Polk Audio Shareholders

oldrocker

I don’t post much anymore as I’m not as knowledgeable as most on this forum, yet I still visit somewhat as I am always in need of Polk Audio product referral information.

That being said, when I joined this place in 2012 I had acquired a set of SDA’s more by accident and I did get some excellent advice on just how good Polk Audio products are from some very intelligent owners of Polk Audio products.
However, how the Polk Audio research/marketing dept along with their business growth model tries to generate more market share is not known by those of us who are members here, I believe that Polk Audio might have missed the fact that the people on the forum are a great marketing tool to get the Polk Audio name out there. Since Polk Audio does not have a huge presence in box stores, the “word of mouth” from satisfied customers is a good thing for any company eager to grow, I’m sure Polk Audio knows “historical business data” does support that theory.

The loss of the past information from the old forum page do not appear to have been the best choice to make as it has somewhat discouraged a lot of very loyal, very passionate, very knowledge people as those people are some of the best sales people money could buy. These said members always support the Polk Audio brand even though they are not on the Polk Audio payroll.
I understand everything in business is a “sales pitch” and that, for profit organizations, must explore new directions to generate market share. I hope Polk Audio is successful and stays in the market for a very long time. However, the new page versus old page has been an adjustment for me as I did like the old format better because I don’t like change that much but more importantly for you to know, the new page “appears” to have alienated some of your long term loyal customers who every day talked Polk Audio products. I do realize some of the new page has been changed to reflect some of the wishes here and for that I thank you and yes I have become more acclimated to the new page due to necessity not choice.

I can only imagine a man named Matthew Polk and what he went through during his career. Yes he went forward, yes he made changes, he probably had some sleepless nights but he never stopped listening to those around him or his loyal customers. FYI, I have never had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Polk.

Furthermore, I have no doubt in my mind some of us still here could step up and buy some new Polk Audio products to help facilitate growth, I have done that, I have exposed my family and friends who have went on to become new customers as they have bought Polk Audio products. So ask yourself why did I buy your products? Simple, the information shared on the old forum page is where it started for me and many others as the wonderful staff of “I call them,” sales people that are here sharing information. To tell the truth, all speakers make sound, I am just so thankful, I followed the advice from the members here and had it not been for these special people here I would not be a loyal owner of Polk Audio products.

I just wonder how much more successful Polk Audio can become if this new forum still had some of the additional information on it?

kevhed72

I will always remember the family and friends deal which allowed me to buy speakers out of my price range....this in itself was a great gesture to build customer loyalty.

gudnoyez

I hope they continue to at least sell parts for thier older lines of speakers. I need to get 6 RDO 198s for the SDAs and plan on doing so at tax time. I own 7 pair of polk speakers 2 center channels and two subs sure there is no profit made on SDAs a second time on them until I purchase the RDOs but all my other speakers are new and I plan on a pair of LSIMs one of these days making it 8 pair of Polks.
I wish all the old information could be salvaged, even if it has left a bitter taste in the mouths of those that made the old forum what it was, it sure would be cool if some came back to participate once again, a lot of us are counting on them.

Upstatemax

DSkip wrote: »

I tend to push others towards other products now. Polk has been stagnant in the lower end speaker dept whilst other have dramatically stepped up their game. There is a paradigm shift now, and that is obvious since Polk no longer holds on to the "speaker specialists" dub of years past. Speakers are not their forte anymore: tech savvy products are. I still think they put out good products and continue to support growth of the company, but you have to realize it is not the same company.

In the speaker arena, they have nothing that's a game changer. The rti are still excellent for home theater, but again, they are stale now.

Being in box stores is not a good thing for higher end products. It's great market share for your entry level, but it destroys the 'mystique' of top shelf products. Their fate was determined once lsi speakers showed up at frys.

I'll agree.

The RTi line is beyond stale and they seem to keep rehashing the monitor line with almost no changes. Don't forget sub line...

The blackstone series was a HUGE letdown when I hooked them up and the headphone lines were right there with the blackstones. All were sent back for FAR better stuff for about the same $$.

What drew me to Polk in the start was the ability to deliver a product that punched well above it's price tag. Now they barely compete within their price brackets. The LSiM series seems to be the only exception, but I have only had the chance to read about it (hint hint Polk).

maximillian

I don't know if I agree entirely, Polk still offers a variety of good speakers for sale. You can get the monitor line on a budget and they sound pretty good; I've got a pair of TSi100's for PC speakers and they sound great for their price. Then if you know someone with a little more money then get them to buy used LSi's, specifically the 7's. Then you have LSiM's for the more serious listener. That's quite a bit of variety already without looking at their other offerings. However, I agree about the RTi line - I was never a fan.

