reviews I have read, people had them well away from room boundaries. In my room, that is not possible. I can’t get 3-4 feet from the side or back walls. I am not saying they are bad, quite the opposite, they are darn good and perform well above their size but, in my room we felt like there was something missing and we couldn’t put our fingers on it. So for my room, it was down to the Legacy and the psb.

I did learn something while having the legacy’s up for sale. Even though I have the original version, I have the 2nd version of the original. If the person I talked to was correct, the newer version of the original had concave woofers where the original woofers stuck out in the center. So mine are the innies not outies lol. Now for those that haven’t heard the original legacy focus, you might think they would be in your face kind of sound but, they are not. They are more laid back in the mid and upper range, or at least mine are. They have a LOT of bass. Too much in this config until I flipped the switch down in the back and now it was much more balanced for this room. The focus has 3 switches in the back to go 0 or -3 db for the bass mid and treb. The top end does not fatigue, nor does the mid. however, the bottom can! The PSB & evo’s sound more lively but on some vocals can get a hair nasal like james taylor ( who has a nasal sound anyway) where the legacy just kind of has them there. More like vandersteen on steroids. The legacy are also more forgiving on poor recordings. They are accurate but not accurate……. How to describe this statement. The evo’s and the psb might be more accurate but, on some recordings, the legacy just sounded more musical and easier to listen to. While I want the “truth” in sound, I also want to be able and sit with it for a few hours while I have a glass of wine or whatever I feel that night and have the music take me back to a memory or just escape the world for a bit. For now, with the legacy, I can do that. With the evo’s something kept preventing me from doing that. The PSB was darn close but, the hair more mellow sound of the legacy for now is it.

On a side note, for me, it’s funny how some music, or a smell can put you right back in a place for a moment. Like if I hear George Mccrae Rock Your Baby, it puts me in the back seat of my parents Gremlin in New jersey or Gilbert O’Sullivan Alone Again, Naturally puts me in the back of the 73 Catalina going to visit my grandmother in Manhattan since it seems like every time we went, those songs were on the radio. Enough sentimental crap!

I think most of us know what gear I have but, I will list it in case any new people are looking. McIntosh MC402, AR sp16 pre and I used the Telefunken tubes for this round of listening, Cayin tube SACD, HP laptop Jriver into w4s dac2, DH labs air matrix IC, Doug alpha & the DH q10 for speaker. I liked Dougs alpha a bit better on all rounds.

erniejade

https://youtube.com/watch?v=VHrLPs3_1Fs

Side note 2, if you haven't heard this kid yet, the entire cd I enjoyed quite a bit. it should be released soon. I got the import a few months ago.

Sorry for the realllyyyyy long post.
Also, while I was at Holm, they had that new sony player. I was shocked on how good that was also. We did a demo and I had a usb stick with some flac files on it. Put it on the NAD player they had, then the sony. The sony I guess converts it to DSD. It sounded better every time!

erniejade

Skip, 1st I owe you a huge public thank you. What folks here probably didn't realize, he and I were blowing up each others PM for a while. A great guy to talk to btw. he tried to help me get the best config out of my room as well as just a nice person to chat with.

I truly think its my room. Again, every time I read about the evo's, they had them well away from boundaries.

Also, A couple of the songs I did use were not through the w4s, they were sacd via the tube cayin. I am still waiting on the tube Soul dac. Hopefully in a few more months I should have that one I showed you. I agree the w4s is darn good but analytical. Personal Preference.

That said, that Sony has my interest peaked since I heard it. The same flac files after sony did its thing to them importing them to the sony did sound better. Kind of like CD vs SACD. I am temped to take it home for a weekend since Holm is offering an in home trial of that as well. I just wanted to hold off on buying anything else till the tube Soul is here since its bought and paid for.

For those who don't know about the Soul, I have one of the Geek out usb class A dac/headphone amps. I liked it so much I took a chance on a tube soul. I am one of the early people in on it. https://indiegogo.com/projects/geek-audio-a-crowdsourced-high-rez-sound-system
You will have to scroll down to the soul. They are offering a ton of stuff right now.