They have many other niche speakers... blackstone, soundbars, Atrium series. Their subwoofers were not that great before but their micro subs are better. Although I still prefer subs from other vendors.

Polk is expanding their headphone market and their WiFi product offering. This is to capture the lower end mobile market. Other companies are pursuing this market too since it is the current expanding market. Then I am sure Polk will work on (upgrade) their general speaker offering overall. So I wouldn't bet against them. If Polk fails as a business I won't blame it on their product offering but on their marketing and management.

nspindel

I made this comment earlier in another thread, I'll make it again here. This forum has been great for Polk in terms of selling replacement tweeters for 25-year old speakers, but I don't think that's a big line item in their business plan. The forum has likely made far more money for Soniccradt than it has for Polk. Call me conspiratorial, but after 20+ years of working for big corporations, these forum changes (especially the broken links) surprise me less and less the more I think about it.

Dennis Gardner

If I am correct.....there isn't any current speaker in the lineup other than a couple bluetooth models that are new from their R&D department. All the above mentioned items in this thread whether good or bad were the last of MPs efforts. The Blackstone and LSiM were already in the pipeline. I simply haven't seen anything pointing to HT/music speakers being introduced since the buyout and the Reference Series in the car audio line being shuttered killed any cred they had built with the car audio circuit guys.

If my statements are incorrect, will someone with credentials let me know so that I can ask for an edit so that bad info doesn't make issues for anyone? I don't think my timelines or statements are out of line though.

F1nut

You guys crack me up with this stale talk. Change for the sake of change is not always a good thing. Look at what happened with this forum.

tonyb

I don't know if I'd call it "stale" talk Jess. More so aggravation from Polk loyalists who see them slipping into the abyss of mediocrity. What used to set them apart was their price to performance ratio, not so much anymore.

oldrocker

Just the rambling from an old guy who probably just needs some more fiber in my diet.

Easy Runnin

Nspindel is correct. Think about the time line. Back in 2006 the company has been around 30+ years, it’s pretty mature, the economy is moving and Matt’s financial advisors are probably telling him it might be a good time to convert what you have created into cash.

So in come the fast talkers in suits. They are willing to help out. Matt gets some cash and with their experience and business savvy they are going to streamline the business and make it more profitable than a bunch of guys who got lucky ever could. Unfortunately these suits are judged by quarters and not by years. A couple years later things start to tank. Their plan isn’t working so they decide to just hold on for a little while. A little while passes and things haven’t really improved. Now they are scrambling to save themselves.

The ship is sinking. The guys steering the ship can’t see land. They can hear the bilge pump running and they know it is going to drain the battery. Once the battery dies they are in real trouble because the GPS will shut down and they don’t know how to use a compass.

Hopefully, most of the shareholders are steering the boat.

maximillian

Did they change any staffing at Polk HQ, specifically the engineering department? If not, then you can still hope for good things.

There will be a period of down-time when a company gets sold. Once the transition is complete they could get back to making great products. It may be possible that they won't, but no new products in this short time doesn't mean no more new products ever.

Used speakers are good for a company, although not directly. A good used market offers two things: 1) At the beginning of a product it enables people to try out the product knowing that there's a good chance they can flip it and still recoup some of their investment. 2) As a product matures it enables people to buy used higher end speakers to try out. This can open up further sales. For example, I bought my first pair of LSi's this way. Then I liked them enough that I also bought other LSi speakers (some new and some used) . I now have 3 LSi setups because of the initial first used pair. It's basically a marketing tool to enable people to get into the brand. Along the way I also bought RTi speakers but eventually sold them (again knowing #1 was an option for me). Besides selling some of the Polks I didn't want I also gave 4 pair of speakers away to friends. I don't know if any of it lead to sales, but any chance to get Polk into people's homes is a good thing.

So I would not say that used is "no good". Done properly it can help push the brand and thus more sales. Happy customers are a great marketing asset.

nspindel

To an extent you're right, to an extent you're wrong. A second hand used market can be great for a manufacturer. Look at Apple. How many people are out there selling their two-year old iPhones into the used market so they can apply that cash towards buying a new iPhone? Tons. And then people who couldn't afford to buy their way into the Apple ecosystem with a new $650+ iPhone are now customers of Apple using an older device that they bought for $200. Apple wins.

In the Polk case, that's not quite the same analogy. Sure, if you buy a lower end current model and like it enough, and sell them so you can upgrade, that's a win-win for Polk. But when the thriving used market for Polk speakers is centered around 25-year old models, long since out of production, that's a different story. How much money did Polk make when I sold my original CRS+'s and bought my 2B's? Zero. How much did they make when I sold those 2B's and bought 1C's? Zero. What about when I sold the 1C's and went back to CRS+'s? Zilch. Soniccraft, on the other hand, did very well!

MP obviously had a love in his heart for the SDA line, and clearly enjoys seeing them continue to be so highly admired. But when you replace MP with a corporate board, well.... There's no more sentimentality towards vintage products, the only thing they're going to care about is growing revenues and pleasing their shareholders.

I know little to nothing about Polk's current production loudspeaker models, and I've been a regular follower/poster on this board for almost 10 years. If I were looking to get another pair of speakers today, I'd be perusing Craigslist looking for 25-year old Polks. Then I'd be calling Polk to buy replacement tweeters, and that's pretty much it. Enthusiasts like me were appealing to Matt when he owned the company, but not to a board of directors.

hochpt21

nspindel wrote: »

I made this comment earlier in another thread, I'll make it again here. This forum has been great for Polk in terms of selling replacement tweeters for 25-year old speakers, but I don't think that's a big line item in their business plan. The forum has likely made far more money for Soniccradt than it has for Polk. Call me conspiratorial, but after 20+ years of working for big corporations, these forum changes (especially the broken links) surprise me less and less the more I think about it.

I agree with you to a point, but strictly from joining this forum and enjoying this place, I have purchased exclusively Polk speakers over the past 5 years. 3 pairs of speakers and 2 center channels were purchased new.

WilliamM2

DEI Holding has been as low as 9 cents a share in 2009. Currently at $4.51, maybe the changes are working for them.

finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=DEIX+Interactive#%7B%22range%22%3A%2210y%22%2C%22scale%22%3A%22linear%22%7D

tonyb

WilliamM2 wrote: »

DEI Holding has been as low as 9 cents a share in 2009. Currently at $4.51, maybe the changes are working for them.

finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=DEIX+Interactive#%7B%22range%22%3A%2210y%22%2C%22scale%22%3A%22linear%22%7D

Only someone who knows zip about financials would make that statement. Giving your own link...."working for them" is certainly subjective. You fail to mention their high point as opposed to where they are now. You also fail to mention their stock has been flat for the last 3 years....not to mention earnings per share.

What you are witnessing is company execs who come in and do whatever it takes to make the share price go up....because when they bail, they'll cash out their stock options from the low point to whatever it is when they leave.....regardless if the company gets destroyed in the process. It all looks good on paper....though that link doesn't exactly show progress.

DEI HOLDINGS buys companies to hold under one roof, puts whoever they deem can move that companies stock price, overvalue the companies, then dump them. That's it, that's all they are concerned about....making the money while the so called Ivy leaguers get top salaries, golden parachutes, and stock options.

Citibank has also tripled it's share price since their lows in 2008.....would anyone say Citibank is "doing something right"?

WilliamM2

tonyb wrote: »

Only someone who knows zip about financials would make that statement. Giving your own link...."working for them" is certainly subjective. You fail to mention their high point as opposed to where they are now. You also fail to mention their stock has been flat for the last 3 years....not to mention earnings per share.

So it was better a 9 cents then? OK. Either way, I doubt this forum has had any impact on the bottom line, if it did, they would invest more into it.

Many companies have regained less since 2009.

tonyb

No, it was better at 16-17 bucks. Did you even look at the graph ? Every company took a hit during the 07-08 downfall.....are you saying DEI is somehow different ? Just about every company has also come back from that too. Pay attention to the stock market at all ?

In some cases....some...companies owe that rebound to doing better themselves. While others simply did whatever they could to cut the bottom line...as in lay off millions of people nationwide, cut benefits, stagnate wages. Is that your idea of "doing better"? PLUS....what company exec isn't jumping for joy to have one of their costliest benefits transferred from their bottom line to the general publics, so their financials will look even better and stock prices will then do what....go up. Hello or should I say goodbye to employer funded healthcare benefits.

WilliamM2

Thanks captain obvious. Yes I know it was higher before that. At one time they were mostly into car audio, which is just about dead at this point. I believe they sold all that off. They are lucky they aren't bankrupt.

Easy Runnin

They didn't sell it off and their stock is no longer publicly traded. DEI is organized in two divisions, Sound United (audio) and Directed (vehicle security and remote start systems).

WilliamM2

Easy Runnin wrote: »

They didn't sell it off and their stock is no longer publicly traded. DEI is organized in two divisions, Sound United (audio) and Directed (vehicle security and remote start systems).

Right, they sold off the car audio companies, like Orion and a few others.