erniejade

On another side note, if you haven't heard this kid George Ezra, I am digging the entire cd. I got the import. I should be released in the USA soon. Check him out.
https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0LEVzImfpRUD_sA5LpXNyoA;_ylc=X1MDMjc2NjY3OQRfcgMyBGZyA3lmcC10LTkwMS1zBGdwcmlkA3J4aTVReFVaU2FPZ1hWRmlReDdOLkEEbl9yc2x0AzAEbl9zdWdnAzkEb3JpZ2luA3NlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20EcG9zAzIEcHFzdHIDZ2VvcmdlIGV6cmEgYnVkYXBlc3QgBHBxc3RybAMyMQRxc3RybAMyOARxdWVyeQNnZW9yZ2UgZXpyYSBidWRhcGVzdCB5b3V0dWJlBHRfc3RtcAMxNDE5MDE3NzMx?p=george+ezra+budapest+youtube&fr2=sa-gp-search&fr=yfp-t-901-s&fp=1

erniejade

On another side note, if you haven't heard this kid George Ezra, I am digging the entire cd. I got the import. I should be released in the USA soon. Check him out.
https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0LEVzImfpRUD_sA5LpXNyoA;_ylc=X1MDMjc2NjY3OQRfcgMyBGZyA3lmcC10LTkwMS1zBGdwcmlkA3J4aTVReFVaU2FPZ1hWRmlReDdOLkEEbl9yc2x0AzAEbl9zdWdnAzkEb3JpZ2luA3NlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20EcG9zAzIEcHFzdHIDZ2VvcmdlIGV6cmEgYnVkYXBlc3QgBHBxc3RybAMyMQRxc3RybAMyOARxdWVyeQNnZW9yZ2UgZXpyYSBidWRhcGVzdCB5b3V0dWJlBHRfc3RtcAMxNDE5MDE3NzMx?p=george+ezra+budapest+youtube&fr2=sa-gp-search&fr=yfp-t-901-s&fp=1

tonyb

Earn, nice write up pal. I think your description of the Focus, at least the originals are spot on. Accurate....but not, lol. They are accurate, just not to the point of having that edge of emphasis that can drive you out of a room. A very musical speaker that you won't get fatigued listening to for long sessions. Downside is they need room to breath due to that bass they produce. I was wondering if you sold them yet, saw your ad on Craigslist.

Other than that, WOW man, your rolling speakers like crazy. All good ones to boot. Certainly is a **** when you can't nail down that synergy thing.

erniejade

Thanks Tony. I pulled the add right after the shootout. I am going to keep them for a bit longer I think. It was a crazy ride that is for sure. Room acoustics can drive you crazy!!! I never once thought of corner loading into a single corner. Not only does it give me the right amount of bass, the whole room sounds good even if your walking around in it. If I tried that in any other room it would probably sound horrible. I have them a little bit closer to the back walls to give me 8 feet distance.

Time to sell some stuff off. I have the evo's on Audiogon as well as craigs list. I will also put them up in the for sale in a bit.

erniejade

For you I would do payments lol .

tonyb

I'd make him work it off Earn, word has it Skip's very proficient at Pedicures.

voltz

I still want to hear about the LS50's also.

tonyb

Do a search, I know others have picked up those speaks.

erniejade

The ls50 is an amazing speaker for its size and price @1500 new for a set. A suprising amount of bass. It has a bigger sweet spot of most of the speakers I have heard. They can get ringy though on some music. Even though I am a dj by weekend since I was a kid ( im 46 now) my ears were always sensitive to ringy or certain frequencies that would drive me batty. Some live music also drives me crazy so I have used molded earplugs with a -15db to keep my hearing and keep the ringy tolerable. Others though at the same show or same speaker dont hear it or it doesnt bother them so it could just be me or my taste. The do vocals and piano well.. actually better than well, outstanding but for me the deal breaker on them was the slight ringy when pushed. They can also get quite loud and were easy to drive. They do a lot right, not picky on placement, and again, when listening you forget how small they are till you look up!.

tonyb

Earn, would you say that ringing on the LS50'S are a characteristic of the speaker themselves, or a result of being pushed too hard ?

erniejade

Themselves. I also heard it slightly at the store as well but the sales person could not or he just wasnt as sensitive to them but another customer in the store could. He said I hear what your earing to me. The sales person had a darn good ear also but maybe he just wasnt as sensitive to some high frequencies.

Like the Joseph pulsar we both loved. They do a lot right and we both made the same comments on the music I brought. At home the kef was a little less probably due to the mcintosh amp but I could still hear it where as the joseph and the psb t2 I could not at all.

Side note, I didnt bring the joseph home. I didnt want to be too tempted to shell out 7700$ ( aka credit card). That is a speaker that has the highs right and mids. Although the new psb imagine t3, at the same price range as the Joseph, I would have chose the psb!. This new series is that good. The t2 /3 when they go used will be a good speaker to look out for.
What they said it shares a lot of the sync 1but I havent heard the sync 1 so I can't comment on the sound.