Jstas

Matt Polk retired. He didn't do it to cash out on his investment. He did it because he's allowed to and he put in the work to be so successful to be able to have a large buyout. He's a success story. He also went through great lengths to make sure the people in his company were taken care of when he departed. It may not seem so rosy to some but he did way more than other head honchos I've seen.

So did Al.

That's actually kinda insulting as I had the opportunity to meet both and even got drunk with Al on more than one PF. Both of them were real, intelligent, kind and caring people who felt they didn't deserve the admiration and respect they got from the people on this forum. They both just saw themselves as guys trying to run a business, no different from anyone else and to reduce them to some money grubbing automaton....yeah, you don't get it if you think that's what happened.

JimKellyfan

I bought polk's because a friend had em and they sounded amazing. Don't even remember what they were, other than bookshelf speakers, and was back in late 80's early 90's. Then, I priced them. Got mine as an entry level audiophile, monitors. I will always be an entry level audiophile, because my hearing is starting to fade with age, but even if not, I am only going to spend X amount on stuff. Period. I would love to have better, so long as I can get it cheap. I would think, if you keep enhancing top of the line products, the lower end stuff is merely old top end stuff, and the demographic balance can be had. Ehh, pipe dream, but that way top audiophiles get what is great and now, and cheap **** like me get top of the line stuff second hand, the way we like to get smokin deals. It depends who breads your butter. Top line buyers or entry level cheapskates ?

JimKellyfan

So long as I can afford to buy em and buy em when I need em, I will always only buy one speaker type. Polks. I am agreeing on the sub quality. Ehh, they will figure it out.

tonyb

John, in case you missed it, I wasn't referring to Matt Polk...or Al, as money grubbing executives. On the contrary, they have a passion for audio along with being businessmen.

You know the old saying....do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life. That's a far cry from the bean counters that run a lot of companies these days. Their only passion is money....and sadly it shows.

Msabot1

Passion for audio is what got those guys in the business in the first place..that and a busted speaker contract that got them stuck with their inventory...they used that to their advantage..filled a nitch in the speaker industry that remained pretty constant for darn near 30 years...my hat is off to the founders...a well engineered product that could appeal to any price range...a legacy....

cnh

Speaker specialists?

OK. Offer cheaper, better SUBS!

Produce a $200 a pair bookie as good or better than A Jones' bookies (the M, TSI, and even RtiA1s do not compete well there).

LSIM 703s, bring down the PRICE. At 1500 they are a "good" speaker. But there is a lot to compete with in the 1500-2000 range.

At $1000 or less they are great!

New RTI series is in order. One that has more efficient TOTL towers, robust sound that can do both HT and Music!

Do you really think you're going to compete with the Primo Headphone manufacturers? At their prices? Think again!

Wireless offerings. Sure, but EVERYBODY IS DOING THAT! So what DISTINGUISHES YOURS??

Seems to me like Polk is stabbing here and poking there: Game Headsets, Desktop (slightly overpriced under performing) systems, wireless units, wireless speakers (all still present problems and the tech DOES NOT produce OPTIMAL sound-no one's offered BEST sounding systems with wireless tech IMO). Oh! Oh! Oh! And let's not forget about the UBIQUITOUS sound-bar systems. Which manufacturer does NOT have ONE or MORE of them?

The only Polk product I would buy are a pair of 703s but NOT at MSRP!

Headphones, I prefer my AKG Q701s. Desktop, I prefer my vintage Rshack System Seven and old Minimus 7s in Walnut veneer. Cheap 3.1 HT, I prefer the A Jones R/C/L and I actually use a Polk PSW12 (passable for the basement and price).

I will say that at current prices a set of M-70s and accompanying M surrounds are still a TOP value for budget HT. But you need some POWER to get them going. And they're sold WELL BELOW their original MSRP.

So where does that leave us?

We have a SLICK but content free Forum. New products of the mediocre variety for a new generation of ipoders and iphone geeks? A GOOD line of new speakers in the LSIMs that need to be reduced a little in MSRP so as to provide more value to sound benefit.

Really, it's not Rocket Science. But if all you want to do is look at your Facebook page and see how many times it's been friended that does NOT necessarily translate into product sales and profits.

But what do I know? I'm old enough to get those AARP supplements! lol

On the other hand, I'm probably as old as MANY CEOs? And so are a lot of the guys above. So think about that! BTW, I've worked with a few CEOs many years ago, and WOW what an eye-opener that was, some of those guys had NO CLUE! PETER PRINCIPLE anyone? I don't know who the current CEO of this conglomerate is, but I wonder if his name is "Peter"? lol

cnh